BF2S Forums Israeli Heavy-Handedness

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2037/bshhv9.th.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2658/bsh2gj1.jpg

Anyone can find a picture, take it out of context, and put some inflammatory words under it to invoke a certain emotion.

Fuckin' Nazi GWB.

Mmmkay, lets see.







I win. Seriously, they're actually Islamic Fascists, unless you're retarded and think Bush is actually a Nazi.

How are those pictures more truthful than mine?  Because you found more?  Furthermore, they are all from the same site, unlike mine.  Fascism and Nazis are not the same, take a politics class and educate yourself.  I am not going to turn this thread into you and I battling pictures of propaganda.  But I must be the one retarded for posting pictures and saying out of context they could be anything.  Not you, who keeps posting said pictures.  Some armed forces actually salute like that, Nazi Germany being one of them.  Mind you, in no way am I condoning or condemning what they do, just making the point that their salute does not make them Nazis.  Seriously, do some research on Nazi Germany's social arguments and tell me Arabs would support them.

tell me what you think....







                    







اﻟﺒﻌﺚ


















Hypothesis:  The Baath Arab Socialist Party of Syria (BASP) attributes its foundations to the foreign influences of the German National Socialist party.


Variables: The dependent variable is the formation of the Baath party in Damascus, Syria in 1947.  The independent variable is the policy of foreign aid (economic and military) from Nazi Germany to the founding members of the BASP.



Expectations:  In the presented claim, I would like to find irrefutable evidence showing that Nazi Germany was indirectly responsible for the formation of the Baath party which still exists today.  I hope to discover some form of direct ties between National Socialism and the modern Pan-Arab movement, which the BASP claims to be the driving force behind.



Evidence that supports above claim:

    Europe during the mid-1930’s was politically unstable at best.  New thoughts and ideologies were tested and formulated in governments all around the region leading to the chaos that is known as World War Two.  Fascism, Marxism and National Socialism, words and political systems that were non-existent one hundred years ago before this time, were now responsible for a massive wave of new thought and ideology.  This environment led to the beginning of the modern Pan-Arab movement and the end to European colonialism in the Middle East.
The origins of the Baath Party could be found on the streets of Paris, France during these turbulent times.  Michel Aflaq, a Greek Orthodox Christian and Salah al-Din al-Bitar, a Sunni Muslim, are the two men attributed to the founding of the Baath Party.  Aflaq and al-Bitar were both members of wealthy merchant families in Damascus and were attending the Sorbonne University of Paris.  Here is where these two first organized their Baathist ideology of Arab nationalism and socialism and created Syrian study groups to discuss these radical ideas.  Not only was Arab unity the only topics for discussion but, both men found the Arab situation very similar to the Germans.   In fact, Michel Aflaq was responsible for circulating Arabic translated copies of Mein Kampf to his study group.  He believed that Arabs should use the National Socialist model as a guide to building a unified Arab state.
Aflaq and Al-Bitar continued their partnership returning to Syria after their education in France was over.  At the time, Syria was a French colonial possession ceded by the Ottoman Empire after World War One.  Bitar and Aflaq were both school teachers using that medium to promote their philosophy.  By 1941 France was overrun and conquered by Nazi Germany and all of its territorial possessions now belonged to the Vichy French regime, whose actual sovereignty as a nation is questionable since Germany was really behind all its decisions.  It was at this time that the Al-Baath movement came into full force (the actual date is in question, some sources say 1940 while others say 1943).  Baathist saw themselves as allies of Nazi Germany in their quest to rid the Middle East of its European colonial status.  When Iraqis staged a military uprising against the British garrison in Baghdad, the founders of the Baathist movement organized and sponsored demonstrations in Damascus in support of the rebellion.
Germany received diplomatic envoys from various Pan-Arab revolutionaries across the Middle East requesting aid in their fight against colonialism and indeed Germany obliged. The Nazi Foreign Minister Ribbentrop was personally interested in grabbing land in Iraq and Syria.  There are two distinct reasons why Germany wanted to expand their sphere of influence in the region.  One was the more immediate and strategically significant factor of control of the vital oil lines, which the Allies had in their favor.  The other was much darker and sinister.  The German final solution required that a certain amount of land in Palestine should be set aside for the relocation and extermination of European Jews after the war were to have been won.  Many Arabs supported this idea since Zionism is seen as the enemy to the more fanatical. 
Baath is the Arabic word for “Resurrection” or “rebirth” and their official platform is freedom from colonial rule, Arab unity and Arab socialism.  Arab socialism could be defined as the redistribution of private property and wealth formally held by the colonial powers as well as nationalizing the means of production, but, only within the constraints of traditional Arab values of private property and inheritance.  On April 7th, 1947, one year after France left Syria, the Baath Arab Socialist Party was officially formed with the establishment of a constitution and a standing committee.  Regional headquarters were established all through the Middle East. In 1963, the BASP took control of the Syrian government in a bloodless coup de tat and have been in control ever since.   

 
   


Evidence against the claim:


    Given the date the BASP was officially founded in 1947 and the collapse of the German regime in 1945, one cannot be responsible for the others creation.  Any kind of power or influence Germany had in the region was utterly wiped out as consequence to its defeat in WW2.  Although sympathetic to the Nazi cause, there have not been any documented cases of Aflaq or Bitar meeting with any kind of German agent for the purposes of receiving aid.
Germany was sending aid to Syria, as well as other Arab satellites, but the money was being handled by the French Vichy, not the Arabs, and that all changed in 1941 when the allies defeated the Vichy.  Once the allies established military control of the area (by successfully defeating the Iraqi insurrection and the German Afika Korps in Egypt) Germany abandon its immediate hopes of conquest and worried more about the Soviet Red Army inching its way to Berlin slowly but surely.   The bottom line is that Nazi money was being sent into the Middle East not to inspire another arm of the Nazi party and gain an ally, but instead to undermine the British control of the region and to gain access to vital resources.
    Although Michel Aflaq’s Nazi sympathies are well documented, he was dedicated to starting the Baath movement by non-violent means.  He was a proponent of democratic rule by way of Arab Socialism.  The stated goal of the Baath party was not to emulate any world philosophies, but to promote an Arab political ideology free from any kind of foreign influence, whether it be Nazism, Marxism or Western capitalism.


“Freedom, Unity and Socialism”

-Baath Arab Socialist Party platform


Conclusions:

    National Socialism does not have the historical monopoly on fanatical governments.  That said, I have studied the evidence and I am led to believe that Nazi Germany is NOT responsible for the formation of the BASP.   Although the founders of the Baath party may have been inspired by the actions of Nazi Germany, it most certainly was not the first movement for a united Arab land. Although Nazism and the BASP do share some philosophical ties (one nation, one people) the root cause in Baathism is not anti-bolshevism or anti-Semitism, as is the Nazi doctrine, but freedom from colonial rule in a secular Arab society.
    I ask this question in order to justify my conclusion.  Did Germany give money to the Baath party before it was officially organized? No. Not specifically but Germany did send aid to other Arab nationalist groups. Did the BASP model itself from the National Socialist experience?  I believe it did, but I believe the BASP would have existed whether the Nazis took power or not.  Why did the BASP gain such a broad support base following WW2? Because the BASP was the only political group in the Middle East that appealed to the masses, that had a set and established ideology and at the same time seemed to be the only answer to combat the creation of the state of Israel, an issue that was at the top of Arab concern.

Sources:

http://www.iraqinews.com/party_baath_party.shtml

http://www.baath-party.org/

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Re … p?ID=16533

http://baath-party.biography.ms/

http://www.venusproject.com/ecs/aFarrokhArab.html

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac … os/sy.html

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/baath.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baath_Part … 27th_Party




it got me an "A"

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-07-17 11:04:53)

$teiner wrote:

Lol you ignorant ass, what inference did i give that i had no clue as to the differences between Nazism and Fascism? And using your argument, where did i call them Nazis? I didn't, i called them Fascists.

Sorry, you show them doing a nazi salute, then call them fascists.  That's the inference.

$teiner wrote:

And christ alive, is there anyone on the planet who is not aware of the designs the Nazi's had on, well, humanity To even suggest that there is an 'argument' behind the Final Solution is quite sickening, so why don't you think about what you've inferred in your post, and refrain from making further contributions to the thread.

I didn't say Final Solution, which was one of their social policies.  I was referring to their whole platform as it dealt with anyone not an "Aryan" under their terms.  Like I said, I don't want to hijack this informative and relevant topic, few posts aside.

Now the US is preparing to evacuate its citizens out of Lebanon, as fear mounts that this tension will escalate into a new crisis.  Interesting how the news sites such as Reuters, MSN, and BBC all refer to Hezbollah, not Lebanon as the ones carrying out the attacks.  Israel has said that it won't give up the aggression until Hezbollah is disarmed, Israel gets its soldiers back, and the Lebanese army controls the southern portion of Lebanon.  According to the Prime Minister of Israel, Israel has no intentions of occupying Southern Lebanon.

Pug wrote:

Hopes for sanity.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13897540/

if lebanese troops are deployed along the southern border, Lebanon will be under another civil war and that hurts Israel more than it helps.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

on another note, Bush's take on the situation...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13901534/

"I felt like telling Kofi to get on the phone with Assad and make something happen. We're not blaming Israel and we're not blaming the Lebanese government."

God bless him

hezbollah is stupid, now they are being nazis by attacking civilians..... damn terroists

|AIA| DAS wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Breaking unconfirmed news from Ha'aretz: Hezbollah have misfired a missile with a range of 200km!!!!!! That could hit the nuclear facilities in Dimona!!

Oh Joy of Joys... Keep it your pants Cameron.


Unconfirmed reports coming out of the BBC say Irish people are drunk 20 out of 24 hours of the day.

It's a shame people like you are let near the internet.  But then you're probably the same person that says freedom of speech means you're allowed to say whatever you want.

|AIA| DAS wrote:

Unconfirmed reports coming out of the BBC say Irish people are drunk 20 out of 24 hours of the day.

Oh really? When did they release these reports??? They kind of confirm one of the main stereotypical images of Irish people don't they. OMG!!! Our reputations will be in tatters!!

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-17 13:19:04)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/4646/guinesszv3.png

Too Funny!

I just find it hard to beleive only 1 person was out there.

|AIA| DAS wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/4646/guinesszv3.png

Too Funny!

I just find it hard to beleive only 1 person was out there.

LOL! Cos there's usually about 6 or 7 thousand outside. It quietens down a bit on monday mornings admittedly. I'm actually typing this on my laptop directly outside St. James' Gate!!

It's great that when someone has no good point to make they resort to cheap laughs and racial stereotyping. It makes me feel glad to be a human.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-17 13:54:08)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

no, we all took turns
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3528/guiness2av4.png

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3279/guiness3qc3.png

BEST GODDAMNED MUSEUM IN DUBLIN!

Although the Casino in Marino was amazing. 

Shame me and the lady spent so much time in our hotel feeling ill.