Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6850|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Jets vs. AA was fine in 1.2, I had no problem shooting them down, they got nerfed because some crybabies couldn't handle the pressure.

We don't want dogfighting to be easy, quite the contrary, we want it to be fun again.

I wouldn't mind if AA missiles would be removed at all, the fun behind dogfights is being able to lead with the machinegun and chase the enemy fighter accurately.
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|6693
Only if your talking about removing the jet missles unless your going to remove the bombs from the jets if you get rid of ground AA
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

TriggerHappy998 wrote:

SargeV1.4 wrote:

TriggerHappy998 wrote:

They complain a whole lot more now.
no shit. maybe it's because dogfighting has been removed and the jets unbalanced? We have every reason to complain.
And everyone before 1.2 wasn't allowed to complain? You're peeing on your own feet Sarge.

Adapt and survive.
I don't give a toss about the AA, it's dogfighting I want back. heck, make stingers one shot one kills as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, and I have adapted. It seems that 99% of the pilots have not and now we're left with the skillless morons you get on pubs.

Last edited by SargeV1.4 (2006-07-20 12:20:24)

https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Bernadictus
Moderator
+1,055|6744

SargeV1.4 wrote:

Remember those good ol' days before 1.2? Where dogfighting meant chasing another jet around the map, trying to gun him down? Man, that was so much fun. You could go any server with a jet map, start flying, and have a real dogfight with someone. With some luck you might met a similarly skilled pilot and you could spend half the round chasing each other. Lots of pilots actually knew what they were doing, checking their rear, getting both bombs on right on the turret of an enemy tank, and doing some good maneauvering.

Now compare that to aviation in BF2 post 1.2:

'Dogfights' between average players last about 20 seconds. People don't have a f*cking clue what they're doing, incapable of basic things such as landing, using guns, bombing within 15 meters of their target, or actually doing something else than constantly looping to lose their opponent. And of course, dogfights now are purely missles, and missles only.  To top it all off, one jet has become supreme to everything else, the almighty J-10. The majority of the time that you're flying a J-10, your opponent will be in an F-35b, the jet most succeptable to missles. Now maps like Wake Island, Dragon Valley, or Dalian Plant have become a game of 'kill as many unlucky soldiers on the carrier with my jet that cannot get shot down by 99% of all pilots'.
Any skill that pilots had before 1.2 seems to have dissapeared since then. As I said before, looping endlessly is all that people do to shake a jet. Oh, a few clever ones might have figured out that flying high gives them a speed boost. yay. They never check their six anymore either. Nor do they ever use bomb mode while flying, as why would you want to go away from your almighty missles? I can simply fly behind an enemy jet for the entire round, and they'd never notice.
And of course, the AA is still useless as ever. But, as was to be expected, pilots still get shot down regularly and call the AA overpowered. Do I need to explain this? I sure hope not.

Surely all the skill that was present before 1.2 can't have just dissapeared?

What the hell has happened to aviation since 1.2?!

ANOTHER COMMON MISCONCEPTION: THE MiG-29 AND THE F-18 ARE BALANCED.

NEIN. The MiG turns faster than the f-18, and in a fight between SKILLED pilots, the MiG pilot will win. Sure, the F-18 can dodge missles, but a good pilot in a MiG WON'T NEED TO
All pilots got scared since I began raping the skies with the AA-vehicles. That is the answer to this monumental question. NEXT>
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

Bernadictus wrote:

All pilots got scared since I began raping the skies with the AA-vehicles. That is the answer to this monumental question. NEXT>
Any half-decent pilot won't get shot down by AA, no matter how accurate it is.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
antin0de
Member
+44|6674|SL,UT
The Havok is totally better than the Cobra.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

antin0de wrote:

The Havok is totally better than the Cobra.
it's easier to rape infantry in havok, granted. but that's it. Got anything else off-topic to say? PM me, then.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6850|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Cobra is smaller and more manouvreble and the FFARs shoot straight. Better against tanks and other aerial vehicles.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660
ahem.. back on topic please.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6850|Reykjavík, Iceland.
I like hijacking.

So anyway, what are the chances DICE will listen to our moan? None.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

PBAsydney wrote:

I like hijacking.

So anyway, what are the chances DICE will listen to our moan? None.
that wasn't the goddamn point of this thread for crying out loud
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
tehmoogles
Don't touch the pom-pom!
+7|6717
Sarge v1.4, I have to say that your signature is HORRIBLY ironic.

On topic, I'm crap in jets, I can't bomb within 15 metres of my target. I don't know how.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6628|London, England
The only problem pre-1.2 is that pilots didn't even face each other. Regardless of whether it took skill to take someone down or not wasn't the problem. They didn't even regard each other as a proper threat, because shit was so weak, and continued whoring the ground. Really fucking stupid and 90% of all pilots did that. I don't see where the skill is involved in going for ground forces and ignoring planes because they weren't a threat. Fuck sakes. Some of you pilots want things so easy. Yes the true pilots out there don't like this new type of play, maybe that's because they don't know how to avoid the other fucking aircraft, because all the time they were flying pre-1.2 they never worried about them because they were nearly harmless to them and so fucking easy to evade.

Look at the big picture, the ground forces were being seriously screwed and their was no reward for taking out the planes because it didn't make a fucking difference to the pilots whether there was an enemy plane in the sky first. It was all about who could bomb the best. That's how it was. I don't give a shit about skilled pilots we are talking about the general pubber pilot, who can be a fucking 5 star general (i know that rank didn't exist back then but stick with me) and still do that. Just like how you guys say "i never bunny hop etc..." but still - So many people do it. Just like that.

Now, you have people who have to watch their backs and learn to start evading as soon as they hear lock, they don't say that fighter pilots need quick reaction for nothing now do they. Some of you slow fat arses would probably be to slow to react or something and die. It takes more skill to avoid being seen by another jet and AA and take down jets/AA/ground forces than to fly around like a fucking moron because nothing can touch you.

Only problem right now is the J10 BS, which is like pre 1.2 when in that plane, look at how people are when they fly that plane. No regard for AA or enemy fighters because nothing can touch them, so they fly like idiots who should die but don't because shit is fucked up, just like pre 1.2 pilots. If all planes were like that imagine how nobody would take each other on? Oh wait, it was like that before.

I know, it's fun to waste half an hour taking down a jet with guns, that happened once or twice in my playtime, most people just avoided each other and focused on ground forces as it was easier to take them out and more rewarding.

EDIT: Yes, i fly planes, my KDR isn't that high becuase i don't fucking baserape, i understand why most people hate jets in this game. Most of the pilots are fucktard idiots who baserape to get a high KDR. Fuck off you wanker pilots.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2006-07-20 13:08:53)

PCShooterNoob
Member
+22|6547|Florida
People see that the jets rack up tons of kills and almost no deaths so now everyone hops right on and tries to mimic top gun.  I don't know why more people don't practice flying on single player so only competent pilots are in the sky.  Besides that, as people have mentioned, a good jet pilot won't get TOUCHED by stationary AA guns.  Maybe the Essex, and Mobile AA is pretty good, but, stationary AA is worthless...Jets can drop countermeasures and fly out of range before lock on can be re-established, and both jets and attack copters can just take a stationary AA head on, blow it up, take one shot worth of damage, then go back and get repaired and refitted like nothing ever happened.  Air is overpowered, so there's no reason NOT to to have every idiot run straight for them and give it a shot.
MajorHoulahan_MASH
Member
+31|6729
@PCshooternoob: air is not overpowered anymore in patch 1.3
The only exception being the J10 maybe.
The real problem is/was  most fighter pilots have their mind set on bomb points and K-D ratios too much, and dont put enough effort in taking out enemy fighters AND bombers AND choppers  (!) as  1st priority !
If all jets were really engaged in chasing each other/dogfights all the time, they would not have much time left to pound the ground troops.

If, in addition too that,  more players would  care to become expert AA gunners, airpower would not be a problem at all...

Last edited by MajorHoulahan_MASH (2006-07-21 02:40:01)

Masta_Daco
Member
+39|6743|Amsterdam,The Netherlands
The day before patch 1.2 was released i had my last real killing spree of 42 or 43 in my mig 29 using only mg's to take out f-15's and f-18's in Operation Cleansweep now that gave me a good feeling but now when i kill some1 with my rockets it doesnt feel great it just feel so cheap all thx to EA.
PCShooterNoob
Member
+22|6547|Florida

MajorHoulahan_MASH wrote:

@PCshooternoob: air is not overpowered anymore in patch 1.3
The only exception being the J10 maybe.
The real problem is/was  most fighter pilots have their mind set on bomb points and K-D ratios too much, and dont put enough effort in taking out enemy fighters AND bombers AND choppers  (!) as  1st priority !
If all jets were really engaged in chasing each other/dogfights all the time, they would not have much time left to pound the ground troops.
I dunno, I think we're still going to have to agree to disagree.  I still see pilots getting dozens up dozens of kills and MAYBE 1 or 2 deaths.  Nothing in a game should give anyone that much of an edge.  And again, stationary AA can still be completely and easily avoided or outfought.
MajorHoulahan_MASH
Member
+31|6729
that i agree on , just the one and only manned AA station is not much of a problem.
But, example Wake,  it would be a different ballgame if there were ALWAYS at least  3 AA stations (2 ESSEX turrets plus island AA)  manned simultaniously.
In my experience the jets/choppers on Daqing oilfields and Kubra dam have a much harder time because of the Linebackers and Tanguskas.
PCShooterNoob
Member
+22|6547|Florida
I certainly agree with all of that...Linebackers are my favorite vehicles in the game.  I think if more maps had mobile AA then air superiority would be much less of a factor.  Also...it'd be nice if Mobile AA had more than 3 reloads.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

PCShooterNoob wrote:

People see that the jets rack up tons of kills and almost no deaths so now everyone hops right on and tries to mimic top gun.  I don't know why more people don't practice flying on single player so only competent pilots are in the sky.  Besides that, as people have mentioned, a good jet pilot won't get TOUCHED by stationary AA guns.  Maybe the Essex, and Mobile AA is pretty good, but, stationary AA is worthless...Jets can drop countermeasures and fly out of range before lock on can be re-established, and both jets and attack copters can just take a stationary AA head on, blow it up, take one shot worth of damage, then go back and get repaired and refitted like nothing ever happened.  Air is overpowered, so there's no reason NOT to to have every idiot run straight for them and give it a shot.
precisely.

MajorHoulahan_MASH wrote:

@PCshooternoob: air is not overpowered anymore in patch 1.3
The only exception being the J10 maybe.
The real problem is/was  most fighter pilots have their mind set on bomb points and K-D ratios too much, and dont put enough effort in taking out enemy fighters AND bombers AND choppers  (!) as  1st priority !
If all jets were really engaged in chasing each other/dogfights all the time, they would not have much time left to pound the ground troops.

If, in addition too that,  more players would  care to become expert AA gunners, airpower would not be a problem at all...
Wrong. PCshootnernoob got it right: AA can't touch a clever pilot. Maybe one missle before two bombs drop on their turrets.

Masta_Daco wrote:

The day before patch 1.2 was released i had my last real killing spree of 42 or 43 in my mig 29 using only mg's to take out f-15's and f-18's in Operation Cleansweep now that gave me a good feeling but now when i kill some1 with my rockets it doesnt feel great it just feel so cheap all thx to EA.
You're not forced to use rockets. I usually use a mix of the two, unless if the pilot i'm chasing happens to be a one in a million decent dogfighter, in which case I'll just ask him for a no missles dogfight.

MajorHoulahan_MASH wrote:

that i agree on , just the one and only manned AA station is not much of a problem.
But, example Wake,  it would be a different ballgame if there were ALWAYS at least  3 AA stations (2 ESSEX turrets plus island AA)  manned simultaniously.
In my experience the jets/choppers on Daqing oilfields and Kubra dam have a much harder time because of the Linebackers and Tanguskas.
multiple AA sites are probably the only way to even have a chance of shooting down a decent pilot, but even then you'll need to have good timing.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|6693

MajorHoulahan_MASH wrote:

that i agree on , just the one and only manned AA station is not much of a problem.
But, example Wake,  it would be a different ballgame if there were ALWAYS at least  3 AA stations (2 ESSEX turrets plus island AA)  manned simultaniously.
In my experience the jets/choppers on Daqing oilfields and Kubra dam have a much harder time because of the Linebackers and Tanguskas.
Very true mobile AA does have half a chance against the bombers on those maps.  I hate playing Gulf of Oman on the ground because you have 1 lousy stinger site per capable flag.  The LMG's in the bomber will automatically go to them if they are manned.  I've been shot down once in the MEC bomber by one of those Stinger sites.  They are easy to avoid.  As big as that map is they should 2 mobile AA pieces for the USMC and another for the MEC. 

The Stinger sites are somewhat useful against the choppers.  However a competent chopper crew will easily evade and destroy the AA site before they get shot down. 

I've found the best defense against getting shot down while flying is to have a good wingman.  Yes you have to do a lot of jinking and turning, but if you can lead him to your wingman or better yet get your wingman on his tail as soon as you can you will survive 95% of the time.  A friend on a nearby AA site can work as well, but it is more difficult for him to the get the kill with one of those.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

DSRTurtle wrote:

MajorHoulahan_MASH wrote:

that i agree on , just the one and only manned AA station is not much of a problem.
But, example Wake,  it would be a different ballgame if there were ALWAYS at least  3 AA stations (2 ESSEX turrets plus island AA)  manned simultaniously.
In my experience the jets/choppers on Daqing oilfields and Kubra dam have a much harder time because of the Linebackers and Tanguskas.
Very true mobile AA does have half a chance against the bombers on those maps.  I hate playing Gulf of Oman on the ground because you have 1 lousy stinger site per capable flag.  The LMG's in the bomber will automatically go to them if they are manned.  I've been shot down once in the MEC bomber by one of those Stinger sites.  They are easy to avoid.  As big as that map is they should 2 mobile AA pieces for the USMC and another for the MEC. 

The Stinger sites are somewhat useful against the choppers.  However a competent chopper crew will easily evade and destroy the AA site before they get shot down. 

I've found the best defense against getting shot down while flying is to have a good wingman.  Yes you have to do a lot of jinking and turning, but if you can lead him to your wingman or better yet get your wingman on his tail as soon as you can you will survive 95% of the time.  A friend on a nearby AA site can work as well, but it is more difficult for him to the get the kill with one of those.
but there are 3/4 stinger sites, if all of those are manned it can be quite different.

on the other hand, a really good way to completely f*ck the US over on g'oman is to simply 'surpress' the F-35b's (baserape) while the su-34 turns everything on the beach into mincemeat.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|6693
Sarge.  Even the F35's have a pretty good chance of killing the guys on the fixed AA launchers and getting away.  That map is not very well balanced as for as Ground to Air combat goes.  Air to Air, Air to Ground and Grount to Ground it is ok.  But if you want to kill a jet other than being on the Essex when your getting base raped you really don't have a good shot at it.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6660

DSRTurtle wrote:

Sarge.  Even the F35's have a pretty good chance of killing the guys on the fixed AA launchers and getting away.  That map is not very well balanced as for as Ground to Air combat goes.  Air to Air, Air to Ground and Grount to Ground it is ok.  But if you want to kill a jet other than being on the Essex when your getting base raped you really don't have a good shot at it.
yeah true, I did say myself that a good pilot > any AA. Even with a dozen AA vehicles (ok, maybe a few less, but still) jets will dominate AA. The few times that I've been in AA the only trick that's really worked is to hide in some trees/foliage or somewhere out of sight, and to only get in the vehicle when the jet has its back to me.

which is why it surprises me that so few pilots have the common sense to stay alert for AA, think about where they will be, and not just fly around at 70 meters up getting locked on to by everything
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg

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