Palestine was never a country. Im not saying that the land was never there or that people were not living there but there was no country itself.Fld_Mrsl_Arts wrote:
i think that u must be retarded, i have already definitavely proven that palestine did exist. just look at maps of the area before 1948 when it was taken over. i cant believe u deny its very existance, that is like u saying that America doesnt exist. As for the example, it is called scaling up. and anyway, does it really matter of the scale of the situation, it is still a country, people still live there, so it still matter. and for ur information it is still pretty big, its just coz ur country is nearly the size of a continant (presuming u live in america)
fine, if u wish that to b then that is fine, but does it change the fact that the people that lived there were displaced and put away? no it doesnt
You simply believe I am wrong? Nice job on proving your point. As for my morality issues I could care less what a person like you thinks about my morals. You have repeatedly shown that you are brazenly anti-israel and that hatred blinds you to the facts.CameronPoe wrote:
Like I said. We aren't going to be able to agree on this. I simply believe you are wrong. I also find it odd that while you criticise Hezbollah for killing civilians, you condone Israel killing civilians. You appear to have selective morality issues.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Sorry if you think real life combat is like bf2. Tanks, apcs, choppers, troops all going through Lebanon would cause far more damage than the bombing.CameronPoe wrote:
LOL. If you think that blindly firing missiles at civilian areas and facilities such as airports will result in less civilian casualties than actually engaging the enemy through the crossfires of their rifles then I'm afraid we are never going to be able to agree.
1. Hezbollah runs rampant in Lebanon
2. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon's government.
3. Hezbollah committed an act of war by kidnapping Israeli soldiers.
4. Hezbollah has fired over 1,000 rockets into Israel with hopes that they will kill as many civilians as possible.
5. Isreal is holding back. They could bomb the hell out of Lebanon but they restrain themselves from doing so because, unlike Hezbollah, they are not interested in killing innocent civilians.
6. Hezbollah fires missles then runs to hide in civilian centers, thus causing civilians to become caught in the cross fire.
7. Israel has taken strides to promote peace, such as leaving Gaza, only to be rewarded by having soldiers killed and kidnapped.
8. If Lebanon refuses to send forces to secure the southern part of the country and create stability then it is Israels right to defend itself from aggression.
Hey Bananahands appears to believe Hezbollah killing civilians is wrong but Israel killing civilians is right. It will be difficult for you to get a reasonable argument out of him.Fld_Mrsl_Arts wrote:
fine, if u wish that to b then that is fine, but does it change the fact that the people that lived there were displaced and put away? no it doesnt
thanks for helping me there cameron, i was getting a little stressed with the ignorance
As opposed to what they're doing now, which is a light shower of barely harmful atomic constructs.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
5. Isreal is holding back. They could bomb the hell out of Lebanon
How fucking dense can you be? HE DOESN'T CARE ANYMORE! He wasn't trying to prove a point, he was saying he was agreeing to disagree.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
You simply believe I am wrong? Nice job on proving your point.
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-07-20 02:50:40)
Why can't you accept that Israel are killing civilians that are innocent? Sure some of them probably are harbouring Hezbollah but not all. Selective morality compromises your respectability. At least I condemn Hezbollah killing civilians.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
You simply believe I am wrong? Nice job on proving your point. As for my morality issues I could care less what a person like you thinks about my morals. You have repeatedly shown that you are brazenly anti-israel and that hatred blinds you to the facts.CameronPoe wrote:
Like I said. We aren't going to be able to agree on this. I simply believe you are wrong. I also find it odd that while you criticise Hezbollah for killing civilians, you condone Israel killing civilians. You appear to have selective morality issues.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Sorry if you think real life combat is like bf2. Tanks, apcs, choppers, troops all going through Lebanon would cause far more damage than the bombing.
1. Hezbollah runs rampant in Lebanon
2. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon's government.
3. Hezbollah committed an act of war by kidnapping Israeli soldiers.
4. Hezbollah has fired over 1,000 rockets into Israel with hopes that they will kill as many civilians as possible.
5. Isreal is holding back. They could bomb the hell out of Lebanon but they restrain themselves from doing so because, unlike Hezbollah, they are not interested in killing innocent civilians.
6. Hezbollah fires missles then runs to hide in civilian centers, thus causing civilians to become caught in the cross fire.
7. Israel has taken strides to promote peace, such as leaving Gaza, only to be rewarded by having soldiers killed and kidnapped.
8. If Lebanon refuses to send forces to secure the southern part of the country and create stability then it is Israels right to defend itself from aggression.
Work with me here. Do you really not see the difference? Hezbollah is TRYING to kill civilians. Isreal is trying to kill the terrorists. I have no pity for those that hide terrorists and then recieve a 500 lb bomb on their door step.CameronPoe wrote:
Hey Bananahands appears to believe Hezbollah killing civilians is wrong but Israel killing civilians is right. It will be difficult for you to get a reasonable argument out of him.Fld_Mrsl_Arts wrote:
fine, if u wish that to b then that is fine, but does it change the fact that the people that lived there were displaced and put away? no it doesnt
Nice job on not addressing any of my points. I honestly dont like the fact that civilians are being killed by bombs that were intended for terrorists but the blame dosent fall on Israels lap for that one. Lebanon should have secured its own territory to insure this could never occur and Hezbollah brings this upon the civilians around them.CameronPoe wrote:
Why can't you accept that Israel are killing civilians that are innocent? Sure some of them probably are harbouring Hezbollah but not all. Selective morality compromises your respectability. At least I condemn Hezbollah killing civilians.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
You simply believe I am wrong? Nice job on proving your point. As for my morality issues I could care less what a person like you thinks about my morals. You have repeatedly shown that you are brazenly anti-israel and that hatred blinds you to the facts.CameronPoe wrote:
Like I said. We aren't going to be able to agree on this. I simply believe you are wrong. I also find it odd that while you criticise Hezbollah for killing civilians, you condone Israel killing civilians. You appear to have selective morality issues.
1. Hezbollah runs rampant in Lebanon
2. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon's government.
3. Hezbollah committed an act of war by kidnapping Israeli soldiers.
4. Hezbollah has fired over 1,000 rockets into Israel with hopes that they will kill as many civilians as possible.
5. Isreal is holding back. They could bomb the hell out of Lebanon but they restrain themselves from doing so because, unlike Hezbollah, they are not interested in killing innocent civilians.
6. Hezbollah fires missles then runs to hide in civilian centers, thus causing civilians to become caught in the cross fire.
7. Israel has taken strides to promote peace, such as leaving Gaza, only to be rewarded by having soldiers killed and kidnapped.
8. If Lebanon refuses to send forces to secure the southern part of the country and create stability then it is Israels right to defend itself from aggression.
With respect to the points you made: you are correct on points 1, 2, 3, 4, probably 6 and 8.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Nice job on not addressing any of my points. I honestly dont like the fact that civilians are being killed by bombs that were intended for terrorists but the blame dosent fall on Israels lap for that one. Lebanon should have secured its own territory to insure this could never occur and Hezbollah brings this upon the civilians around them.CameronPoe wrote:
Why can't you accept that Israel are killing civilians that are innocent? Sure some of them probably are harbouring Hezbollah but not all. Selective morality compromises your respectability. At least I condemn Hezbollah killing civilians.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
You simply believe I am wrong? Nice job on proving your point. As for my morality issues I could care less what a person like you thinks about my morals. You have repeatedly shown that you are brazenly anti-israel and that hatred blinds you to the facts.
1. Hezbollah runs rampant in Lebanon
2. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon's government.
3. Hezbollah committed an act of war by kidnapping Israeli soldiers.
4. Hezbollah has fired over 1,000 rockets into Israel with hopes that they will kill as many civilians as possible.
5. Isreal is holding back. They could bomb the hell out of Lebanon but they restrain themselves from doing so because, unlike Hezbollah, they are not interested in killing innocent civilians.
6. Hezbollah fires missles then runs to hide in civilian centers, thus causing civilians to become caught in the cross fire.
7. Israel has taken strides to promote peace, such as leaving Gaza, only to be rewarded by having soldiers killed and kidnapped.
8. If Lebanon refuses to send forces to secure the southern part of the country and create stability then it is Israels right to defend itself from aggression.
You are completely wrong with your assertions that Israel 'has taken strides to promote peace' - the Gaza withdrawal was necessary to preserve the jewish majority in any 'greater state of Israel', not for any notion of 'peace' and I refer you to Bubbalo's point with respect to opint 5. Point 5 is hilarious.
Five is hilarious? Do you see tanks running through Beriut?
Last edited by -=NHB=- Bananahands (2006-07-20 02:58:52)
No. Course, I don't see Beirut either. There is a fancy pile of rubble, though. Wonder where that came from?-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Five is hilarious? Do you see tanks running through Beriut?
Go get the soldiers back then, DO NOT BOMB CIVILIAN TARGETS. Israel is an invader in the land they occupy now. They do not belong there, and should either stop intimidating, and sometimes attacking, everyone, or else go back to wherever the hell they came from (europe mostly)-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
How in the hell do you people blame any of this on Israel? If anyone kidnapped even one of our soldiers I could only hope that we would do everythign within our power to get them back and to make sure the terrorists who stole them would pay a dear price. Israel is the one who should be fed up by now. They have been persecuted throughout their existence. This one speck of land is all that they have to call home while the entire middle east will not rest until they are destroyed. Israel has tried to pull out of Gaza and move towards peace only to have rockets fired into their country and have soldiers kidnapped.{DsM}SongofWar[BoC] wrote:
The only reason israel does these things is because they know the americans will back them up. One of these days the arab countries and going to decide that they have had enough and we will see a MAJOR land war in the middle east. Mark my words.
That is the type of ignorance that causes the conflict in the Middle East. I fear for Canada's future if people like you actually believe that.{DsM}SongofWar[BoC] wrote:
Go get the soldiers back then, DO NOT BOMB CIVILIAN TARGETS. Israel is an invader in the land they occupy now. They do not belong there, and should either stop intimidating, and sometimes attacking, everyone, or else go back to wherever the hell they came from (europe mostly)-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
How in the hell do you people blame any of this on Israel? If anyone kidnapped even one of our soldiers I could only hope that we would do everythign within our power to get them back and to make sure the terrorists who stole them would pay a dear price. Israel is the one who should be fed up by now. They have been persecuted throughout their existence. This one speck of land is all that they have to call home while the entire middle east will not rest until they are destroyed. Israel has tried to pull out of Gaza and move towards peace only to have rockets fired into their country and have soldiers kidnapped.{DsM}SongofWar[BoC] wrote:
The only reason israel does these things is because they know the americans will back them up. One of these days the arab countries and going to decide that they have had enough and we will see a MAJOR land war in the middle east. Mark my words.
Edit. I love how you say "Go get the soldiers back then". Do you even realize how that would take place?
Last edited by -=NHB=- Bananahands (2006-07-20 03:03:50)
Actually, his statements were factually correct.
Looks like we have some mini Hitlers on our hands. I would love to see you tell an Israeli to "go home" to the face. This is the only place they have to call home and they have been fighting to the death to defend it because of the people like you who deny them the right to live.Bubbalo wrote:
Actually, his statements were factually correct.
QFEBubbalo wrote:
No. Course, I don't see Beirut either. There is a fancy pile of rubble, though. Wonder where that came from?-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Five is hilarious? Do you see tanks running through Beriut?
Oh yeah - silly him: the speed at which getting the soldiers back is directly proportional to how many bombs you flatten the offending host largely innocent country with...-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Edit. I love how you say "Go get the soldiers back then". Do you even realize how that would take place?
I wouldn't be surprised if an Israeli bomb has already taken out the two kidnapped soldiers!!
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-20 03:14:53)
here is the long and short of everything.
israel shouldnt be where it is today, it is only there due to interferance from the west.
israel displaced millions of palestinians into a muh smaller area
palestinians are angry and so are other muslim states who support them
palestinians react with agression (quite fairly, as their homes were taken)
israel reacts with a disproportionate force, that despite its far more advanced technology, still end up with civilian casualties.
lebanon cant control its rebels, it is a tough task
hezbolah is not lebanon
israel is threatening lebanon, NOT hezbolah
israel kills civilians, hezbolah kills civilians, but hezbolah uses inaccurate, old unguided rockets, israel uses accurate precision weapons, that carry far more munitions and so israel is in the wrong
israel shouldnt be where it is today, it is only there due to interferance from the west.
israel displaced millions of palestinians into a muh smaller area
palestinians are angry and so are other muslim states who support them
palestinians react with agression (quite fairly, as their homes were taken)
israel reacts with a disproportionate force, that despite its far more advanced technology, still end up with civilian casualties.
lebanon cant control its rebels, it is a tough task
hezbolah is not lebanon
israel is threatening lebanon, NOT hezbolah
israel kills civilians, hezbolah kills civilians, but hezbolah uses inaccurate, old unguided rockets, israel uses accurate precision weapons, that carry far more munitions and so israel is in the wrong
I am sorry, but I don't think every Lebanese is "harboring" hezbollah terrorists. Israel is punishing a whole nation for the actions of minority. That sort of collective punishment is disgusting and even reminds me of some facist regimes...-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Please enlighten me then. How could Israel deal with Hezbollah? I feel no pity for those killed who were harboring Hezbollah terrorists inside their house. By firing rockets into Israel and running into civilian centers they are bringing this upon their own people. Israel cant sit back and just watch the missles fly. They have every right to kill those responsible. Unfortunatley the cowards who are firing the rockets run home to their families. I wish they wouldnt, but they do.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't think you've been reading my posts properly.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
I agree with people based on reason. You seem to have an all out hatred of anything Israel, just like many of the people living in the Middle East. I can put my bias aside when the facts are staring me in the eyes. This conflict was undoubtably caused by Hezbollah and I cant figure out why you have such a hard on for them or anything anti israel.
1) I do not support Hezbollah, OK? Comprende?
2) I am criticising the way in which Israel have responded, not their right to respond. Comprende?
I honestly don't think you've read half of my posts. You also seem incapable of being able to look objectively at what Israel are doing. Their actions are counter-productive. Collective punishment breeds further 'terrorism'. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO GET AT HEZBOLLAH. You need to open your mind to those options.
To deal with these terrorists, you need proper intelligence, the support of the local communities and dedicated special operations, not carpet bombings.
Israel's current approach is bound to infuriate the "neutral" civilian population and drive more recruits in the arms of hezbollah
Wow just wow. So by using old unnacurate rockets its ok to kill civilians? Thats the complete opposite you moron. Wow. Israel by using more accurate missles is in the right because that makes the chance of killing civilians far less than carpet bombing or launching rockets. Hezbollah by sending unaccurate rockets is in the wrong because they are basically throwing explosives up in hopes that it hits civilians.Fld_Mrsl_Arts wrote:
here is the long and short of everything.
israel shouldnt be where it is today, it is only there due to interferance from the west.
israel displaced millions of palestinians into a muh smaller area
palestinians are angry and so are other muslim states who support them
palestinians react with agression (quite fairly, as their homes were taken)
israel reacts with a disproportionate force, that despite its far more advanced technology, still end up with civilian casualties.
lebanon cant control its rebels, it is a tough task
hezbolah is not lebanon
israel is threatening lebanon, NOT hezbolah
israel kills civilians, hezbolah kills civilians, but hezbolah uses inaccurate, old unguided rockets, israel uses accurate precision weapons, that carry far more munitions and so israel is in the wrong
As a country its Lebanons duty to control its own territory. If its unable then they should request more troops from the UN.
Go take a refresher course on middle eastern history before you start spouting off about the ignorance of other people.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
That is the type of ignorance that causes the conflict in the Middle East. I fear for Canada's future if people like you actually believe that.{DsM}SongofWar[BoC] wrote:
Go get the soldiers back then, DO NOT BOMB CIVILIAN TARGETS. Israel is an invader in the land they occupy now. They do not belong there, and should either stop intimidating, and sometimes attacking, everyone, or else go back to wherever the hell they came from (europe mostly)-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
How in the hell do you people blame any of this on Israel? If anyone kidnapped even one of our soldiers I could only hope that we would do everythign within our power to get them back and to make sure the terrorists who stole them would pay a dear price. Israel is the one who should be fed up by now. They have been persecuted throughout their existence. This one speck of land is all that they have to call home while the entire middle east will not rest until they are destroyed. Israel has tried to pull out of Gaza and move towards peace only to have rockets fired into their country and have soldiers kidnapped.
Edit. I love how you say "Go get the soldiers back then". Do you even realize how that would take place?
Not by bombing the crap out of anything that moves, i'll tell you that. I guarantee that one of Israel's three intelligence services has some idea where they are being held (if they are still alive).
While I do not feel that Israel deserves all the hardships it has had thrust upon it over the years, they need to stop acting like they are such a nice and friendly country that is unjustly being persecuted.
What would you do if a persecuted ethnic group from, the balkans lets say, took over manhattan island, as was armed heavily by the russians (just as an example) to the point where the US military couldn't force them out, and then forced all the people who had previously lived there to reside into a small, cramped, heavily fortified area a fraction of the size of their former territory. IF you wanted to go for a walk in central park you would need to go through three military checkpoints. I would imagine you wouldn't be too happy. You need to look at it from the perspective of the people who were unjustly displaced by this. At the same time, I do not agree with the methods employed by either side. I know this is a rather outlandish example, but try looking at it from this perspective.
Jerusalem is a christian holy city as well, and I want some land, damnit!
So Israel wants to destroy their enemies... I wonder why? Oh maybe millions of their people we're murdered in the holocaust, so quite frankly Israel and the jews are making sure they never get fucked over again, Yeah they're heavy handed, but it's to proove that the world will never screw Israel over again and killing their people will not go unpunished, No mather what the cost
Get your ass back to europe and let the native americans have their land back before you start getting all high and mighty on us.-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Looks like we have some mini Hitlers on our hands. I would love to see you tell an Israeli to "go home" to the face. This is the only place they have to call home and they have been fighting to the death to defend it because of the people like you who deny them the right to live.Bubbalo wrote:
Actually, his statements were factually correct.
Sending in operatives is a suicide mission so intelligence is often scarce. There was a CIA guy on the news today swearing he would never go back to Lebanon because the counter intelligence was so adapt that they would kill him within days of arriving. Lebanon, by not using its army to secure its own territory and thus allowing missles to be launched into its neighbor is irresponsible. Israel will also never have the support of the locals. This is the only option on the table besides an all out invasion.B.Schuss wrote:
I am sorry, but I don't think every Lebanese is "harboring" hezbollah terrorists. Israel is punishing a whole nation for the actions of minority. That sort of collective punishment is disgusting and even reminds me of some facist regimes...-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:
Please enlighten me then. How could Israel deal with Hezbollah? I feel no pity for those killed who were harboring Hezbollah terrorists inside their house. By firing rockets into Israel and running into civilian centers they are bringing this upon their own people. Israel cant sit back and just watch the missles fly. They have every right to kill those responsible. Unfortunatley the cowards who are firing the rockets run home to their families. I wish they wouldnt, but they do.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't think you've been reading my posts properly.
1) I do not support Hezbollah, OK? Comprende?
2) I am criticising the way in which Israel have responded, not their right to respond. Comprende?
I honestly don't think you've read half of my posts. You also seem incapable of being able to look objectively at what Israel are doing. Their actions are counter-productive. Collective punishment breeds further 'terrorism'. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO GET AT HEZBOLLAH. You need to open your mind to those options.
To deal with these terrorists, you need proper intelligence, the support of the local communities and dedicated special operations, not carpet bombings.
Israel's current approach is bound to infuriate the "neutral" civilian population and drive more recruits in the arms of hezbollah