BF2S Forums North Korea firing missles?

Out of curiosity, what was the nature of Kim Jong Il's threat?  Was he threatening to use the nukes as part of an unprovoked attack, or that NK would use them if it were attacked by the US?

so let me summarize. Cpt.Fass thinks that NK is looking for a scapegoat to draw their people's attention away from their internal problems, and Gator thinks that NK has nothing to lose and basically needs the possible nuclear threat to push for a relief of santions against them and to get more economical support from other countries.
Nuclear weapons as a deterrent and to secure independence from other nations' interests, trying to bring themselves in a better position at the negotiating table.
The problem is, just like Iran, NK must know that they have nothing to wager. ICBM's or not, MAD as a concept only works if both nations are equally strong and none would be able to win a conflict. But both Iran and NK are weak economically and militarily. None can hope to successfully fight against the USA, and one or two nuclear weapons won't change that.
I can understand that the US cannot run that risk, but I then ask myself how far are you prepared to go to prevent nations like Iran and NK from developping a larger nuclear arsenal ?

China has stayed out of the conflict up to now, as the Iraq affair really didn't bother them much. But Iran and especially Nk would be a different story. China is the regional superpower in Asia and NK is basically on their doorstep. If the US plans to attack NK in the future, you'd better make sure China goes along with that.
Moreover, it is in China's own interest to keep the situation in NK stable.

Also, I don't think the US would have the necessary military and supply capabilities to fight Iran and NK alone.
The troops are very stretched right now, and I don't think you want a war at multiple fronts.
You'll need help, and by help I mean significant help, from nations that muster larger numbers of armed forces ( Denmark and Aruba won't do this time, I am afraid ). France, Germany, Russia, and yes, China.
This will have to be a truly international coalition. I hope the UN can achieve something here. I believe this will be the ultimate test for the UN.

Major Payne wrote:

are Americans addicted to war or something. why would you begin a war for some test rockets

Jamdude wrote:

If we went to war with North Korea it would be flat in a matter of hours.

you've Americans got a fucking huge ego

Yup...

B.Schuss wrote:

so let me summarize. Cpt.Fass thinks that NK is looking for a scapegoat to draw their people's attention away from their internal problems, and Gator thinks that NK has nothing to lose and basically needs the possible nuclear threat to push for a relief of santions against them and to get more economical support from other countries.
Nuclear weapons as a deterrent and to secure independence from other nations' interests, trying to bring themselves in a better position at the negotiating table.
The problem is, just like Iran, NK must know that they have nothing to wager. ICBM's or not, MAD as a concept only works if both nations are equally strong and none would be able to win a conflict. But both Iran and NK are weak economically and militarily. None can hope to successfully fight against the USA, and one or two nuclear weapons won't change that.
I can understand that the US cannot run that risk, but I then ask myself how far are you prepared to go to prevent nations like Iran and NK from developping a larger nuclear arsenal ?

China has stayed out of the conflict up to now, as the Iraq affair really didn't bother them much. But Iran and especially Nk would be a different story. China is the regional superpower in Asia and NK is basically on their doorstep. If the US plans to attack NK in the future, you'd better make sure China goes along with that.
Moreover, it is in China's own interest to keep the situation in NK stable.

Also, I don't think the US would have the necessary military and supply capabilities to fight Iran and NK alone.
The troops are very stretched right now, and I don't think you want a war at multiple fronts.
You'll need help, and by help I mean significant help, from nations that muster larger numbers of armed forces ( Denmark and Aruba won't do this time, I am afraid ). France, Germany, Russia, and yes, China.
This will have to be a truly international coalition. I hope the UN can achieve something here. I believe this will be the ultimate test for the UN.

This is possibly the most intelligent and well informed answer, not taking anyones sides, not saying that this country's dicks bigger than the US and vice-versa.  Look, the US never claimed to be world police, that was a moniker given to us for trying to give a country its independence on a silver platter.  What better time for NK to stir the pot than when the number 1 superpower is at war?  NK knows we wont attack without cause, and it would take alot more than some missiles that can barely stay in the air to start a new fight.  Granted NK got the worlds attention, which was their sole intent.  We are looking at them, but keeping an eye on whats coming in the future.  I seriously doubt we are gonna pull off Iraq to fight another war, we started a job in the middle east and now we need to finish it, no matter what you anti-American guys say.  I respect everyones opinions here.  And I know a majority of you are adults that have an ear to the world as well as enjoy a good game of war.  The powers that be decide what our countries do, say, and act.  And just because a Brits POV (for example only) on this forum may be anti-American, thats not gonna change your leaders from trading with us, or a pissy attitude for whatever thing you have against our country.  Its not gonna matter.  But I am glad at the fact this forum gives everyone free speech.  But this is getting off topic.

If NK acts a fool and actually shows the capability to attack the US especially right now for no apparent reason but money and a vendetta, it could spark a fight.  I dont underestimate the N. Koreans, they have men stand in a well disciplined stance at the corners of buildings for hours straight.  I dont doubt they will put up a fight.  But I do realize that they are small and so is their military.  If they became a threat to Japan, or surrounding countries, I hope to God that China's leader would stand up and say thats enough and bitch-slap them down to a civil point.  China may be too proud to ask the US to take care of them and do it themselves.  But I hope to hell there isnt another war, God knows this world is war torn enough already.  Good day all.

Toni wrote:

Yup..., nope... - Are you retarded or something ? Oh forgot you child of a 666 and live in hell ... LOL what a clown.

well, actually I think his latest response was quite sophisticated. But  go on, damage your reputation by calling someone names on an internet forum....

btw, "are you retarded" could be interpreted as a violation of forum rules, so I suggest you stick to  the topic and engage in the debate instead of insulting people.

Toni wrote:

Americans are wimps. They are scared of their own shadows and constantly looking over their sholder. You have to many enemies and now you're like Italian mafia running scared.

Takes the short bus to school. Comes from a big tuff scary land.

Wrong Major all male. And about banning part - I couldn't care less - ban if you want to. Do you think I'll cry over some internet forum and things that people write about and argue over things that doesn't even matter. What can you do to change the things in NK or America for that matter ?

And to prove it I showed how little does it take to make you yanks go ballistic and start making threats.

Oh and another thing - are you threatining me ? Coz joke is a joke or stupid response is a stupid response, but ''You have been warned'' - what's up with that.

Well did you even think that I'm not from you're glory America and there are even other countries on this planet and names spell differently. End of discussion for me coz' this is getting stupid.

Yeah and if we did "flaten" NK China and Russia would step in to stop us. As we would do the same if say Mexico, or Canada had a major threat on their hands.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

b.schuss my theory is that NK and other army nations, nations who create armys to police there population as appose to going to war with other countries always use scapegoats and fear to control their country. Germany did it inbetween WWI and WWII the US is doing it now why can't NK be doing it.
Now I don't think anyone on our forum really knows anything about the internal workings of NK but I'm pretty sure that's how it's working, that's why they are working towards Military greatness.

I agree that it is very common for governments in times of internal trouble to direct the attention of the public to external issues. Some will even argue that governments have even created such external issues in the past to relief themselves of internal pressure. As demonstrated by the events following 09/11, the population tends to rally behind their leaders during those times.

Would legislation like the Patriot Act have passed if 09/11 hadn't happened ?

But I am straying off topic again. My apologies.

The problem I have with NK and that argument is that whatever the feelings of the population about this might be, their leaders cannot hope to gain enough military and economical strength to fight the US at any given moment. It's a bluff, and not even a good one.
But I also agree that we don't really know anything about the inner workings of NK. Who knows what its people really think...

They might actually go to war though, that is the thing about people who really don't have anything to loose dealth isn't that scary of a thing.

North Korea just wants nukes to keep us from bullying them. We still have troops all over South Korea. NK just wants the bomb to scare us off so they can mind their own communist business without us hasseling them. North Korea has no dreams of war, they have no allies, and are surrounded by 3 of the worlds largest military powers, none of which is particularly fond of them.

d3v1ldr1v3r13 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

b.schuss my theory is that NK and other army nations, nations who create armys to police there population as appose to going to war with other countries always use scapegoats and fear to control their country. Germany did it inbetween WWI and WWII the US is doing it now why can't NK be doing it.
Now I don't think anyone on our forum really knows anything about the internal workings of NK but I'm pretty sure that's how it's working, that's why they are working towards Military greatness.

I agree that it is very common for governments in times of internal trouble to direct the attention of the public to external issues. Some will even argue that governments have even created such external issues in the past to relief themselves of internal pressure. As demonstrated by the events following 09/11, the population tends to rally behind their leaders during those times.

Would legislation like the Patriot Act have passed if 09/11 hadn't happened ?

But I am straying off topic again. My apologies.

The problem I have with NK and that argument is that whatever the feelings of the population about this might be, their leaders cannot hope to gain enough military and economical strength to fight the US at any given moment. It's a bluff, and not even a good one.
But I also agree that we don't really know anything about the inner workings of NK. Who knows what its people really think...

I think Kim Jong may have started a fire.  China didnt seem to enjoy the fact that he fired some missiles, Japan didnt, we all know the US didnt.  But thats all in the past right now.  He has Israeli (spelling?) rocket scientists helping him out with this program, proven.  He's got the world watching him, and whether you or he admits it or not he's using outdated Soviet weaponry, and hes walking on eggshells with his power right now, if he launches again sometime soon, I will be surprised.

And by my "yep and nope" statement, I was implying how shortsighted you were Toni.  You dont seem to have a wide and open mind perspective about some things.  Which is really a pain to deal with, but to come into debate and serious talk and call people childish names, it would be like your leaders having a debate with our leaders here in the US, and yours says "YEAH WELL FUCK YOU!!!".  Now how would that make your leaders look to the world?  Oh yeah you dont care as long as its pointed toward the US.  I didnt say nope with the intent to disrespect, it was to make it known that what they teach you about us in your country it seems is wrong.  If we are so scared what are we still doing in Iraq?  Oh yeah because we learned from our last few mistakes and are finishing what we started.  If we are sooooo scared, what are we doing evacuating refugees from a country we are not involved with yet?  So whatever country you are from, whats your country doing right now?

Not saying i dont believe you, but do you have proof to backup that Israel has been helping N. Korea with their missle program. I find that very hard to believe, especially with the US's relations with Israel.