No this is not the responsibility of the US or Europe but we can exert diplomatic pressure through the fact that Israel is so reliant on aid from our respective governments. I was expressing ire at the special treatment Israel receives.k30dxedle wrote:
Second part: Some Americans (government) do not represent all Americans, therefore American citizens and taxpayers should make them stop?
And why do they receive "special treatment"? Because they are a democracy in a land of tyrantsCameronPoe wrote:
I was expressing ire at the special treatment Israel receives.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
But their enemies are civialians is what my point was.CameronPoe wrote:
But not every civilian is the enemy is what my point is.M1-Lightning wrote:
And your catch all statement is that every target of Israel's is "a civilian preparing dinner in their kitchen or taking the dog for a walk." The militants attacking Israel are civilians, thus civilians are the enemy.CameronPoe wrote:
Yeah he was a civilian who blew up a load of children. Not a civilian preparing dinner in their kitchen or taking the dog for a walk. Your catch-all statement suggest that all arab civilians should be punished for the acts of a few.
BTW I was scolded earlier for this myself. Try not to make personal attacks please.
PS Maybe the US should have shelled Oklohama City when they were looking for McVeigh eh?
I think we are at cross purposes. We aren't arguing over anything, merely stating separate things.M1-Lightning wrote:
But their enemies are civialians is what my point was.CameronPoe wrote:
But not every civilian is the enemy is what my point is.M1-Lightning wrote:
And your catch all statement is that every target of Israel's is "a civilian preparing dinner in their kitchen or taking the dog for a walk." The militants attacking Israel are civilians, thus civilians are the enemy.
If you expect a standard from the Israeli's, then you should also expect a stanard from Hamas/Hezbollah. To condemn one but ignore the second creates the double standard that both sides say the other are promoting!!CameronPoe wrote:
I am just more critical of Israel because they are in the position of power and because they are regarded as a proper 'democracy' they should observe higher standards than those of less savoury nearby governments...
For the record - and you can search other threads where I have said this - civilians should not be targets - not Irish civilians, not Arab civilians, not Israeli citizens, not British citizens, not US citizens.....
I'm not trying to say that you do think civilians should be targets, your posts are quite clear. What i'm saying is you created a thread about Israeli heavy handedness but haven't once condemned the bombers/terrorists.
You have said that killing civi's is wrong - I agree with you. You have send Israeli shouldn't have killed civi's in revenge - again i agree with you. You HAVE skipped over saying that the bombers are also bad people. Israel is not an Evil Empire (my phrase, i'm not trying to pin that on anyone), they are a country surrounded by historical enemies and enemies who have stated time and again that they will not rest until Israel is destroyed. I don't know about anyone else, but that would scare the shit out of me!!
No. I think it might have more to do with big money and jewish political influence in the US, coupled with European guilt over the holocaust. It also happens to be a democracy for jews. Israeli arabs are treated like an underclass. Gerrymandered states are not what I consider shining bastions of democracy.King_County_Downy wrote:
And why do they receive "special treatment"? Because they are a democracy in a land of tyrantsCameronPoe wrote:
I was expressing ire at the special treatment Israel receives.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-13 13:56:09)
Yeah right! Iraq elected Saddam democratically. I think the votes were something like 100% pro-Saddam, 0% dead.King_County_Downy wrote:
And why do they receive "special treatment"? Because they are a democracy in a land of tyrantsCameronPoe wrote:
I was expressing ire at the special treatment Israel receives.
How exactly? We have (hopefully) all seen the list of UN resolutions that HM1 provided (cheers mate), what more are you after? A cut in the US aid budget would help, but it could also serve to push the Israeli's into more desperate action... I'm thinking thats not good!CameronPoe wrote:
No this is not the responsibility of the US or Europe but we can exert diplomatic pressure through the fact that Israel is so reliant on aid from our respective governments. I was expressing ire at the special treatment Israel receives.k30dxedle wrote:
Second part: Some Americans (government) do not represent all Americans, therefore American citizens and taxpayers should make them stop?
Plus, you've seen some of the posts from our American friends; it doesn't look like Israel is short of support across the Pond.
You're the one that tried to dispute my statement that "civilians are the enemy of Israel".Jainus wrote:
If you expect a standard from the Israeli's, then you should also expect a stanard from Hamas/Hezbollah. To condemn one but ignore the second creates the double standard that both sides say the other are promoting!!CameronPoe wrote:
I am just more critical of Israel because they are in the position of power and because they are regarded as a proper 'democracy' they should observe higher standards than those of less savoury nearby governments...
For the record - and you can search other threads where I have said this - civilians should not be targets - not Irish civilians, not Arab civilians, not Israeli citizens, not British citizens, not US citizens.....
I'm not trying to say that you do think civilians should be targets, your posts are quite clear. What i'm saying is you created a thread about Israeli heavy handedness but haven't once condemned the bombers/terrorists.
You have said that killing civi's is wrong - I agree with you. You have send Israeli shouldn't have killed civi's in revenge - again i agree with you. You HAVE skipped over saying that the bombers are also bad people. Israel is not an Evil Empire (my phrase, i'm not trying to pin that on anyone), they are a country surrounded by historical enemies and enemies who have stated time and again that they will not rest until Israel is destroyed. I don't know about anyone else, but that would scare the shit out of me!!
You got a good reason for that?Jainus wrote:
Now this i think we can agree on!! LolCameronPoe wrote:
That is a moronic statement. I hope you never get a position in some country's defence ministry.M1-Lightning wrote:
Civilians ARE the enemy.
I'm not going to expect a standard from Hezbollah or Hamas because I don't believe they're morally capable. I don't see them ever becoming standardbearers of morality, justice and honour. And they are certainly not shining examples of how a budding state should act. If they stuck solely to military targets then perhaps I would consider expecting more of them.Jainus wrote:
If you expect a standard from the Israeli's, then you should also expect a stanard from Hamas/Hezbollah. To condemn one but ignore the second creates the double standard that both sides say the other are promoting!!CameronPoe wrote:
I am just more critical of Israel because they are in the position of power and because they are regarded as a proper 'democracy' they should observe higher standards than those of less savoury nearby governments...
For the record - and you can search other threads where I have said this - civilians should not be targets - not Irish civilians, not Arab civilians, not Israeli citizens, not British citizens, not US citizens.....
I'm not trying to say that you do think civilians should be targets, your posts are quite clear. What i'm saying is you created a thread about Israeli heavy handedness but haven't once condemned the bombers/terrorists.
You have said that killing civi's is wrong - I agree with you. You have send Israeli shouldn't have killed civi's in revenge - again i agree with you. You HAVE skipped over saying that the bombers are also bad people. Israel is not an Evil Empire (my phrase, i'm not trying to pin that on anyone), they are a country surrounded by historical enemies and enemies who have stated time and again that they will not rest until Israel is destroyed. I don't know about anyone else, but that would scare the shit out of me!!
For the record. I condemn the shellings of Haifa and the other Israeli town whose name eludes me. I can't condemn their actions against the non-civilian Israeli military though because I believe their cause to be justified (well what I perceive to be their cause - a green line Palestinian state and right of return for refugees but not the annihilation of Israel).
Israel have good grounds to be afraid and ruthless when it comes to defending the existence of their state. I think they consistently choose the wrong tactics in ensuring their security. While the injustices of 1948 and 1967 remain unfixed there will never be peace within Israel or around it. Those injustices need to be addressed. Israel is the only one with the power to address these issues.
Why hasn't Marconious shut down this thread yet????
CameronPoe- Your Sig. pictures crack me up.
Why does it piss you off that the terrorist groups are finally getting what they wanted from Israel??? Obviously they didn't want peace or land because Israel gave them that but it was not enough for them. I believe it is time to start holding the countries the terrorist are from accountable (yes citizens and government). The only thing that can stop the terrorist are the Muslims. Just like the only thing that could stop Christian terrorists would be Christians. Yet I never seem to hear Muslims taking action against the terrorist when they attack non-Muslims. hmmmm.
Maybe Ireland should start taking in Palestian immigrants so they have a better life and are protected from Israel, or don't you want your family killed by a suicide bomber while eating out just because some terrorist group offered to give his family $10,000 if he did it to protest (fill in anything here).
Instead of France why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go vacation with your family in Palestine. I'm sure you would be in no danger, they are very reasonable people.
BTW- I am not a Nazi, You are the one who hates Jews.
CameronPoe- Your Sig. pictures crack me up.
Why does it piss you off that the terrorist groups are finally getting what they wanted from Israel??? Obviously they didn't want peace or land because Israel gave them that but it was not enough for them. I believe it is time to start holding the countries the terrorist are from accountable (yes citizens and government). The only thing that can stop the terrorist are the Muslims. Just like the only thing that could stop Christian terrorists would be Christians. Yet I never seem to hear Muslims taking action against the terrorist when they attack non-Muslims. hmmmm.
Maybe Ireland should start taking in Palestian immigrants so they have a better life and are protected from Israel, or don't you want your family killed by a suicide bomber while eating out just because some terrorist group offered to give his family $10,000 if he did it to protest (fill in anything here).
Instead of France why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go vacation with your family in Palestine. I'm sure you would be in no danger, they are very reasonable people.
BTW- I am not a Nazi, You are the one who hates Jews.
Last edited by Darth_Fleder (2006-07-13 14:16:52)
So what's your solution to all of this Poe? You seem to know everything. What should Isreal do?
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
The US vetoes practically all resolutions drafted condemning any actions Israel take effectively giving Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants. That is not healthy. The international communities wishing are not being addressed all because of a suspect 'special' relationship between the US and Israel.Jainus wrote:
How exactly? We have (hopefully) all seen the list of UN resolutions that HM1 provided (cheers mate), what more are you after? A cut in the US aid budget would help, but it could also serve to push the Israeli's into more desperate action... I'm thinking thats not good!CameronPoe wrote:
No this is not the responsibility of the US or Europe but we can exert diplomatic pressure through the fact that Israel is so reliant on aid from our respective governments. I was expressing ire at the special treatment Israel receives.k30dxedle wrote:
Second part: Some Americans (government) do not represent all Americans, therefore American citizens and taxpayers should make them stop?
Plus, you've seen some of the posts from our American friends; it doesn't look like Israel is short of support across the Pond.
It doesn't surprise me that most yanks think Israel are angels. It gets rammed down their throats in their media. FOX News is particularly bad. 'Fair and Balanced' LOL
I've been on holiday to Palestine thank you very much. It was very pleasant. Cheers for the reciprocal personal attacks too. I got scolded for my Hitler remark earlier.Major_Spittle wrote:
Why hasn't Marconious shut down this thread yet????
CameronPoe- Your Sig. pictures crack me up.
Why does it piss you off that the terrorist groups are finally getting what they wanted from Israel??? Obviously they didn't want peace or land because Israel gave them that but it was not enough for them. I believe it is time to start holding the countries the terrorist are from accountable (yes citizens and government). The only thing that can stop the terrorist are the Muslims. Just like the only thing that could stop Christian terrorists would be Christians. Yet I never seem to hear Muslims taking action against the terrorist when they attack non-Muslims. hmmmm.
Maybe Ireland should start taking in Palestian immigrants so they have a better life and are protected from Israel, or don't you want your family killed by a suicide bomber while eating out just because some terrorist group offered to give his family $10,000 if he did it to protest (fill in anything here).
Instead of France why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go vacation with your family in Palestine. I'm sure you would be in no danger, they are very reasonable people.
BTW- I am not a Nazi, You are the one who hates Jews.
You are not a reasonable person. You appear to be somewhat of an extremist. There is no way I can possibly bridge any differences with you because you are basically the antithesis of me. So I'm not gonna bother.
I don't have a solution. Never said I did. I know a lot of people have posted what isn't the solution though.King_County_Downy wrote:
So what's your solution to all of this Poe? You seem to know everything. What should Isreal do?
As opposed to the Iranians and North Koreans getting special treatment from Russia and China when it comes to any type of sanctions or condemnation.CameronPoe wrote:
The US vetoes practically all resolutions drafted condemning any actions Israel take effectively giving Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants. That is not healthy. The international communities wishing are not being addressed all because of a suspect 'special' relationship between the US and Israel.
Here's a news flash:
Every nation does what it sees fit to secure it's own interests. If it doesn't, it ceases to exist.
I am an American first and foremost. Therefore, I look at our best interests before I begin to even fathom caring about anyone elses.
Pretty much anyone is the Antithesis of you, for you are not logical and humans are creatures of logic.CameronPoe wrote:
I've been on holiday to Palestine thank you very much. It was very pleasant. Cheers for the reciprocal personal attacks too. I got scolded for my Hitler remark earlier.Major_Spittle wrote:
Why hasn't Marconious shut down this thread yet????
CameronPoe- Your Sig. pictures crack me up.
Why does it piss you off that the terrorist groups are finally getting what they wanted from Israel??? Obviously they didn't want peace or land because Israel gave them that but it was not enough for them. I believe it is time to start holding the countries the terrorist are from accountable (yes citizens and government). The only thing that can stop the terrorist are the Muslims. Just like the only thing that could stop Christian terrorists would be Christians. Yet I never seem to hear Muslims taking action against the terrorist when they attack non-Muslims. hmmmm.
Maybe Ireland should start taking in Palestian immigrants so they have a better life and are protected from Israel, or don't you want your family killed by a suicide bomber while eating out just because some terrorist group offered to give his family $10,000 if he did it to protest (fill in anything here).
Instead of France why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go vacation with your family in Palestine. I'm sure you would be in no danger, they are very reasonable people.
BTW- I am not a Nazi, You are the one who hates Jews.
You are not a reasonable person. You appear to be somewhat of an extremist. There is no way I can possibly bridge any differences with you because you are basically the antithesis of me. So I'm not gonna bother.
Yeah thanks. A civilian by definition is a non-combatant, i think what you mean is the terrorists/bombers hide amongst the civilian population. But that still doesn't change the fact that civilians aren't the enemy. What I think Poe is saying (putting my words in his mouth) is that, not every member of the population is carrying a weapon and trying to kill Israeli's and when Israeli kills civilians, its bad.M1-Lightning wrote:
You got a good reason for that?
The way your post is written, it reads like you are in favour of killing civilians because "they are the enemy". If you became the head of the army, that would give you some nice big targets to kill non-combatants for no gain and cover it under the guise of killing the enemy.
I think we need to draw a very firm line in between civilians (non-combatants if you like) and terrorists/freedom fighters/murderers/whatever you want to call them wouldn't you agree with that if nothing else?
I don't blame you for caring about your own first - I do too. Which puzzles me as to why you would defend a country that offers the US little or no strategic benefit....it doesn't even have oil....Erkut.hv wrote:
As opposed to the Iranians and North Koreans getting special treatment from Russia and China when it comes to any type of sanctions or condemnation.CameronPoe wrote:
The US vetoes practically all resolutions drafted condemning any actions Israel take effectively giving Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants. That is not healthy. The international communities wishing are not being addressed all because of a suspect 'special' relationship between the US and Israel.
Here's a news flash:
Every nation does what it sees fit to secure it's own interests. If it doesn't, it ceases to exist.
I am an American first and foremost. Therefore, I look at our best interests before I begin to even fathom caring about anyone elses.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-13 14:15:11)
My solution is to Nuke the Jews isn't that a solution ?
Before I would recieve about 20 neg karma but now I can say whatever I want
Before I would recieve about 20 neg karma but now I can say whatever I want
Last edited by alpinestar (2006-07-13 14:16:13)
I have warned you once about comments like this...
If you choose to ignore the warning again your posts will be deleted.
This does not strike me as 'friendly banter'.major_spittle wrote:
CameronPoe- Your Sig. pictures crack me up. You look like such a pencil dick, but the French Hooker looks doable.
If you choose to ignore the warning again your posts will be deleted.
Well, I'm proposing a solution to all of this. If the terrorists/muslims want a war, lets give it to them. Let them throw rocks at my tank and see what happens. I'm sick of having to sit on our hands while we are repeatedly slapped in the face. We got bigger and better guns. I say "bring it chickin fuckers. Here come the pain."CameronPoe wrote:
I don't have a solution. Never said I did. I know a lot of people have posted what isn't the solution though.King_County_Downy wrote:
So what's your solution to all of this Poe? You seem to know everything. What should Isreal do?
Last edited by King_County_Downy (2006-07-13 14:17:33)
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
I have been there. No Iraq, no Syria, no Iran, but pretty much everywhere else, including Jerusalem. Did I feel threatened the whole time? No. Was I cautious? Yes, just like anywhere else I travel.Major_Spittle wrote:
Instead of France why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go vacation with your family in Palestine. I'm sure you would be in no danger, they are very reasonable people.
Given that I have received over 200 karma points stating various degrees of agreement with comments I've made over the past few months (not all but most) I think your assertion is probably wrong. And by the way - I am highly logical. I am an engineer by trade. If I wasn't logical I'd be out of a job in a flash.Major_Spittle wrote:
Pretty much anyone is the Antithesis of you, for you are not logical and humans are creatures of logic.CameronPoe wrote:
I've been on holiday to Palestine thank you very much. It was very pleasant. Cheers for the reciprocal personal attacks too. I got scolded for my Hitler remark earlier.Major_Spittle wrote:
Why hasn't Marconious shut down this thread yet????
CameronPoe- Your Sig. pictures crack me up.
Why does it piss you off that the terrorist groups are finally getting what they wanted from Israel??? Obviously they didn't want peace or land because Israel gave them that but it was not enough for them. I believe it is time to start holding the countries the terrorist are from accountable (yes citizens and government). The only thing that can stop the terrorist are the Muslims. Just like the only thing that could stop Christian terrorists would be Christians. Yet I never seem to hear Muslims taking action against the terrorist when they attack non-Muslims. hmmmm.
Maybe Ireland should start taking in Palestian immigrants so they have a better life and are protected from Israel, or don't you want your family killed by a suicide bomber while eating out just because some terrorist group offered to give his family $10,000 if he did it to protest (fill in anything here).
Instead of France why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go vacation with your family in Palestine. I'm sure you would be in no danger, they are very reasonable people.
BTW- I am not a Nazi, You are the one who hates Jews.
You are not a reasonable person. You appear to be somewhat of an extremist. There is no way I can possibly bridge any differences with you because you are basically the antithesis of me. So I'm not gonna bother.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-13 14:21:35)