Pages: 1 2

 

2006-07-12 15:30:16
duffry
Moderator Emeritus
+148|6842|Cheshire, UK
http://the-dmz-site.com/server_mayhem.shtml

Todd_Angelo wrote:

No, actually it wasn't aimed at you. If I had been talking directly to you I would have addressed my comment to you specifically; I'm hardly the shy and retiring type
No, true, fair comment, but it does put me in that set. TBH though, it's not something I would be bothered about.

Todd_Angelo wrote:

I don't agree with this part of the rules and anybody who thinks it's right I think is shortsighted, that's as far as it goes.
That's your opinion and I'm not knocking you for it but lets be clear for everyone, it's your opinion.

Todd_Angelo wrote:

And for the record: if I were dismissive of your efforts with regard to organising the event I wouldn't have given you karma at least twice, with comments thanking/complimenting you for your help in the organisation and running, now would I? Nor would I have posted supportive comments about things like the karma you'd received from twats who think snipers are useless who'd negged you just for your part in this, e.g. here.
I thank you for your support and honestly do appreciate it (as with all who have shown support in whatever way).
However, I didn't say you were dismissive, I said that with that by calling the event pointless you were being dismissive.

Todd_Angelo wrote:

The competition is silly and will prove nothing, but that much was clear from the outset; however as soon as you mix the kits up for combat it becomes a travesty. It's either a medics v. snipers battle or it's not, is how I see it.

Catching transgressors on the fly during a busy 64-player match isn't going to be feasible IMO, although I'm eager to be proved wrong.
OK, so a little insight into how the catching of transgressors will work may help here.

We have a pretty sophisticated server monitor (as demonstrated here) which will be constantly monitored by a couple of DMZ admins. They will be reporting to ZULU and myself, through vent, anyone they see with the 'wrong' kit.
We will be in game and have spawned on each side then suicided, we will then be able to cycle through players and follow the action. If we see, or have reported to us, a player with the wrong kit we will follow them to see if they break the 'excessive use' rule.
If they do then we will inform another admin to 'issue a yellow', they will be tracking which players have had yellows and issue reds appropriately.

This process is manageable and effective at spotting people who break the rules as I have set them.
It would be very difficult to stop all use of the other teams kit.

That's the practical reasoning. I also have a 'spirit of the thing' argument for the rules as set which may help (but probably not):
While I see the swapping of a players kit, and the subsequent extended use of it, as basically playing the 'wrong' kit set (bad). I see the quick change within a situation differently. If the mechanics of the game were that a players kit was (as in RL) as load of stuff in their hands or in webbing then a player shooting an enemy soldier and then grabbing some explosives from the corpses bag (for example) would not mean they had become that enemy's specialist class but was merely using stuff found lying about the place. This is the spirit I was aiming for with this rule. It's not the same as saying that 'a USMC guy getting in a Vod doesn't become a MEC guy' but on that side of 'the line'.

I see the other argument and may subscribe to it if it weren't for the technical limitations and the belief that being draconian will impede the fun, I might subscribe to it. I don't think I'm being shortsighted at all, in fact i have thought very carefully about this event, I just see it differently to you. I'm sure we'll have to agree to disagree but I wanted you to know my thinking. I hope you appreciate that I'm not trying to argue the toss with you but felt you deserved to know that I am not merely disregarding your opinion.

Kmarion wrote:

It's called catering to one particular side. Keep it fair but keep it BF2.... Change ALL the aspects of the game and it is no longer even BF2.
Not sure what you're saying here.
2006-07-12 15:37:07
duffry
Moderator Emeritus
+148|6842|Cheshire, UK

Aslan_the_Creator wrote:

I played the Karkand round........ It was an onslaught.  Of course I was on the sniper team. (lol)  I think that the medics shouldnt be able to have shock paddles, just my opinion because in real games the whole team isnt medics and the whole team isn't a sniper.  The medics with their rifles were enough to tear us to shreds, shoot one, kill one, revive, shoot one, kill one, revive, shoot one, kill one, revive. That's what I felt like so I don't really see the point in my joining the real match because it is pointless and it WILL be an onslaught...  But thats just my opinion.
That's the whole freakin' point!

Medics laid down the challenge, snipers accepted. Please, everyone. The rules have been set for a while now and ARE NOT changing for this match. You know what the situation is, make the most of it.

Personally I think the snipers have the harder job but not impossible and with good play backed up bu good teamwork and commanding they CAN win this. But only if they show solidarity and team play. Leave petulance at the door and this will be fun for all, even if one side gets owned.
2006-07-12 15:53:06
BabySpinach
Phone Spammer
+207|6594|Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Hah, seems how 4 out of the 7 people on the snipers team that were in Teamspeak DIDN'T even have mics and the rest were not talking at all... Well ALL of the medics in Teamspeak had mics and were communicating and using teamwork, I would have to say that the medics will win.

Last edited by BabySpinach13 (2006-07-12 15:53:46)

2006-07-12 15:55:57
the_outsider38
Microsoft Poster Child
+83|6697|Vancouver BC Canada

usmarine2005 wrote:

pure_beef_69 wrote:

I would like to congratulate Alpha today on the speed of this thread closing, and this is no sarcasm because i just made a retarded post and in seconds it was closed.

thats all i have to say. Thanks
LOL

http://img57.echo.cx/img57/9320/banhim1vg.jpg
Thats awesome +1 to Alpha
2006-07-12 15:56:48
duffry
Moderator Emeritus
+148|6842|Cheshire, UK

BabySpinach13 wrote:

Hah, seems how 4 out of the 7 people on the snipers team that were in Teamspeak DIDN'T even have mics and the rest were not talking at all... Well ALL of the medics in Teamspeak had mics and were communicating and using teamwork, I would have to say that the medics will win.
If that is the case in the match I would have to agree. While paddles and clays are a big part of this, the winning team will be the best trained and most disciplined and have the best communication.
Simple.
2006-07-12 16:03:37
Zulu_Soldier
Member
+15|6513

BabySpinach13 wrote:

Hah, seems how 4 out of the 7 people on the snipers team that were in Teamspeak DIDN'T even have mics and the rest were not talking at all... Well ALL of the medics in Teamspeak had mics and were communicating and using teamwork, I would have to say that the medics will win.
You should have signed up.
2006-07-13 05:03:15
Barrakuda777
Member
+86|6739|Somewhere near a shrub or rock
Are commanders allowed? I cant remember and Mr.Numbers was dropping it on snipers like there was no tomorrow. Aside from the fact that there is no real skill involved in this and it does not really test the snipers or the medics in any way, medics have the revive ability which if arty is allowed is instantly a distinct advantage as they can recover these tickets... snipers cant.

Boo hoo i know.... i jumped on comm for snipers to retalliate, but that is boring and not why i found this idea / challenge intresting!

Why have transports at all? The medic team seemed intent on wresting every advantage from the rules as possible, on karkand the always travelled from flag to flag in transports.... that surely takes away the point of sniping as... there in a vehicle!??!?! Clever by the medics to use them to close on snipers and then spew out ak toting squads but not really in the spirit to be fair!
Hell, this would be better if the gun  on the transports fired..... as they may try to shoot you and you finally get a target in the turrets! Excuse me if i dont carry the m95, before anyone suggests it

Snipers also were caught out as they did not use transports... my best advice would be that they ALL get a vehicle and just run over the medics as this is pretty much where it was going... WHATS THE POINT OF THIS FRIENDLY CHALLENGE AGAIN?
The way it was going it was, here are the rules... who can weasle the biggest advantage out of them first...

This brings me on to the HALO choper tacktics used on wake (shortly before i left), all the USMC jumped in a helo who took off to the stratosphere and spewed troops directly onto any flag they wanted with impunity... whats the point? It was a nice trick but it kind of defeats the object of the challenge. Hats off to them for the communication and the teamwork was brilliant!

I guess it comes down to this.... the only vehicle that should be allowed on either map is boats... otherwise its not a test of medics vs snipers but rather one of best use of vehicle tactics IMHO.


Kooda
2006-07-13 05:29:27
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6604|132 and Bush

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Are commanders allowed? I cant remember and Mr.Numbers was dropping it on snipers like there was no tomorrow. Aside from the fact that there is no real skill involved in this and it does not really test the snipers or the medics in any way, medics have the revive ability which if arty is allowed is instantly a distinct advantage as they can recover these tickets... snipers cant.

Boo hoo i know.... i jumped on comm for snipers to retalliate, but that is boring and not why i found this idea / challenge intresting!

Why have transports at all? The medic team seemed intent on wresting every advantage from the rules as possible, on karkand the always travelled from flag to flag in transports.... that surely takes away the point of sniping as... there in a vehicle!??!?! Clever by the medics to use them to close on snipers and then spew out ak toting squads but not really in the spirit to be fair!
Hell, this would be better if the gun  on the transports fired..... as they may try to shoot you and you finally get a target in the turrets! Excuse me if i dont carry the m95, before anyone suggests it

Snipers also were caught out as they did not use transports... my best advice would be that they ALL get a vehicle and just run over the medics as this is pretty much where it was going... WHATS THE POINT OF THIS FRIENDLY CHALLENGE AGAIN?
The way it was going it was, here are the rules... who can weasle the biggest advantage out of them first...

This brings me on to the HALO choper tacktics used on wake (shortly before i left), all the USMC jumped in a helo who took off to the stratosphere and spewed troops directly onto any flag they wanted with impunity... whats the point? It was a nice trick but it kind of defeats the object of the challenge. Hats off to them for the communication and the teamwork was brilliant!

I guess it comes down to this.... the only vehicle that should be allowed on either map is boats... otherwise its not a test of medics vs snipers but rather one of best use of vehicle tactics IMHO.


Kooda
It appears to me that you are tying to change this into something that is not  even close to bf2. I would refer you to the original post to try and understand why this was setup in the first place. The goal here is to see who has the best team player kit in BF2. Yes I think snipers would do better in bf2 if there were no commanders but I have bad news for you, they do. I have in-fact read the rules of the match and you better believe we will play to win while following the rules. Tactics wins matches, skills are for personal glory.

I here all this talk about make it fair, make it even.
*We all have the same thing to use including arty,uav,scans,and vehicles.
*We both get both sides of the maps we have agreed upon.
*The only difference is the kits.
  Now lets go to war.

BTW I was actually the one capping the flags in the Helli..lol . No HALO tactic for me. I will say this the snipers you guys have selected are excellent marksmen.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-07-13 05:42:38
Barrakuda777
Member
+86|6739|Somewhere near a shrub or rock

Kmarion wrote:

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Are commanders allowed? I cant remember and Mr.Numbers was dropping it on snipers like there was no tomorrow. Aside from the fact that there is no real skill involved in this and it does not really test the snipers or the medics in any way, medics have the revive ability which if arty is allowed is instantly a distinct advantage as they can recover these tickets... snipers cant.

Boo hoo i know.... i jumped on comm for snipers to retalliate, but that is boring and not why i found this idea / challenge intresting!

Why have transports at all? The medic team seemed intent on wresting every advantage from the rules as possible, on karkand the always travelled from flag to flag in transports.... that surely takes away the point of sniping as... there in a vehicle!??!?! Clever by the medics to use them to close on snipers and then spew out ak toting squads but not really in the spirit to be fair!
Hell, this would be better if the gun  on the transports fired..... as they may try to shoot you and you finally get a target in the turrets! Excuse me if i dont carry the m95, before anyone suggests it

Snipers also were caught out as they did not use transports... my best advice would be that they ALL get a vehicle and just run over the medics as this is pretty much where it was going... WHATS THE POINT OF THIS FRIENDLY CHALLENGE AGAIN?
The way it was going it was, here are the rules... who can weasle the biggest advantage out of them first...

This brings me on to the HALO choper tacktics used on wake (shortly before i left), all the USMC jumped in a helo who took off to the stratosphere and spewed troops directly onto any flag they wanted with impunity... whats the point? It was a nice trick but it kind of defeats the object of the challenge. Hats off to them for the communication and the teamwork was brilliant!

I guess it comes down to this.... the only vehicle that should be allowed on either map is boats... otherwise its not a test of medics vs snipers but rather one of best use of vehicle tactics IMHO.


Kooda
It appears to me that you are tying to change this into something that is not  even close to bf2. I would refer you to the original post to try and understand why this was setup in the first place. The goal here is to see who has the best team player kit in BF2. Yes I think snipers would do better in bf2 if there were no commanders but I have bad news for you, they do. I have in-fact read the rules of the match and you better believe we will play to win while following the rules. Tactics wins matches, skills are for personal glory.

I here all this talk about make it fair, make it even.
*We all have the same thing to use including arty,uav,scans,and vehicles.
*We both get both sides of the maps we have agreed upon.
*The only difference is the kits.
  Now lets go to war.

BTW I was actually the one capping the flags in the Helli..lol . No HALO tactic for me. I will say this the snipers you guys have selected are excellent marksmen.
Fair enough i suppose. All i can say is the sniper team needs to get its s**t together and come up with some tactics and counters....

On my original point though.... surely having no vehicles bar transports (with no guns) is not strictly BF2 either....

Kooda
2006-07-13 06:11:06
duffry
Moderator Emeritus
+148|6842|Cheshire, UK

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Are commanders allowed? I cant remember
Yes, very much so.

This (unlike the sniper event) is a team event, the commander is the consummate team player. You may say that commander toys are to the medics advantage but I would disagree. Teamwork is the snipers best weapon and removing the commander from a game of this size reduces the effectiveness of this weapon.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

that is boring and not why i found this idea / challenge intresting!
So someone else should command. The commander shouldn't be active in combat, they should be improving the combat effectiveness of all the snipers in their team through communication of the situation and tactical guidance. They are the ones who can see the gaps in the enemy's defence and direct people to exploit them. This is why I made sure both teams also had a TS channel.

Ignore your comms and commander at your peril.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Why have transports at all?
Cos I sure don't want to see people pinned down in one position for the lack of even the most basic transport. The guns are disabled so that kills are made by using the respective kits

Barrakuda777 wrote:

The medic team seemed intent on wresting every advantage from the rules as possible
That is called tactical play. Make the most of the situation. Everyone does it, just some do it better.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

, on karkand the always travelled from flag to flag in transports.... that surely takes away the point of sniping as... there in a vehicle!??!?!
They're in vehicles, which doesn't take away the point of sniping, just makes it a bit harder.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Clever by the medics to use them to close on snipers and then spew out ak toting squads but not really in the spirit to be fair!
Yes, it's fair. Don't pull out the 'it's unfair card' because the other side make better use of resources.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Hell, this would be better if the gun  on the transports fired..... as they may try to shoot you and you finally get a target in the turrets!
60 men in game and only a limited number of transports. You better believe you will have targets; be thankful they won't have 50 cal support fire.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Snipers also were caught out as they did not use transports...
That's a problem with the way the snipers played not the rules.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

my best advice would be that they ALL get a vehicle and just run over the medics
I have stated before that road-kills are not permitted but I did forget to put it on the rules section. I have now added it. NO RUNNING PEOPLE OVER.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

WHATS THE POINT OF THIS FRIENDLY CHALLENGE AGAIN?
To have fun.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

The way it was going it was, here are the rules... who can weasle the biggest advantage out of them first...
Err...  that's life, war, whatever.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

This brings me on to the HALO choper tacktics used on wake (shortly before i left), all the USMC jumped in a helo who took off to the stratosphere and spewed troops directly onto any flag they wanted with impunity... whats the point? It was a nice trick but it kind of defeats the object of the challenge. Hats off to them for the communication and the teamwork was brilliant!
That is exactly the point of the challenge. If you can't defend your flags from all possible assaults then you are not doing your job properly. Don't forget that both teams have helos - only one has claymores.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

I guess it comes down to this.... the only vehicle that should be allowed on either map is boats... otherwise its not a test of medics vs snipers but rather one of best use of vehicle tactics IMHO.
Omit the work 'vehicle' and you have it. The better tactics/team-play/communication/organisation/discipline will win. Make use of the things around you.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Fair enough i suppose. All i can say is the sniper team needs to get its s**t together and come up with some tactics and counters....
Deffo.

Barrakuda777 wrote:

On my original point though.... surely having no vehicles bar transports (with no guns) is not strictly BF2 either....
No, and nor is only having one kit per side, but there is a balancing act to be performed in producing the rules. I set a line (right or wrong) and all have to work with that. As I have said many times now. The rules will be reviewed before the next one but if I think the rules are fine but one team sucked at team-play I will not be inclined to change the rules to make it easier on them next time.
2006-07-13 06:39:29
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6604|132 and Bush

duffry wrote:

I have stated before that road-kills are not permitted but I did forget to put it on the rules section. I have now added it. NO RUNNING PEOPLE OVER.
SHHH! I wasn't going to remind them..lol
I was ran over 3 times on purpose. I was just going to look forward to all the pretty cards .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-07-13 07:33:43
Barrakuda777
Member
+86|6739|Somewhere near a shrub or rock
Hell, im not even playing... i just though i would share my observations / comments / complaints in this thread (as per the title). I am not having a go at anybody and i can appreciate the amount of work you guys have put into this and im sorry if you feel like im trying to rain on your parrade. I did try to read all the rules but what with all the threads it can be somewhat challenging.

Didn't really appreciate the critique of my punctuation and grammer but seeing as this is seemingly the BF2s English Teachers Associaton Forum i should have spent some time reading ov... Oh, no actually I dont care...

Best of luck to everyone, im done

Kooda
2006-07-13 07:48:14
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6604|132 and Bush

^^^^^^^^^
It's all in good fun mate.
Don't worry about the grammar thing. Sometimes my spelling is bad spell checker is just like WTF.. 
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-07-13 10:21:56
VeNg3nCe^
¦Tactics Øver Principles¦
+314|6708|Antarctica
This is pretty silly...... the medics have to drive around in vehicles in order to not be sniped, and snipers must eventually run out and fight up close with claymores and nades.  I think I was killed 4 times by a sniper rifle the entire time, the rest was all from clays and nades.  Plus the maps were a bad choice, on defending snipers have a huge advantage while medics aren't handicapped on either side.  The maps really need to be Conquest: double assault mode instead of defence/attack.
2006-07-13 11:12:13
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|6755|Toronto, ON
By the way, the way that you are probably reporting road kills is by looking at the kill screen.  Here is the scenario:

1) I put claymore down at flag.
2) I get in Vodnik.
3) Medic steps near claymore and dies.
4) Nyte [Vodnik] Medic, even though it is clearly the claymore that killed the medic.

Therefore, do NOT go by the kill screen to judge who gets a roadkill, most likely we will be in transports when the claymores go off.
Alpha as fuck.
2006-07-13 11:19:30
duffry
Moderator Emeritus
+148|6842|Cheshire, UK
Yeah, we know that vehicles can be reported for a kill without actually being the cause. No worries.

Could we move any general match discussion to this thread please?
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=34719
2006-07-13 12:27:39
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6662|BC, Canada
two questions that came up in practice, are you allowed to sit in a transport or heli while capping a flag. and with the yellow cards for running people over, what if there are 6 or more running down the middle of the road? im not gonna take a different route or swerve to miss them if i need to get to a flag behind them.
2006-07-13 16:01:06
duffry
Moderator Emeritus
+148|6842|Cheshire, UK

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

are you allowed to sit in a transport or heli while capping a flag.
Yes

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

and with the yellow cards for running people over, what if there are 6 or more running down the middle of the road? im not gonna take a different route or swerve to miss them if i need to get to a flag behind them.
Then you risk being removed from the server as running people over is against the rules, no exception.

 

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