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2006-07-19 07:52:30
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6978|California
Israel is wasting it's time with Lebanon. They should use covert ops and start assassinating as many hezbollah agents as possible. Realistically, any group who's sole purpose is for the destruction of another group, should just be whiped out.

Also, I heard an interesting point. Make a certain stretch of Southern Lebanon a "no fly" zone. Sort of like the DMZ in Korea.

Actually, that's a good idea. Have a buffer zone between Israel and countries that are hostile towards it. That way, you could do 2 things:

1. Set a permanent boundary for Israel, which would end all sides vying for more land.
2. Clearly establish who fired the first shots in any sort of conflagration.
2006-07-19 08:20:03
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6785|Texas - Bigger than France
I do not believe the Israelis are TARGETING civs.  The targets are in civillian areas.  If you want to argue the the targets were not genuine - I'm not sure how to prove or disprove this.  There was a post earlier - airport (military target), bridges (military target), depots (military target), power stations (military target), civillians (???I have not seen this reported).

And yes, there will be collateral damage.  If you want to argue that they could have been more surgical - well, you might have something there.

But, I have not read "Israel shells settlement/city to kill civillians".  I've only read they've gone for targets in civillian areas.  That's the information I have.  In the meantime, rockets are fired at Israel's cities.

Both sides of the conflict are fighting with the same rules - dirty.  Random rockets and non-surgical strikes.
2006-07-19 08:22:07
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6887|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Erkut.hv wrote:

Israel is wasting it's time with Lebanon. They should use covert ops and start assassinating as many hezbollah agents as possible. Realistically, any group who's sole purpose is for the destruction of another group, should just be whiped out.

Also, I heard an interesting point. Make a certain stretch of Southern Lebanon a "no fly" zone. Sort of like the DMZ in Korea.

Actually, that's a good idea. Have a buffer zone between Israel and countries that are hostile towards it. That way, you could do 2 things:

1. Set a permanent boundary for Israel, which would end all sides vying for more land.
2. Clearly establish who fired the first shots in any sort of conflagration.
I agree that would be a good solution, provided Israel withdraw to the borders that the UN set-up originally.

I find it interesting that kmarion is quoting UN resolution 1559 and stating that Lebanon isn't following it:  when has Israel EVER followed the mandates of a UN resolution (?) is my response.

P.S. to the gentleman who said that Israel is not targeting civilians:  A Lebanese man took a CNN reporter into the suburbs that Israel is constantly bombing.  There is nothing there but civilians, homes, markets, etc...there is NO Hezbollah outpost, there are no rockets, nothing but civilians.  He has it on film (I watched it last night).

Last edited by HM1{N} (2006-07-19 08:42:53)

2006-07-19 09:27:38
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6843|132 and Bush

HM1{N} wrote:

I find it interesting that kmarion is quoting UN resolution 1559 and stating that Lebanon isn't following it:  when has Israel EVER followed the mandates of a UN resolution (?) is my response.
When it withdrew from Lebanon the first time only to be attacked time and time again.

What benefit is it for Isreal to attack civilians? At some point common sense has to be applied.

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-07-19 09:29:02)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-07-19 09:34:08
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6887|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Kmarion wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

I find it interesting that kmarion is quoting UN resolution 1559 and stating that Lebanon isn't following it:  when has Israel EVER followed the mandates of a UN resolution (?) is my response.
When it withdrew from Lebanon the first time only to be attacked time and time again.

What benefit is it for Isreal to attack civilians? At some point common sense has to be applied.
Then please apply it to what Israel is doing.  300 dead in Lebanon now, all civilians except for 2 Hezbollah at this point in the reportings.  You tell me, what DOES common sense say?

In answer to your above comment, I ask this: WHY did they get attacked again?  Maybe because they didn't honor the agreement fully?  Hmmm?  Why are Lebanese prisoners still in their jails?

Sweet Jesus...you REALLY need some objectivity, and a history lesson.
2006-07-19 09:44:33
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6785|Texas - Bigger than France

HM1{N} wrote:

P.S. to the gentleman who said that Israel is not targeting civilians:  A Lebanese man took a CNN reporter into the suburbs that Israel is constantly bombing.  There is nothing there but civilians, homes, markets, etc...there is NO Hezbollah outpost, there are no rockets, nothing but civilians.  He has it on film (I watched it last night).
k, thx.  Well that blows.

Anyone know if there's a charity fund set up for refugees yet?
2006-07-19 09:45:19
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6944|New York

Bubbalo wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

You are also wrong in your ASSUMPTION that Israel is the terrorists.
Uh, it isn't an assumption.  Assumption would be if he was told there was a country called Israel, and he said "They must be terrorists".  He's using available evidence to come to a conclusion.

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

If you were surrounded By countries on ALL sides who want you ALL eradicated no matter what, you would respond as they are now.
Irrelevant.  Terrorism is using force or threat of force against civilians (some also including civilian property) in order to achieve political aims.  Israel meets these criteria.  Their motivations are unimportant, in this context.
Isreal is NOT trying to achieve any political aims, They wanted there soldiers back and The TERRORISTS said go fuck yourself Isreal. So Isreal said Ok Choke on this. Unfortunately, these terrorists are Hideing in civilian neighborhoods. So you tell me, If theres a war Involving your country, Your telling me that You wouldnt target the Terrorists killing your people because they choose to put inocent people in there way as shields?

Ok done now, im going back to looking for UFO's. Makes more sense than some of the folks in this thread.
2006-07-19 10:05:00
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6798

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Here is a clue, obviously you need help understanding what I am explaining to you. The Israeli forces are not intentionally hiding weapons and strategic assets amongst innocents in the hope they wont be attacked. If they do attack you will get some moron quoting the amount of innocents that have died verse the terrorist in order to drone up some support for them. Can you really not understand what they are doing? They do not care if their own innocents die if it promotes their cause. They will use any mean they can. They HOPE and PRAY that an Israeli missile takes out children. Because people like you are unable to sort out the grey matter in between .It amazes me the amount of people that can still draw moral equivalence to Terrorist and the civilized world.

Get a clue ?.. man you are way off here buddy, most of the Muslim states have even condemned the Hezbozos.
I don't think you understand his poistion at all. Where did he condone or endorse Hezbollah? He hasn't made an incorrect assertion either in stating that Israel is directly targeting civilian assets, in which civilians are more than likely to reside/be. Hezbollah probably do realise that every civilian death in Lebanon plays into their hands - maybe Israel should get a clue and try and come up with a more intelligent response to the recent incidents regarding Hezbollah.... Israel deserves no respect for the way it is acting and have stooped to the level of their enemy, something which I find unacceptable for a 'supposedly' first world 'western' nation.
Understood and noted. I guess I took his explanation and reasoning as his defense of or "endorsement" of what Hezbollah was doing. In all honesty I guess if Israel were to attack any country it should have been Syria or Iran who seem to be directly supporting Hezbollah . Lebanon's problem seems to be it's inability to root Hezbollah out of their country despite UN res 1559 . But you have to understand in some sense of course Israel itself is directly going after the areas from which the attacks are coming.

Let me ask you this. What do you think a country should do if it's soldiers are being abducted and missiles are falling in its third largest city?
What I believe they should have done was to have stayed their hand for at least one day, having set an ultimatum for Hezbollah, and upon the ultimatum not being met engage Hezbollah forces directly in a limited ground invasion (far more focused than simply carpet bombing areas). Of course it doesn't address the core issues behind why groups like Hamas and Hezbollah exist but that will likely take years to fix (and may possibly never be unfortunately for the poor Palestinians).

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-19 10:07:14)

2006-07-19 10:22:29
|AIA| DAS
Member
+23|6740|Me Dad's Wilkins
Anyone with even an inkling of a world view knows that hezbollah controls southern Lebanon.  They hold 23 seats in the Lebanese version of Parliment.  The people living there know it and so does Israel.  The Lebanese are either too weak of a government or to supportive to get rid of hezbollah.  They will never be truly universally recognized as a sovereign nation until they abolish hezbollah, effectivlty cutting all ties with Syria and Iran.
2006-07-19 10:30:49
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6772|Global Command

|AIA| DAS wrote:

Anyone with even an inkling of a world view knows that hezbollah controls southern Lebanon.  They hold 23 seats in the Lebanese version of Parliment.  The people living there know it and so does Israel.  The Lebanese are either too weak of a government or to supportive to get rid of hezbollah.  They will never be truly universally recognized as a sovereign nation until they abolish hezbollah, effectivlty cutting all ties with Syria and Iran.
Most happnen post of this entire thread.
Well done.
2006-07-19 10:34:22
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6843|132 and Bush

HM1{N} wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

I find it interesting that kmarion is quoting UN resolution 1559 and stating that Lebanon isn't following it:  when has Israel EVER followed the mandates of a UN resolution (?) is my response.
When it withdrew from Lebanon the first time only to be attacked time and time again.

What benefit is it for Israel to attack civilians? At some point common sense has to be applied.
Then please apply it to what Israel is doing.  300 dead in Lebanon now, all civilians except for 2 Hezbollah at this point in the reportings.  You tell me, what DOES common sense say?

In answer to your above comment, I ask this: WHY did they get attacked again?  Maybe because they didn't honor the agreement fully?  Hmmm?  Why are Lebanese prisoners still in their jails?

Sweet Jesus...you REALLY need some objectivity, and a history lesson.
I am being objective my friend. I am aware of certain violations by Israel.(I could make a list if you want). There are no innocents between the two. But please answer my question. What is Israel supposed to do when it is under attack? Do you really believe its only about prisoners and UN resolutions? Those terrorist states will never stop their attack against the Jews. Their hate for them is deep seeded and they will continue to try and destroy them no matter what happens.  Please listen to me when I say I understand why they have taken this action. That doesn't mean I agree with everything they are doing. As for history, please don't pretend to understand my comprehension of history by reading four post of mine.

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-07-19 10:34:39)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-07-19 10:36:04
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6785|Texas - Bigger than France

CameronPoe wrote:

What I believe they should have done was to have stayed their hand for at least one day, having set an ultimatum for Hezbollah, and upon the ultimatum not being met engage Hezbollah forces directly in a limited ground invasion (far more focused than simply carpet bombing areas). Of course it doesn't address the core issues behind why groups like Hamas and Hezbollah exist but that will likely take years to fix (and may possibly never be unfortunately for the poor Palestinians).
True.  I know this posts has a few too many "Ifs" in this but:

But if you set the historical issues aside for a second (aka why who did what and when, and the blame).

The Hezbollah attacked in response to Israel rolling into Gaza.  I'm not sure how quickly they learned it was the Hez and were able to link the action in response to what was happening to Gaza...  Didn't the Hez "declare war"?

But how long would you wait to respond if a sworn enemy attacked?

I'll concede the non-proportional attacks argument - I'm not going down that road with this post.
2006-07-19 12:19:41
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6887|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Pug wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

P.S. to the gentleman who said that Israel is not targeting civilians:  A Lebanese man took a CNN reporter into the suburbs that Israel is constantly bombing.  There is nothing there but civilians, homes, markets, etc...there is NO Hezbollah outpost, there are no rockets, nothing but civilians.  He has it on film (I watched it last night).
k, thx.  Well that blows.

Anyone know if there's a charity fund set up for refugees yet?
Here is a list:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/ … index.html

I like that you are showing compassion.  +1 to you sir!
2006-07-19 12:49:45
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6803
Israelis in the south offer their homes to Israelis in the north so they can escape the violence. Thats the kind of people Israelis are. The Lebonese in the north have fought against the Lebonese in the south during civil wars. Thats what kind of people they are. Im still going to back Israel on this one.

Last edited by rawls2 (2006-07-19 12:51:02)

2006-07-19 13:17:50
jonsimon
Member
+224|6738

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Ok done now, im going back to looking for UFO's. Makes more sense than some of the folks in this thread.
Namely you.
2006-07-19 13:20:54
jonsimon
Member
+224|6738

rawls2 wrote:

Israelis in the south offer their homes to Israelis in the north so they can escape the violence. Thats the kind of people Israelis are. The Lebonese in the north have fought against the Lebonese in the south during civil wars. Thats what kind of people they are. Im still going to back Israel on this one.
And then the israelis blow up the lebanese in the south. Not to mention, israels disturbance of the balance in lebanon (about 1/3 tsunni, 1/3 sheite, 1/3 christians) was the beginning of the lebanese civil war. It doesnt matter how nice I am to my family if I shoot all my neighbors.
2006-07-19 13:29:40
negolien
Member
+3|6738
LOL a Lebonesse man took him into civilian blah blah. Your a moron dude. That "Civilian" was  hezbollah spokesman LOL. What an idiot. Intentionally targeting civilians lol what a crock of shit. You mean like say strapping explosives onto themselves and going into a Lebonesse Mall and blowing up women and children?? Oh wait that's the Arabs huh. Get a fucking clue ya Socialist scum. CAMP DAVID ...CAMP DAVID.... CAMP DAVID...CAMP DAVID oh ya that's right those guys don't have a job if there's peace huh. Over 1000 rockets have hit Israel in the last 6 days. Were they targeting military centers with rockets LOL. Oh and BTW invading a country and killing 8 soldiers kidnapping 2 = HUGE ASS KICKING........Try that shit in the US and see what happens to your little terrorist nations.
2006-07-19 13:55:29
jonsimon
Member
+224|6738

negolien wrote:

LOL a Lebonesse man took him into civilian blah blah. Your a moron dude. That "Civilian" was  hezbollah spokesman LOL. What an idiot. Intentionally targeting civilians lol what a crock of shit. You mean like say strapping explosives onto themselves and going into a Lebonesse Mall and blowing up women and children?? Oh wait that's the Arabs huh. Get a fucking clue ya Socialist scum. CAMP DAVID ...CAMP DAVID.... CAMP DAVID...CAMP DAVID oh ya that's right those guys don't have a job if there's peace huh. Over 1000 rockets have hit Israel in the last 6 days. Were they targeting military centers with rockets LOL. Oh and BTW invading a country and killing 8 soldiers kidnapping 2 = HUGE ASS KICKING........Try that shit in the US and see what happens to your little terrorist nations.
They are directly targeting civillian centers. They are bombing suburbs. If a terrorist lived in the house next to yours, I suppose we should blow up your whole block just to make sure we get him, right? Not to mention hezbollah is not just a terrorist organization. Hezbollah provides schools hospitals and news services to the lebanese public. That means Israel can attack any neighborhood or city with a hospital or a school and claim they were attacking hezbollah. Does that mean they killed would be suicide bombers? NO.

Last edited by jonsimon (2006-07-19 14:08:13)

2006-07-19 14:21:07
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6785|Texas - Bigger than France
"Not just a terrorist organization."

At some point you have to think hard about statement.  I get your point but...
2006-07-19 14:24:03
kuntpunch_37
Banned
+7|6736|Little Rock, Arkansas bitches
also, let's not forget that israel pulled out of gaza and lebanon unilaterally, and the rest of the middle east saw it as weakness.  i don't think they can afford to be seen as weak.  why is israel attacking lebanon?  hezbollah holds about a fourth of the seats in lebanon's government.  nobody else can control hezbollah, so isreal is finally doing something about them.  i'm not a huge israel supporter, because i think they engage in their fair share of terrorism, but i think this is one case where they're doing the right thing.
2006-07-19 14:26:02
kuntpunch_37
Banned
+7|6736|Little Rock, Arkansas bitches

jonsimon wrote:

negolien wrote:

Not to mention hezbollah is not just a terrorist organization. Hezbollah provides schools hospitals and news services to the lebanese public. That means Israel can attack any neighborhood or city with a hospital or a school and claim they were attacking hezbollah. Does that mean they killed would be suicide bombers? NO.
And they hide among civillians so that when someone retaliates against them people can piss and moan about civilian casualties...
2006-07-19 14:26:34
jonsimon
Member
+224|6738

kuntpunch_37 wrote:

also, let's not forget that israel pulled out of gaza and lebanon unilaterally, and the rest of the middle east saw it as weakness.  i don't think they can afford to be seen as weak.  why is israel attacking lebanon?  hezbollah holds about a fourth of the seats in lebanon's government.  nobody else can control hezbollah, so isreal is finally doing something about them.  i'm not a huge israel supporter, because i think they engage in their fair share of terrorism, but i think this is one case where they're doing the right thing.
No, israel told the world the pulled out unilaterally. But they continued to support israeli settlements and regulate all trade in and out gaza and the west bank. Why do you think engraged palestinians would continue to fire rockets? Because Israel lied.
2006-07-19 14:30:18
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6869
Israel is doing exactly what it needs to do to survive.  6 years ago they agreed to a peace process.  For six years they have been attacked.  Israel understands the government in Lebanon is one that will be open and understanding in the future, and it is in their best interest to keep Lebanon in tact enough that this government can rule.  It is giving them that opportunity by attacking and killing off Hezbolla.   Israel also knows that the government in Lebanon is not, and has not been able to control Hezbolla in southern Lebonan.  Israel did not pick this fight but they are damn sure going to finish it.  They have tried peace and it didn't work with this organization as well as Hamas.  They have STRATEGICALLY taken out Hezbolla officials houses, weapons stashes and supply ports and routes from Syria and at this time are taking out trucks on the road which may contain weapons. This move has been six years in planning.  It is not picking a fight, they have a plan and are executing it to the "T".  I can guarantee you this, if Iran or Syria gets involved Israel will not back down.  Which will most likely lead to the US involvement in this.  Keep in mind, it is in the US best interest to have Hezbolla out of the picture as well.  Which is why you are seeing the very slow and deliberate movement by the State Department.

Last edited by GATOR591957 (2006-07-19 14:33:16)

2006-07-19 14:33:03
ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ
Banned
+69|6744

kuntpunch_37 wrote:

And they hide among civillians so that when someone retaliates against them people can piss and moan about civilian casualties...
They seek sympathy from nations like Iran and Syria by portaying themselves as victims and martyrs no matter the circumstances. They initaite violence then play the victim. Israel exists because of Palestnian hatred and violence towards Jews. Nothing short of every Jew in Israel dead will pacify them.

Heres a pretty funny video showing how Palestinians lie to get sympathy for thier cause.

Pallywood

Last edited by ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ (2006-07-19 14:33:53)

2006-07-19 14:38:09
jonsimon
Member
+224|6738

kuntpunch_37 wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

negolien wrote:

Not to mention hezbollah is not just a terrorist organization. Hezbollah provides schools hospitals and news services to the lebanese public. That means Israel can attack any neighborhood or city with a hospital or a school and claim they were attacking hezbollah. Does that mean they killed would be suicide bombers? NO.
And they hide among civillians so that when someone retaliates against them people can piss and moan about civilian casualties...
They hide hospitals and schools among citizens? HEZBOLLAH HAS TWO DISTINCT DIVISIONS, ONE OF WHICH IS CIVILLIAN. In other words, Israel is attempting to bomb peaceful politicians that support an organization which runs HOSPITALS SCHOOLS AND NEWS SERVICES. HOW CAN ANYONE CONDONE SUCH ACTION? If you think blowing up schools, hospitals, and homes is reasonable you are a sick person!

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