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2006-07-24 10:37:46
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6794|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

GATOR591957 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

'Faith requires ignorance'.

Merriam Webster Definitions:

Main Entry: Faith
Function: noun
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

Given what is in bold above I believe that to be truly faithful one would have to ignore evidence presented that is contrary to whatever it is you have faith in. Hence generally, faith requires ignorance.
Back from a nice weekend and into a deep subject already.

Cameron, I would pose a question back to you.  Is faith ignorance as you say, or a deeper understanding of what is possible.  You see many geniuses were thought of as village idiots in their day.
Yeah but those once thought of as idiots were forward thinking,  they believed in something man hadn't thought of or invented yet.  Believers in religion are the complete opposite, accepting notion which was dreamt up thousandss of years ago.

I believe absolute faith require ignorance.  Someone who believes that the Earth was formed after what archaeologists describe as the first agricultural revolution can be decribed as ignorant, of course.  However, most people that call themselves religious have a grip of reality.  Their "faith" has evolved in line with agreed morality of the day (strange that eh?), so that now women have equal rights and gays can live in peace (in most religions anyway).  They cherry pick from their Holy book to suit the modern day and aren't being ignorant to the things that man has proven.  They are only having an opinion on the present unproven and thus can't be ignorant as there is a chance that they are right (no matter how slim!). 

There will always be religion as long as there are things we can't disprove and how can you confute the existence of an invisible, intangible, impalpable and above all, unpredictable being?

Quote from Richard Dawkins,

"Thousands of years ago, we all believed in many gods, like Thor, the god of thunder.  Over time we have crossed these off....well, some of us choose to go one god further"
2006-07-24 12:01:05
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6871

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

'Faith requires ignorance'.

Merriam Webster Definitions:

Main Entry: Faith
Function: noun
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

Given what is in bold above I believe that to be truly faithful one would have to ignore evidence presented that is contrary to whatever it is you have faith in. Hence generally, faith requires ignorance.
Back from a nice weekend and into a deep subject already.

Cameron, I would pose a question back to you.  Is faith ignorance as you say, or a deeper understanding of what is possible.  You see many geniuses were thought of as village idiots in their day.
Yeah but those once thought of as idiots were forward thinking,  they believed in something man hadn't thought of or invented yet.  Believers in religion are the complete opposite, accepting notion which was dreamt up thousandss of years ago.

I believe absolute faith require ignorance.  Someone who believes that the Earth was formed after what archaeologists describe as the first agricultural revolution can be decribed as ignorant, of course.  However, most people that call themselves religious have a grip of reality.  Their "faith" has evolved in line with agreed morality of the day (strange that eh?), so that now women have equal rights and gays can live in peace (in most religions anyway).  They cherry pick from their Holy book to suit the modern day and aren't being ignorant to the things that man has proven.  They are only having an opinion on the present unproven and thus can't be ignorant as there is a chance that they are right (no matter how slim!). 

There will always be religion as long as there are things we can't disprove and how can you confute the existence of an invisible, intangible, impalpable and above all, unpredictable being?

Quote from Richard Dawkins,

"Thousands of years ago, we all believed in many gods, like Thor, the god of thunder.  Over time we have crossed these off....well, some of us choose to go one god further"
Problem here is neither idea can be proven, so is Cameron's and your faith in your idea require ignorance as well?
2006-07-24 12:11:19
alpinestar
Member
+304|6840|New York City baby.
Following the events that are going on in Lebanon, my conclusion is this if Zionist Jew believes that land was given to him by god and kills innocent children in order to persuade his Faith, yes it does require ignorance. Im surprised because we live in the age of technology and science yet we happen to believe in scribblings that were writtend few thousand years ago (at least majority of us)
2006-07-24 13:38:31
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6794|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

GATOR591957 wrote:

Problem here is neither idea can be proven, so is Cameron's and your faith in your idea require ignorance as well?
Niether of what can be proven?
2006-07-24 13:40:55
AAFCptKabbom
Member
+127|6902|WPB, FL. USA
Faith requires absolutely nothing.  However, faith {as in the religious text you placed it in} asks and doesn't tell you to do anything more than trust and believe in something...   It's ones own choice or not - respect it.

The problems we are having today, with those who claim to have religious faith and who are using it to harm others, is that of religious distortion. 

For those who keep creating these threads you are truly the ignorant ones {look it up before you flame :}  }.  You can choose to or not to have religious faith and thats fine however, at least educate yourself on facts as well as show a little respect for those who believe and trust those who drew on the walls in the caves thousands of years ago     {keep it up and we'll take your crayons away}

A note for Alpinestar - It would be very wrong of me to call you the biggest arse and most fooked-up person I ever wasted my time reading posts from as well as being completely inaccurate, biased, spinning misinformation, prejudiced, disrespectful, embarrassment to N.Y. and North America, one who doesn't use any facts within context, anti-president, one who suffers from lack of oxygen because their head is so far up their arse they'll never see daylight, and is a poster child of why people hate the U.S.
Since I'm not that kind of person I will owe your posts up to ignorance. However, I'll give you one thing - you are consistent!   

I mean that in the most respectful and nicest of ways ,
Kaboom.

ps - Alpinestar, I looked-up your name and the definition read "leading cause of child abuse" 
2006-07-24 13:55:05
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7016|PNW

alpinestar wrote:

Following the events that are going on in Lebanon, my conclusion is this if Zionist Jew believes that land was given to him by god and kills innocent children in order to persuade his Faith, yes it does require ignorance. Im surprised because we live in the age of technology and science yet we happen to believe in scribblings that were writtend few thousand years ago (at least majority of us)
I don't know about all of that, but maybe you should have believed in the scribblings on the blackboard that were written in English class.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-24 13:55:20)

2006-07-24 14:42:16
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6771|Portland, OR USA
funny thing about faith.  It is required to believe anything and further any pursuit, logical or otherwise.  You have to have faith that those teaching you are feeding you proper information.  You have to have faith that the conclusions we have come to as a society before you are correct.  You have to have faith that the methods and manner with which you engage in critical thinking is not simply programmed to further the conclusions already arrived at rather than potentially challenge them.  True, strong, and meaningful faith can only exist within a wealth of knowledge.
2006-07-24 14:47:58
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6773|Global Command
Hard to argue against that one folks!
2006-07-24 14:51:37
alpinestar
Member
+304|6840|New York City baby.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

alpinestar wrote:

Following the events that are going on in Lebanon, my conclusion is this if Zionist Jew believes that land was given to him by god and kills innocent children in order to persuade his Faith, yes it does require ignorance. Im surprised because we live in the age of technology and science yet we happen to believe in scribblings that were writtend few thousand years ago (at least majority of us)
I don't know about all of that, but maybe you should have believed in the scribblings on the blackboard that were written in English class.
Yeah Ok so I made a few mispellings that's because I write fast and sometimes I will misplace a few letters, Im also Multilingual so english is my 3rd language and that might contribute to me sometimes misspelling a word or two and no I never had misfortune to study with you

Last edited by alpinestar (2006-07-24 14:53:21)

2006-07-25 17:44:44
cosmichippo
Member
+5|6730|New Brunswick, Canada

TheCanadianTerrorist wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

"religion is a crutch for the mentally weak"..............................
It's true.
What kind of statement is that? Nice feedback to back your "opinion". lol  What an ignorant statement.

I'm Religious and have a strong faith in Jesus..and my IQ is 136 at 28 years old. To say that I am mentally weak is rogue and ignorant. To imply that anybody who is religious is mentally weak is absurd, ostentatious, self-absorbed, and very narrow minded.
**Disgusted**

Last edited by cosmichippo (2006-07-25 17:51:38)

2006-07-25 17:48:23
cosmichippo
Member
+5|6730|New Brunswick, Canada

PuckMercury wrote:

funny thing about faith.  It is required to believe anything and further any pursuit, logical or otherwise.  You have to have faith that those teaching you are feeding you proper information.  You have to have faith that the conclusions we have come to as a society before you are correct.  You have to have faith that the methods and manner with which you engage in critical thinking is not simply programmed to further the conclusions already arrived at rather than potentially challenge them.  True, strong, and meaningful faith can only exist within a wealth of knowledge.
I disagree..

It all sounds so sociopath, no feeling or emotions. ..where is your soul? Your being? Explain that to me..Innate awareness of wright and wrong, good and evil. If you can't believe in your own soul, I'm afraid you sold it long ago.

Last edited by cosmichippo (2006-07-25 17:52:31)

2006-07-25 18:07:32
CO05
Member
+3|6768
There are things that logic and science can't explain. I agree with evolution, but what created very first atom?
2006-07-25 18:17:51
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6771|Portland, OR USA

cosmichippo wrote:

PuckMercury wrote:

funny thing about faith.  It is required to believe anything and further any pursuit, logical or otherwise.  You have to have faith that those teaching you are feeding you proper information.  You have to have faith that the conclusions we have come to as a society before you are correct.  You have to have faith that the methods and manner with which you engage in critical thinking is not simply programmed to further the conclusions already arrived at rather than potentially challenge them.  True, strong, and meaningful faith can only exist within a wealth of knowledge.
I disagree..

It all sounds so sociopath, no feeling or emotions. ..where is your soul? Your being? Explain that to me..Innate awareness of wright and wrong, good and evil. If you can't believe in your own soul, I'm afraid you sold it long ago.
I'm afraid I have absolutely no clue how that applies to either what I said or the thread.
2006-07-25 19:40:48
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7016|PNW

alpinestar wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

alpinestar wrote:

Following the events that are going on in Lebanon, my conclusion is this if Zionist Jew believes that land was given to him by god and kills innocent children in order to persuade his Faith, yes it does require ignorance. Im surprised because we live in the age of technology and science yet we happen to believe in scribblings that were writtend few thousand years ago (at least majority of us)
I don't know about all of that, but maybe you should have believed in the scribblings on the blackboard that were written in English class.
Yeah Ok so I made a few mispellings that's because I write fast and sometimes I will misplace a few letters, Im also Multilingual so english is my 3rd language and that might contribute to me sometimes misspelling a word or two and no I never had misfortune to study with you
Nor I you, fortunately enough. If you are going to write in English, it is a simple and quick enough matter to drop random capitalization and use a spell checker. I can forgive grammer, with your English being a third language.

If I was going to go argue on a German or French (speaking) forum, I'd do them the courtesy of mastering their language.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-25 19:43:21)

2006-07-25 19:50:55
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6771|Portland, OR USA
I'm as much in favor of "while in Rome" and basic grammar as the next guy


but mastering English?  I've met few people who can speak as well as I and I haven't "mastered' the language.  If it's obvious that they're not a native English speaker and you can see the point of the post, give them that benefit of the doubt - seriously.
2006-07-25 23:29:09
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6805

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

If he disliked religions why did Nazis have to sign a form stating that they "believed in God".
I'm not aware of that.  I am aware that he just about banned the Catholic Church.  If they did, it probably had to do with the fact that it gave more power to him.

cosmichippo wrote:

I'm Religious and have a strong faith in Jesus..and my IQ is 136 at 28 years old.
Whilst I agree with in disagreeing with him, your reasoning is poor.  Intelligence does not have to do with mental weakness or otherwise.

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Stop bitching!  You're both right okay.......

A religion is..well obvious and "Jew" defines the person's faith in Judaism so they ARE a religion!!!

A race is a group of people that are a like in physical chracteristics and, in the UK anyway, you can describe someone as having a Jewish nose (like Barry Manilow).  So yes, they can be described as a race as well.......

Do you have a problem with one thing having two descriptions?
I already said that they're both a race and religion, I believe.
2006-07-26 08:13:52
|AIA| DAS
Member
+23|6741|Me Dad's Wilkins
Definitions... Mental- having to do with the mind or intelligence.

Weakness- In quality or state of being weak.

Ergo, the definition of mental weakness is being of weak mind or of weak intelligence.

For example if I were to say:  Bubbalo is mentally weak and adds nothing to this thread.

That would be myself calling him weak minded or un-intlligent.

Just thought I would clear that up. 
2006-07-26 09:46:28
cosmichippo
Member
+5|6730|New Brunswick, Canada

Bubbalo wrote:

Whilst I agree with in disagreeing with him, your reasoning is poor.  Intelligence does not have to do with mental weakness or otherwise.
Actually, quite the contrary; My reasoning was perfectly accurate, ang Intelligence has everything to do with the word mental and plenty of otherwise.
Wikipedia Definition Of Intelligence:
Intelligence is a general mental capability that involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn. In psychology, the study of intelligence is related to the study of personality but is not the same as creativity, personality, character, or wisdom.

Last edited by cosmichippo (2006-07-26 09:49:50)

2006-07-26 10:48:29
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6871

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

Problem here is neither idea can be proven, so is Cameron's and your faith in your idea require ignorance as well?
Niether of what can be proven?
Evolution or the Biblical version of creation.
2006-07-26 11:04:24
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6799

GATOR591957 wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

Problem here is neither idea can be proven, so is Cameron's and your faith in your idea require ignorance as well?
Niether of what can be proven?
Evolution or the Biblical version of creation.
One argument on that would be that at least there is some evidence supporting the theory of evolutoin whereas there is none supporting the biblical version of creation.
2006-07-26 11:06:39
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6793|Southeastern USA
but then who is to say that evolution is not a tool of "god", perhaps the grand design was to include this mechanism for unsupervised adaptation to the ever changing environs
2006-07-26 11:08:25
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6799

kr@cker wrote:

but then who is to say that evolution is not a tool of "god", perhaps the grand design was to include this mechanism for unsupervised adaptation to the ever changing environs
I think there's another thread on this exact topic....
2006-07-26 12:01:34
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6871

CameronPoe wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:


Niether of what can be proven?
Evolution or the Biblical version of creation.
One argument on that would be that at least there is some evidence supporting the theory of evolutoin whereas there is none supporting the biblical version of creation.
Did you ever stop and think that maybe Adam and Eve didn't look exactly like Adam and Eve in the books.  They may have looked more like Chiimps than humans?  Something to think about.
2006-07-26 12:02:51
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6799

GATOR591957 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

Evolution or the Biblical version of creation.
One argument on that would be that at least there is some evidence supporting the theory of evolutoin whereas there is none supporting the biblical version of creation.
Did you ever stop and think that maybe Adam and Eve didn't look exactly like Adam and Eve in the books.  They may have looked more like Chiimps than humans?  Something to think about.
You neglect to mention that the bible is written by man. Are you now suggesting that perhaps apes wrote the bible? Or that they had been handed down knowledge along the generations by their ape ancestors? Also - in reality they wouldn't have been apes they would more probably have been single-cell asexual lifeforms.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-26 12:04:11)

2006-07-26 12:10:46
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6980|Salt Lake City

kr@cker wrote:

but then who is to say that evolution is not a tool of "god", perhaps the grand design was to include this mechanism for unsupervised adaptation to the ever changing environs
But that goes against Genesis.

 

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