BF2S Forums Israeli Heavy-Handedness

Lisik wrote:

yes i can repet! FUCK ALL ARABS! KILL THEM! FUCK THEM FUCKING OFF! u have problem with it? i think 55 years of terror against israel - gives to israel right to hate arabs!

Please forgive my Israeli friend, he's talking out of anger. Although I'm part Argentinian part Israeli, I don't think Israel has a right to hate all Arabs. Desperate people, from both sides, tend to channel their anger into hatred. It's unfortunate, no doubt about it. I think it's important to distinguish between ordinary Arabs and terrorists. Here in Israel, this distinction has slowly disappeared. The word "Arab" has become a synonym with "terrorist" and vise versa. All Israelis (including myself) are tired of being bombed in buses, fired upon, and bombarded with rockets. In fact, I'm writing these words inside a bomb shelter in the town of Carmiel. When I first heard the siren, I ran frantically to the nearest cover. luckily for me, the shelter is just across the street. 20 seconds passed and then 3 loud explosions were heard. You can imagine what I must have felt...  I didn't got out of the shelter so I still don't know what is the extent of the damage. It's not the first time rockets hit this town and it's probably not the last.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

I have never once condoned the actions of Hezbollah, not here or anywhere else.  I think what Hezbollah did amounts to a "cheap shot" and should never have taken place.  The fact remains that Israel is now using it's military to murder innocent civilian (once again) on a mass scale.  Israel may have stood a chance of getting their soldiers back through negotiations, had their history shown that they would honor such an agreement.  As we all know, there are still Palestinians in captivity that Israel promised to release in a prisoner swap and never did....

Your at it again!! Your saying (to put my words in your mouth) "Israeli's are evil bastards for killing people but Hezbollah's action are a 'cheap shot'". A cheap shot!! Here's an idea, go to Israel and tell the families of the murdered Israeli's that it was a cheap shot. Yes Israeli's are killing civilians and yes thats bad; BUT SO IS WHAT THE TERRORISTS ARE DOING. It is not a "cheap shot" you fuckwit, its fucking wrong!! Killing civilians is wrong, the difference between you and I is that I'll happily agree that its wrong for both sides to be doing it whilst you in your bubble have serious issues in condemning terrorist and criminal activities.

You have not one condoned their actions but saying its a "cheap shot" is frankly disgusting; it belittles the lives that have been senselessly lost on both sides, both Palestinian and Israeli.

The fact does remain that Israel is using its military to strike at targets with a total disregard either for the immediate human cost or the long term cost (I'm thinking of the economic ruin that Lebanon will be in after this and the famine that will follow). By the same token, Hezbollah blindly firing rockets into Israeli villages is not a cheap shot, its still "using it's military to murder innocent civilian (once again) on a mass scale".

First of all, you need to stop calling me and other people names, it only shows your ignorance and hatred on a large scale.

2nd:  Hezbolla did not kill civilians, they killed Israeli soldiers, big difference.  And it was a cheap shot, and wrong.  They should not have done that, but Israels response is far worse.  Israel, it appears, was just looking for an excuse to get into Lebanon again, and now, guess what?  They have stated today that they are going to go into Lebanon and occupy the southern portion...hmmm, will it take 20 years to get that land back I wonder? <---Cheap shot also

I agree lives on both sides have been lost, but you are missing the bigger picture here...had Israel never invaded Lebanon to begin with, Hezbollah would not exist and have Israels destruction as their primary goal.  You reap what you sow...

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

A home was promised to the Jews.  NEVER was a state promised to them...Israel was created by the Jews ILLEGALLY murdering the people and stealing their land, get that through your head.

Just this through your head fuckwit. The Arabs are not going to stop until Israel has been wiped out. They have stated this time and time again and have had their cause aided by the other Arab countries in the region. They do not accept ANY of the land that the Israeli's claim for their own whether its the original land promised to them or the land they've annexed since (stole if you like). A home was promised to them and then... nothing. They took what was promised (rightly or imo wrongly) to them, yes it was wrong but they still had the RIGHT to live in peace which at no point have they been allowed to do. Some idiot (be it a terrorist or an Israeli) always kicks something off and the civilians get butchered.

I agree they have said they won't stop until Israel ceases to exist, and why is that I wonder?  Maybe because for decades Israel has murdered their people stolen their land and forced them to live in squalor, all with the backing of the U.S. 

Israel did NOT take what was promised, they took that and then more, A LOT MORE.  Then they refused to give it back and built walls to keep people out.  They moved their military in and killed those that tried to keep their homes.  How can you blame them for trying to take back what it rightfully theirs?  You are consumed by your hatred for them, you can not see objectively, and frankly, it appears that you don't want to...

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

1st of all, Israel has used it's military for decades to systematically kill Palestinians, invade Lebanon, and steal land to further their expansionist goals, the Palestinians have no military, and Lebanon, well theirs amounts to nothing more than a group of men armed like our police.  It's no wonder the Palestinians resort to suicide bombings, it's all they have left to fight back with...BTW, I have never condoned suicide bombings, I abhor them.

Palestinians have no military you are quite correct. What does Hamas do again, please remind me? Oh thats right a) run the Palestinian government and b) blow up Israeli's. They may not have a military in the conventional sense of the word but there are people who will use military hardware to "bring death to their enemies". Again, fucking wake up; both sides are killing people and both sides are claiming that they have no other choice. Your sitting there trying to pin 100% of the blame on Israel is one of the core reasons why there hasn't been any lasting peace; neither side will will accept that they "started it" so they'll fight in pure bloody mindedness. Until the land is given back by the Israeli's, the violence stops, people stop trying to apportion blame and the question of reparations (for both sides as both sides have been mass murdering people for years) is dealt with, there will be no peace.

Yes they do, and I ask you WHY?  Because they have no other means to fight back and get what is rightfully theirs.  The whole world has stated that Israel has no claim or right to that land, but Israel has consistently lifted it's middle finger to the world and said tough crap.  You seem to forget that the Palestinians agreed to the pullout, which I might add, Israel did only partially...how can the Palestinians have their land back when Israel leaves it's military there so they can't move in???

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

They are not MY vaunted Hezbollah, they are Israels thorn in the side, created because Israel invaded Lebanon illegally.

They are not "thorns in the side" of Israel, they're terrorists and criminals in exactly the same way that the killers in the IDF are criminals as well. Stop taking the softly softly approach to the terrorists and call them what they are. They, and Israeli's that have killed civilians, are criminals and need to be dealt with through the judicial system.

I am not taking the softy approach, I am only stating facts.  They exist because of Israel.  They are labeled terrorists, yes.  But they exist because of Israel's actions.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

Israel gave what, a whole 8 hours before they started bombing Lebanon?  Yeah that's enough time for diplomacy to work?

As I said earlier, the U.S. policy towards Israel is ass backwards.  We blindly allow them to do whatever they want, even when the rest of the world disagrees with Israeli actions.  We are their only friend.  Quit being consumed by your anger and try to look at the facts objectively.  Israel is facing these problems because of their policies and actions, and for no other reason.

8 hours is not enough, but do you honestly and truly believe that Israel had the information on where these terrorists were and they did nothing? They wouldn't have told the Lebanese government before this crisis kicked off that "oh by the way, that village is being used by Hezbollah as a staging area to attack us, can you please sort them out?"  If you do think that the Lebanese had no idea at all that the terrorists were there, then your even thicker then i thought. If the Israeli's didn't tell the Lebanese, the CIA and MI6 would have in the following of their policy to root out terrorists. They may not have known about all the sites and some of the information the Israeli's had will undoubtedly have been wrong but there is still quite a lot that Lebanon could have done, but choose not to.

Its not the US policy to help Israel that i was commenting on. I was commenting on the similar goals that Israel were fulfilling that was common with the West. The US and the UK have invaded two countries that have harboured terrorists (although that wasn't their sole aim). If you want to talk about the US policy towards Israel in general that is something that the people of the US need to sort out. The opinions of a Brit won't matter.

I know that Lebanon knows of the Hezbollah existence, to claim otherwise would be grossly negligent.  My point is that Israels response is wrong.  They are killing innocent civilians, they have no regard for anyone except themselves, as they have shown over the past several decades.  Does Lebanon need to do something about Hezbollah?  Yes.  Will they?  No.  Hezbollah is (pretty much) Lebanon's only defense force...

Jainus wrote:

And you finish off your post with more one sided bashing; "Israel is facing these problems because of their policies and actions, and for no other reason". Israel is facing these problems and it has escalated to this level because neither (yes thats right neither side) will make concessions. There is a total lack of compromise on either side that leads to the circle of violence.

The Palestinians made concessions and agreed to the terms of the pullout.  They were then met with an Israeli gunship shelling a beach and killing innocent Palestinian men, women and children vacationing there...what do you really expect their response to be?  Once again the Israeli military was used to kill innocents...it is a vicious cycle of violence that will never end.

Jainus wrote:

For the last time; its not just Israel that are at fault here. Both sides are killing people and both sides need to stop. Killing civilians regardless of their race is wrong. Your trying to paint me into the Israeli corner but if you actually read all the posts here, you will see that at every turn i have, not just, not condoned but actively condemned all of the illegal actions on both sides. With your comment about "cheap shots" can you say the same thing? I didn't think so.

I never said that it was ONLY Israel's fault, although the root of the problem is traced back to Israels illegal taking of land and murdering of the indigenous population.  Facts are facts, and I am not blinded by the atrocities committed by either side, but seeing as how Israel is a STATE recognized by the U.N., they are held to a greater standard which they have never reached.  They have constantly thumbed their nose at the world and done whatever they want, and they will continue to do so until someone steps in and stops them...

delta4bravo*nl* wrote:

Now who is the fucking racist??

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73546332@N00/

Fuck em good this time once and for all.

whana laught? take the guns off... and u got a nicely civilian lebanon femaly!

am i wrong?

Well guess what they are "Legal" now. Happy?

Liberals.

Last edited by topthrill05 (2006-07-17 09:01:56)

Tell me something! Are u realy think that arabs about to bring peace to this world?

Lisik wrote:

Tell me something! Are u realy think that arabs about to bring peace to this world?

No I don't. Nor do I think Israel is gonna bring peace to this world!!!

|AIA| DAS wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

[DETX] arabeater wrote:

The prisoners at Gitmo are not legal combatants, as neither are the Hamas and Hezbollah fighters. So they are under 0 laws and can be dealt with accordingly. Israeli troops are legal combatants and if captured should be bound by the Geneva Conventions but however they were not captured by legal combatants so I wouldnt expect them to be treated as such.

It just gets better and better on this forum. Someone advocating imprisonment without charge or trial. 'Legal combatants'? That's just semantic bullshit. If you wanna take someone in for a crime, be it a military one or a civilian one: charge him, put him on trial, then either stick him in jail or let him walk. 'Enemy combatant' is just Orwellian wordsmanship to circumvent the Geneva Convention.

Detx, Makes a good point, but you wouldn't know, the Irish never go to war, why would they need the Geneva Convention? 

I've seen statements from you on this forum calling other people pro jewish cunts and the like, debates, whilst spirited should maintain decorum, when you call people names, you lose credibility.  Now please refrain from the name calling.

/Sarcasm
Before one of the Americans in this forum sends over a Girl Scout troop to kick the Irish Military's ass

LOL. You're so funny. Ever heard of the Irish Rangers - one of the best elite units in the world. The regular army - why would we need a good one - we're a neutral country: all we do is send troops for peacekeeping, not warmongering.

Not that I agree with their less salubrious activities or their civilian-targeting missions I would dare you to say the girl scout troop comment to what some would consider 'our army' - the Provisional IRA. One of the mostly highly advanced, professional and ruthless guerrilla armies in the world.

I would never say pro-jewish. At least I'm fairly certain I haven't said it. I make sure to differentiate between criticising Israel on the one hand (a nation/government) and criticising jews (a creed/race) on the other. I'm not a racist. I find you're allusion to me being one insulting and dispute it vehemently.

PS There has been ZERO name-calling in this thread and many other threads of mine (from me anyway). I may have called names in a couple of threads but not in most serious threads and certainly not in this one.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-17 13:21:11)

Well i can see why you support Hezbollah now, classifying the PIRA as your national army. Sicko.

Since people started making wild stereotypes.

|AIA| DAS wrote:

Yawn...

Your responses make me sleepy.

Well maybe it's past your bedtime.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i think cameronpoe is pro-pale because of his country's history with the UK and his understanding of the British being behind the first formations of modern Israel.  Thats understandable.  I like the way you present your arguments Cameron but I will never understand completely where you are coming from for obvious reasons. And that is the true argument I have with ya.  I would never know what its like being occupied or being a member of a nation who has occupation in its recent history. But I have been the occupier, and I do understand the anger that is felt when innocents are wronged.

I'm sure he's quite familiar with the concept though, if he knows anything about the PIRA, the original terrorist organisation.

$teiner wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i think cameronpoe is pro-pale because of his country's history with the UK and his understanding of the British being behind the first formations of modern Israel.  Thats understandable.  I like the way you present your arguments Cameron but I will never understand completely where you are coming from for obvious reasons. And that is the true argument I have with ya.  I would never know what its like being occupied or being a member of a nation who has occupation in its recent history. But I have been the occupier, and I do understand the anger that is felt when innocents are wronged.

I'm sure he's quite familiar with the concept though, if he knows anything about the PIRA, the original terrorist organisation.

Steiner I'm under no illusions as to the various atrocities the IRA carried out.

Anyone can find a picture, take it out of context, and put some inflammatory words under it to invoke a certain emotion.

Fuckin' Nazi GWB.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-07-17 10:31:56)