BF2S Forums Christianity

Vub wrote:

Have a look at the Earth, it is "perfect" to harbour life. A few thousand kilometres nearer or closer to the Sun would turn us into Mars or the Moon or Venus, which are lifeless. So is it by pure chance, that surrounding this yellow star, a planet with all the chemicals and conditions which are essential for life to begin, grouped together? The air temperature, the vast oceans of water, the oxygen in the atmosphere, the ozone which blocks out UVb and UVc, and the carbon and nitrogen and complex carbohydrates and proteins and DNA: the chances of all that is infinitesimal. These conditions were set in place when God created the Earth.

Another thing, there are some extremely complex and ingenious structures in the world, such as the eye, which couldn't have developed out of random mutations.

Ok, I don't know if you know this, but Mars also had an atmosphere, water, and presumable small forms of life. But because of its gravity, its magnetic field was weak, and couldn't keep the solar wind from ripping away the atmosphere, so the water dried up. So, now we have 2 planets, in about the same area from the medium sized star. The "goldilocks zone". Catch my drift?

Also, you imply that the moon is at a different distance from the Sun than the Earth. You imply if the Earth were at that distance, it would be lifeless. Well we don't know the answer because it doesn't happen, but the moon did not form from particles collecting in a seperate ring. Billions of years a go a mars-sized object smashed into a plasma-earth, blasting chusks of it that stayed in a ring around Earth and collected into the moon. No atmosphere created. Go see "Cosmic Collisions" a planetarium show running everywhere.

Why does the existence of God have anything to do with life on other planets?

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

Certainly in the UK more people convert from christianity to athiesm when they grow up than the other way round.

Be that as it may, I think it's besides the point.  If people convert to Christianity at all ages it's not just a phenomenon that has been perpetuated by foisting it on the youth of the world.

yes of course i am big bird.

JaMDuDe wrote:

It still amazes me how much atheists credit to randomness and still think they are using logic. Like the moon, an object probably a little bigger than mars smashed into earth at just the right time and made a perfect size moon that would stablize earth, control tides, and be just the right distance from earth when humans are around to see perfect eclipses and make scientific discoveries. All at random. Thats just one of many "coincidences" all happening on one planet.

1. Any size moon would control the tides!
2. The Earth isn't completely stabalized. It still precesses every 20,000 years or so.
3. You've got me on the Eclipse part, but so?
4. So you're saying we wouldn't be able to make scientific discoveries if the moon were different? Now you're just babbling...

oh, and to Spark: not to dismiss your argument or anything but uh, life didn't exist before the moon.

Last edited by Daysniper (2006-07-20 14:46:45)

Chuckles wrote:

Daysniper wrote:

JaMDuDe wrote:

It still amazes me how much atheists credit to randomness and still think they are using logic. Like the moon, an object probably a little bigger than mars smashed into earth at just the right time and made a perfect size moon that would stablize earth, control tides, and be just the right distance from earth when humans are around to see perfect eclipses and make scientific discoveries. All at random. Thats just one of many "coincidences" all happening on one planet.

1. Any size moon would control the tides!
2. The Earth isn't completely stabalized. It still precesses every 20,000 years or so.
3. You've got me on the Eclipse part, but so?
4. So you're saying we wouldn't be able to make scientific discoveries if the moon were different? Now you're just babbling...

oh, and to Spark: not to dismiss your argument or anything but uh, life didn't exist before the moon.

I'm still confused as to how any of this really advances either side of the original argument.

I never said it was supposed to advance either side did I? I forget what the argument is anyway!
JaMDuDe and I have had a history in this sort of thing...

Last edited by Daysniper (2006-07-20 16:23:55)

what?

Daysniper, what do you mean you have history in this sort of thing? You seem to not know much about it. If the moon were smaller we would have a bigger tilt and the northern hemisphere would be scorched. If the tilt were smaller we wouldnt have monsoons that bring seasonal rain to many places. I never said if the moon were a different size we wouldnt be able to make any scientific discoveries. The moon used to be much closer to earth. Humans seem to hit earth at just the right time when the moon is just the right distance from earth so we can see perfect eclipses and make scientific discoveries like the theory of general relativity. You were right about the stablizing part, even though i never said the moon keeps earth perfectly stable forever. Earths tilt varies from 22.1 to 24.5 degrees every several thousand years. If the tilt were higher or lower we probably wouldnt be here.

Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-07-20 17:03:01)

JaMDuDe wrote:

Daysniper, what do you mean you have history in this sort of thing? You seem to not know much about it. If the moon were smaller we would have a bigger tilt and the northern hemisphere would be scorched. If the tilt were smaller we wouldnt have monsoons that bring seasonal rain to many places. I never said if the moon were a different size we wouldnt be able to make any scientific discoveries. The moon used to be much closer to earth. Humans seem to hit earth at just the right time when the moon is just the right distance from earth so we can see perfect eclipses and make scientific discoveries like the theory of general relativity. You were right about the stablizing part, even though i never said the moon keeps earth perfectly stable forever. Earths tilt varies from 22.1 to 24.5 degrees every several thousand years. If the tilt were higher or lower we probably wouldnt be here.

Sorry, you misunderstood. I mean you and I have a history of arguing and not advancing any points!

Last edited by Daysniper (2006-07-20 17:16:16)

oh, sorry.  There was a program on the moons of the Sol system which detailed exactly what you just said.  The other points are other bits of scientific evidence.

Daysniper wrote:

JaMDuDe wrote:

It still amazes me how much atheists credit to randomness and still think they are using logic. Like the moon, an object probably a little bigger than mars smashed into earth at just the right time and made a perfect size moon that would stablize earth, control tides, and be just the right distance from earth when humans are around to see perfect eclipses and make scientific discoveries. All at random. Thats just one of many "coincidences" all happening on one planet.

1. Any size moon would control the tides!
2. The Earth isn't completely stabalized. It still precesses every 20,000 years or so.
3. You've got me on the Eclipse part, but so?
4. So you're saying we wouldn't be able to make scientific discoveries if the moon were different? Now you're just babbling...

oh, and to Spark: not to dismiss your argument or anything but uh, life didn't exist before the moon.

says who? maybe not on planet earth, but possibly anywhere else: mars, venus, another solarsystem, another galaxy...

JaMDuDe wrote:

Daysniper, what do you mean you have history in this sort of thing? You seem to not know much about it. If the moon were smaller we would have a bigger tilt and the northern hemisphere would be scorched. If the tilt were smaller we wouldnt have monsoons that bring seasonal rain to many places. I never said if the moon were a different size we wouldnt be able to make any scientific discoveries. The moon used to be much closer to earth. Humans seem to hit earth at just the right time when the moon is just the right distance from earth so we can see perfect eclipses and make scientific discoveries like the theory of general relativity. You were right about the stablizing part, even though i never said the moon keeps earth perfectly stable forever. Earths tilt varies from 22.1 to 24.5 degrees every several thousand years. If the tilt were higher or lower we probably wouldnt be here.

Humans didn't "seem to hit earth right at just the right time"
The mutations, later to become humans, evolved then, because it was opportune for them, and the atmosphere or whatever was good for them... It was not an utter coincidence

Konfusion0 wrote:

OK, I will think in your way: God created man. God created free will. God, therefore, directly or indirectly created science. Why would god create something that contradicts him? Why would he make it so that the majority of humanity don't believe in him?
Furthermore, I still 'believe in' science... It's the only 'theory' that appeals both to my intellect and reasoning...

Well, you said God created free will, so obviously He knew that that could lead to disbelief, yet he did it anyway.  Free will also gave us other ways to sin and not follow His word.  But it's our choice.  He wants us to make the correct choice.

Personally I've never thought science contradicted the existence of God as much as people would like to believe.