and I'm sick of crazy Jews, send them all to campsdelta4bravo*nl* wrote:
Im sick of crazy muslims, nuke em all.
Read A. Shlaim, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World. London: Allen Lane, 2000.
Shlaim is a Professor of International Relations at St. Antony's, Oxford and his work is probably the most well balanced I have read on the subject.
For a view attacking Shlaim (and Benny Morris amongst others) read E. Karsh, Fabricating Israeli History: The 'New Historians'. London: Frank Cass, 1997. I happened to meet Professor Karsh during my time at King's College, London ... a very 'interesting man'.
Both these books take widely differing views on the motivations behind Israeli foreign policy and provide very useful paradigms with which to view current Israeli policy.
Edit: I studied Arab-Israeli relations very briefly during my undergraduate course - The October War of 1973 is my speciality
Shlaim is a Professor of International Relations at St. Antony's, Oxford and his work is probably the most well balanced I have read on the subject.
For a view attacking Shlaim (and Benny Morris amongst others) read E. Karsh, Fabricating Israeli History: The 'New Historians'. London: Frank Cass, 1997. I happened to meet Professor Karsh during my time at King's College, London ... a very 'interesting man'.
Both these books take widely differing views on the motivations behind Israeli foreign policy and provide very useful paradigms with which to view current Israeli policy.
Edit: I studied Arab-Israeli relations very briefly during my undergraduate course - The October War of 1973 is my speciality
Last edited by Viper38 (2006-07-13 07:11:46)
Suicide bombing is a particularly scary phenomenon I agree. Not all suicide bombings are driven by religion however (although the majority probably are). This thread is about disproportionate force, inappropriate retaliation and collective punishment though and not about the nature of the suicide bomber.
What israel did was very bad and wrong... what they should have done was to cooperate w/ local lebanese police/ military and track down the terrosists and put a bullet in their head.
cameronpoe has a good point
cameronpoe has a good point
AgreedCameronPoe wrote:
Suicide bombing is a particularly scary phenomenon I agree. Not all suicide bombings are driven by religion however (although the majority probably are). This thread is about disproportionate force, inappropriate retaliation and collective punishment though and not about the nature of the suicide bomber.
I did miss that part. I've always found the conflicts in this area hard to grasp so I'll just stay out from the discussion from now on.Ikarti wrote:
They assassinated the former prime minister, Hariri. Did you miss the part where Syria occupied Lebanon? They're not the greatest of friends.voltage wrote:
Last time I checked Lebanon was a independent (at least formally) country in process of cutting their ties with Syria (due to the murder of some Lebanese politician) and developing their democracy. Lets hope they don't jump rightup in Syrias lap again because of this.
Seems to me Israel is trying to get to Hezbollah by attacking a third party (Lebanon) and scare them to take actions against Hezbollah. That's pretty much the definition of the t-word.
Most Jews are inclined to lean left politically in the US (highly odd, I know).CameronPoe wrote:
The fact that for some mysterious reason Israel is immune to all UN action because of the US veto really annoys people too. It seems the jews in USA are 'punching above their demographic weight' with respect to US politics.
Also, if you are saying Israel is above UN action, let us have at it with North Korea and Iran, instead of China and Russia deciding to use their veto power. Like I said, it might be an even trade.
The UN is mostly imptent at this point, as nothing ever gets done to anybody.
I'm sick of CameronPoe, Nuke em.CameronPoe wrote:
My post isn't a pro-islam post - it's an anti-israel post.delta4bravo*nl* wrote:
Im sick of crazy muslims, nuke em all.
Israel was attacked, Lebenon supplies the terrorists and gives them safe haven. Israel should protect itself and destroy the countries that it is attacked from/thru.
Israel puts up with too much shit, any other country would have wiped syria, palestine, and Lebenon out by now. Including Ireland. Who negotiates with terrorists that have said publicly they won't rest till your country is destroyed???? Who allows there fellow citizens to be killed and threatened contantly by people who specificly target women and children.
Wake up Israel, time to round up the palestians and send them to syria and use the country as an empty buffer zone to protect yourself. Make Palestine one big minefield.
not all? what religion(thing in general) rewards to suicide killing people?CameronPoe wrote:
Not all suicide bombings are driven by religion .
THE NATURE OF A SUICIDE BOMBER???!?!?!?!?!CameronPoe wrote:
nature of the suicide bomber.
if somebody tells u to suicide and god will reward u in the next life, you will do it or u send him to hell?
u will never see a son of a rich/king/religious leader commiting suicide, why because the have enough money to "get saved", the people who always suicide is poor, dont have studies,dont have work.I think if u promise to somebody poor of Africa to send his family to europe if he suicides he will do the same.
how many families destroyed the IRA cameronpoe?u think the goals wanted to reach were enought good to kill these families?who many IRA members suicided for the good of the IRA?
Last edited by aqempty (2006-07-13 08:08:05)
There are multiple members of the Lebanese Parliament that from the Hezbollah party, do you really think the two are all that separated? Plus Syria has a LOT of influence on Beirut.CameronPoe wrote:
Lebanon is NOT FUNDING Hezbollah - Syria and Iran are. This renders the analogy redundant (not to mention the fact that Hezbollah acts externally to Israel not from within).
Also, The kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers was done INSIDE of Israel. The rockets that are fired by various Hezbollah and Hammas affiliated groups land INSIDE of Israel, and the suicide bombers blow themselves up INSIDE of Israel. To say that these groups are only acting outside of Israel is erroneous.
Hezbollah is NOT a Lebanese-State-Sponsored organisation. The fact that a couple of members of their parliament are from the political wing of Hezbollah does not mean Lebanon should suffer collective punishment. The Lebanese have actually been trying to rid Syrian influence from their countrey of late - and now Israel go and punish them. Nice move. NOT.Shopvac wrote:
There are multiple members of the Lebanese Parliament that from the Hezbollah party, do you really think the two are all that separated? Plus Syria has a LOT of influence on Beirut.CameronPoe wrote:
Lebanon is NOT FUNDING Hezbollah - Syria and Iran are. This renders the analogy redundant (not to mention the fact that Hezbollah acts externally to Israel not from within).
Also, The kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers was done INSIDE of Israel. The rockets that are fired by various Hezbollah and Hammas affiliated groups land INSIDE of Israel, and the suicide bombers blow themselves up INSIDE of Israel. To say that these groups are only acting outside of Israel is erroneous.
PS I said the organisation was EXTERNAL TO ISRAEL - I didn't say they didn't attack inside Israel. I was trying to differentiate them from Hamas, which is internal to 'Israel'.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-13 08:54:55)
A sum total of ZERO IRA men committed suicide bombings to free the north. Whatsmore you are digressing - this is about Israel.aqempty wrote:
THE NATURE OF A SUICIDE BOMBER???!?!?!?!?!CameronPoe wrote:
nature of the suicide bomber.
if somebody tells u to suicide and god will reward u in the next life, you will do it or u send him to hell?
u will never see a son of a rich/king/religious leader commiting suicide, why because the have enough money to "get saved", the people who always suicide is poor, dont have studies,dont have work.I think if u promise to somebody poor of Africa to send his family to europe if he suicides he will do the same.
how many families destroyed the IRA cameronpoe?u think the goals wanted to reach were enought good to kill these families?who many IRA members suicided for the good of the IRA?
There is one example of a non-religiously motivated suicide bombing I recall from a few years ago. The IDF killed a well off Palestinian teachers (maybe lawyer I can't remember exactly - I'll try look it up) daughter in a crossfire and that evening this man of relative wealth dressed himself up as an hasidic jew, got on a bus and blew himself up. Why? Because he knew he would have no recourse to justice - the solution - avenge her death himself. Suicide bombing is not a preserve of the impoverished although the desparation that poverty and inhumanity brings is a factor.
Israeli lobby groups throw their money and influence at whoever is in power. With people like Richard Perle in the Republican party defense policy background I hardly think the Republicans are free from Israeli influence (and he is just one man among many).Erkut.hv wrote:
Most Jews are inclined to lean left politically in the US (highly odd, I know).CameronPoe wrote:
The fact that for some mysterious reason Israel is immune to all UN action because of the US veto really annoys people too. It seems the jews in USA are 'punching above their demographic weight' with respect to US politics.
Also, if you are saying Israel is above UN action, let us have at it with North Korea and Iran, instead of China and Russia deciding to use their veto power. Like I said, it might be an even trade.
The UN is mostly imptent at this point, as nothing ever gets done to anybody.
Israelis are Jewish. You're an ignorant cock.delta4bravo*nl* wrote:
Im sick of crazy muslims, nuke em all.
I see your ban got lifted. Congratulations. Another extremely mature post from Major_Troll I see. I'd hate to live in a world you controlled - it would be a charred mess.Major_Spittle wrote:
I'm sick of CameronPoe, Nuke em.CameronPoe wrote:
My post isn't a pro-islam post - it's an anti-israel post.delta4bravo*nl* wrote:
Im sick of crazy muslims, nuke em all.
Israel was attacked, Lebenon supplies the terrorists and gives them safe haven. Israel should protect itself and destroy the countries that it is attacked from/thru.
Israel puts up with too much shit, any other country would have wiped syria, palestine, and Lebenon out by now. Including Ireland. Who negotiates with terrorists that have said publicly they won't rest till your country is destroyed???? Who allows there fellow citizens to be killed and threatened contantly by people who specificly target women and children.
Wake up Israel, time to round up the palestians and send them to syria and use the country as an empty buffer zone to protect yourself. Make Palestine one big minefield.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-14 00:38:06)
Sorry Poe, as a fellow republican I have to say that Israel was right. They have done what no other country has done and they have finally hit back. Israel is a small country the size of say Maine in the us and they are surrounded by countries that are calling for its blood daily. They have had bombings daily and shells firend oin them and people bbutchered. Their soldiers are attacked, killed and one is kidnapped and they say enough is enough and get tough but not tough enough. Then 2 more are kidnapped and they step it up against a terrorist group that has daily made strikes from its base in LEBANON and you give them shit for it. Come on pal! I think its about time Israel kicked some terrorist arse. They should have done it years ago . NExt they should do what they did to Sadaam and blast the shite outta the nuclear reactors in Iran. Iran said they want them blown off the map so they have every right in the world to strike them.
Slan
Slan
Nobody is innocent here.
Syria and Iran, directly support Hizbullah as well.
Syria and Iran, directly support Hizbullah as well.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Why dont we blow up the whole middle east and turn it into a giant solar panel to supply american and chinese energy? It sounds like a great idea to me.
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-07-13 09:20:24)
Why don't some people wake up and take a look at Israel and learn something??? You cannot reason with these crazy religious freaks trying to blow us up and kidnap and torture innocent people! I'm not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish, I'm just looking at this with a persepective of logic.......What do you do with terrorists who tell you straight to your face that you and your way of life need to be wiped off the face of the earth???? WHAT?
You CANNOT REASON WITH THEM and Israel isn't even trying.......They defend themselves and don't take any crap. What does this tell their enemies? What does it tell you? Strike Isreal they will strike you back ten times harder. This is called a deterrent.
The problem with America is our whole Government! I love this country and every single day I think about how lucky I am to have been born here. Our government was set up so different parties with different ideas could speak their opinions and the people of America would benefit from the best ideas from both parties. But the problem is that no party supports the other, even though it may end up costing American lives!
What good is it to the American people when half of our government tries to undermine the other for their own personal gain? This goes for both parties. When one has a good Idea, the other automatically decides it would destroy America and does EVERYTHING within there power to PREVENT the positive outcome of that idea, just so they can be percieved as the better party?
We HAVE to support our troops.....We HAVE to support Israel.......If we don't this world will become more unstable! This is fact. Disagree with it all you like, but please just think what would happen if we leave Iraq right now, and if Israel gave into the demands of terrorists.......
You CANNOT REASON WITH THEM and Israel isn't even trying.......They defend themselves and don't take any crap. What does this tell their enemies? What does it tell you? Strike Isreal they will strike you back ten times harder. This is called a deterrent.
The problem with America is our whole Government! I love this country and every single day I think about how lucky I am to have been born here. Our government was set up so different parties with different ideas could speak their opinions and the people of America would benefit from the best ideas from both parties. But the problem is that no party supports the other, even though it may end up costing American lives!
What good is it to the American people when half of our government tries to undermine the other for their own personal gain? This goes for both parties. When one has a good Idea, the other automatically decides it would destroy America and does EVERYTHING within there power to PREVENT the positive outcome of that idea, just so they can be percieved as the better party?
We HAVE to support our troops.....We HAVE to support Israel.......If we don't this world will become more unstable! This is fact. Disagree with it all you like, but please just think what would happen if we leave Iraq right now, and if Israel gave into the demands of terrorists.......
There is already a topic on this...merged.
I think you fail to see that Israel is one of the primary sources of instability on the surface of this small rock orbiting the sun. I can't think of a similarly unstable region of earth that has such a wide impact (aside from Iraq maybe). I will not be supporting Israel as I'm sure you have gathered. Many Europeans abhorr the actions of the government of Israel too. You don't 'have to' support Israel - that is ludicrous.TheDrNailsGuy wrote:
Why don't some people wake up and take a look at Israel and learn something??? You cannot reason with these crazy religious freaks trying to blow us up and kidnap and torture innocent people! I'm not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish, I'm just looking at this with a persepective of logic.......What do you do with terrorists who tell you straight to your face that you and your way of life need to be wiped off the face of the earth???? WHAT?
You CANNOT REASON WITH THEM and Israel isn't even trying.......They defend themselves and don't take any crap. What does this tell their enemies? What does it tell you? Strike Isreal they will strike you back ten times harder. This is called a deterrent.
The problem with America is our whole Government! I love this country and every single day I think about how lucky I am to have been born here. Our government was set up so different parties with different ideas could speak their opinions and the people of America would benefit from the best ideas from both parties. But the problem is that no party supports the other, even though it may end up costing American lives!
What good is it to the American people when half of our government tries to undermine the other for their own personal gain? This goes for both parties. When one has a good Idea, the other automatically decides it would destroy America and does EVERYTHING within there power to PREVENT the positive outcome of that idea, just so they can be percieved as the better party?
We HAVE to support our troops.....We HAVE to support Israel.......If we don't this world will become more unstable! This is fact. Disagree with it all you like, but please just think what would happen if we leave Iraq right now, and if Israel gave into the demands of terrorists.......
I don't get what your whole America diatribe has to do with anything.
CANNOT REASON WITH THEM? Well you often do find it hard to reason with someone if you're not even talking to them. LOL! Hamas implictly recognised the existence of the state of Israel and what do Israel do? Wreck the Hamas ceasefire by shelling a Palestinian family on a beach. Of ocurse you can come up with a 'well they did this' retort but that's what this is a vicious cycle of violence. Somebody needs to stop it - the only ones with the power to do so are Israel.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-13 09:34:57)
What I find funny about this is that if/when we go to war with China, your course of action will be the same.JaMDuDe wrote:
Why dont we blow up the whole middle east and turn it into a giant solar panel to supply american and chinese energy? It sounds like a great idea to me.
War has cause.......! I just don't know WTF it is though
I agree with retaliation rather than instigation. Who's retaliating? I'll agree wtih them.