lol, niceCameronPoe wrote:
5) In 2000 years will people be worshipping characters from 'The Lord of the Rings' trilogy of books?
Poll
Are you a Christian?
| I would like to be | 50% | 50% - 157 | 50% | 50% - 157 | ||
| I don't want anything to do with that! | 55% | 55% - 174 | 44% | 44% - 140 | ||
| Total: 314 | ||||||
The prophecies are evidence that he was sent by God. They describe the messiah in great detail. But i know u dont believe them and will will always be able to doubt and ask another question.DoctorFruitloop wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but JaMDuDe made the mistake of telling us he had lots of evidence and sources to prove this, that and the other.G3|Genius wrote:
The beauty of Christianity is that you have to believe in what you can't prove. It's part of the humility of knowing that God is greater than you.
Each to their own. I'm not trying to say you're wrong, it's just not for me.
But if I say I have proof that my car has four wheels, I'll be haapy to back it up with that proof. If I'd never seen a car before, and wasn't even sure if cars existed, I'd be pretty dumb to make a statement that I've got proof they have four wheels, and I'd look a total idiot if my evidence for the existance of cars was a bike.
Nuff said.
Yes i have asked myself those questions cameron.(maybe not the lotr one)
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-07-12 10:34:55)
It's a little academic but is worth the read any way. It's by someone who grew up Evangelical and is now a professor of divinity, or theology (I can't remember which) at an Ivy League in the Eastern, US. Here's a link to the book: Misquoting Jesus.G3|Genius wrote:
Please cite your source when you say something so volatile.Konfusion0 wrote:
not a magician, lots of the bible was mistranslated (it was translated pretty soon too, so thats why its been wrong for quite some time...) A guy wanted to back up his regime with the bible, and therefore changed bits of it... The original has long since been lost...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006073 … p;n=283155
Why don't you believe in Zeus or Mars? Are they not equally valid 'gods'?JaMDuDe wrote:
The prophecies are evidence that he was sent by God. They describe the messiah in great detail. But i know u dont believe them and will will always be able to doubt and ask another question.DoctorFruitloop wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but JaMDuDe made the mistake of telling us he had lots of evidence and sources to prove this, that and the other.G3|Genius wrote:
The beauty of Christianity is that you have to believe in what you can't prove. It's part of the humility of knowing that God is greater than you.
Each to their own. I'm not trying to say you're wrong, it's just not for me.
But if I say I have proof that my car has four wheels, I'll be haapy to back it up with that proof. If I'd never seen a car before, and wasn't even sure if cars existed, I'd be pretty dumb to make a statement that I've got proof they have four wheels, and I'd look a total idiot if my evidence for the existance of cars was a bike.
Nuff said.
Yes i have asked myself those questions cameron.(maybe not the lotr one)
No they are not.
They most certainly would be equally valid if not more popular than the christian god had Constantine not declared it equal to all religions back in Rome.
Exactamundo - Jamdude would quite probably be heading to the local temple to sacrifice a lamb at the foot of a great statue of some Roman god if it weren't for a Roman Emperor deciding it would be easier to control the masses if he regulated their belief systems.Marconius wrote:
They most certainly would be equally valid if not more popular than the christian god had Constantine not declared it equal to all religions back in Rome.
What sources??? The bible? A work of fiction in itself?Several sources show that he performed miracles...
Yeah...like you do!! So in recent times, when has someone risen from the dead after being crucified? Why all these incredible miracles all this time ago and yet in this modern day and age, we can't even cure the common cold?... fulfilled prophecies and rose from the dead after he was crucified
Its bullshit mate, give us some REAL evidence that could sway me. Why did my Grandad die painfully of Cancer? Answer that one...so you believe he's now in heaven? Nonsense, he's dead - whoever made up the concept of heaven and hell was blatantly trying to comfort someone without the mental capacity to understand death and the concept of live failing with old age through science and evolution.
There is NO SUCH PLACE as heaven, if there is, prove it (can't wait for some evidence to backup that!), got any photos? good/bad reviews? The theory is for weak minded people...nothing more...
The sources are from historians, eye witnesses and people who followed christ and wrote biographies to record history as accurately as they could.
Just because Jesus did miracles and rose from the dead doesnt mean other people in recent times should be able to do the same thing.
Everyone has to die here on earth, including your grandad. If your going to wait to believe in God until you see photos then i feel bad for you.
Just because Jesus did miracles and rose from the dead doesnt mean other people in recent times should be able to do the same thing.
Everyone has to die here on earth, including your grandad. If your going to wait to believe in God until you see photos then i feel bad for you.
Eye Witnesses?? you spoken to them...oh hang on they must be a little too old for talking - I suppose you read someones account of an eye witnesses statement? Little bit like chinese whispers, one minute he's sailing the ocean, the next he's splitting it in half...!?The sources are from historians, eye witnesses and people who followed christ and wrote biographies to record history as accurately as they could.
Silly me, guess I've been watching too much of the X-Men.Just because Jesus did miracles and rose from the dead doesnt mean other people in recent times should be able to do the same thing.
LOL, show me the photos!! Reread your statement, you're basically saying that photo's of this geezer won't ever be available...perhaps because he's a figment of some acid user's imagination.Everyone has to die here on earth, including your grandad. If your going to wait to believe in God until you see photos then i feel bad for you.
People die, thats it, there's no white leather-clad heaven, when you go you go, get real and explain this heaven theory, where'd that mad idea come from, and if once you're dead you're dead, how could ANYONE ever 'report back' and tell you how nice the place supposedly is?
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
~ Voltaire.
~ Voltaire.
I think Jamdude needs to read up a little on the origins of the bible itself, how it came together, etc. He needs to also read the accounts of other historians from that era - for example, Josephus, who incidentally didn't report the fact that Jesus' pa was an omnipotent deity.JaMDuDe wrote:
The sources are from historians, eye witnesses and people who followed christ and wrote biographies to record history as accurately as they could.
Just because Jesus did miracles and rose from the dead doesnt mean other people in recent times should be able to do the same thing.
Everyone has to die here on earth, including your grandad. If your going to wait to believe in God until you see photos then i feel bad for you.
honestly to all involved here, I would just say give it a rest. You can post all you want and try to convince one another that your beliefs are right, but in the end, no one is going to change. It would be nice, but it isn't realistically going to happen. We have seen this thread go on for a good 10 pages of banter, and another 50 pages in another thread, but it really is getting monotonous. All the atheists saying open your eyes, all the theists saying no, what we believe is fact. ENOUGH!
Ashley, your right. If your waiting for God to put some photographs of him and heaven on your doorstep you most likely will not get them. Obviously you have no clue about how the bible was WRITTEN. It was not passed down by the generations through whispering. And the "theory of heaven" came from the bible.
Cameron i didnt say that every single source said that Jesus' was God.
Cameron i didnt say that every single source said that Jesus' was God.
My pathetic agnostic beliefs? Well, excuse me for being open-minded. Instead of insulting my intelligence why don't you try arguing with my logic: If the Christians are right, and God exists, then he is omnipotent and omniscient, two concepts that go against every scientific principle that we know of today. How are we supposed to prove or disprove the existence of an entity so powerful that if he cared to could simply trick us into believing one way or the other? It's kind of like saying "the Earth was created last thursday, and all evidence of it existing for longer than that was fabricated by God along with our memories". You can't disprove it, it's just very, very unlikely.ashleyhall wrote:
Thats just a way of avoiding having to explain any scientific or realistic reasoning behind your pathetic beliefs. Why do the religious always avoid direct answers to the simplest questions? or instead providing swollen illrelevant paragraphs of nonsense that still tend to avoid a direct answer?Skruples wrote:
God is, by necessity, beyond any method of measurement or proof
You don't seem to grasp the concept of an unbiased source. Notice that a few pages ago, when I was making my point for homosexuality, that I used the American psychological association as a source. I did not go to a homosexual advocacy site or a christian site, because their beliefs taint their opinions in such a way that their research cannot be taken at face value. The APA, on the other hand, has no interests either way; their goal as an organization has no conflicts with their research. Do you see where I'm going with this?JaMDuDe wrote:
Doesnt it sound a little illogical for you to want beings as dumb as humans to be able to "measure" God? Jesus himself is evidence for God, he was/is God. The JESUS INSTITUTE can answer more of your questions if youd like.
When someone asks for evidence to support a position, and you provide them with links to organizations with a vested interest in proving one side or the other, you are not accomplishing anything. If you really want to prove your point, find an non-religious educational or research organization to back yourself up. For example, you keep making references to the dead sea scrolls and prophecies of jesus' birth being written, but have yet to provide any evidence to that effect... (no, the bible itself is not evidence, unless you can provide unbiased evidence that what you said is true)
However, I suspect that you have not actually done any solid research on this issue, and you're merely regurgitating what you've read on the websites you have linked us. Time and again you repeat the same talking points: "written on 3 continents over 1500 years", "eyewitnesses and feet washing", "prophecies", and not once have you elaborated on any of these points beyond a very superficial level. Do you fully understand these concepts? I think not. Prove me wrong.
actually, it was at first... They had quite some time pass before they were actually able to record the "facts"... Oh yeah, and you don't know if the printed version of the bible was the same as the handwritten, and if the handwritten ones were even correcty copied... So please accept the fact that your information is not very accurate. Research this, and face us with some competition. It's sad to see you being so overrun by everyone else...JaMDuDe wrote:
Ashley, your right. If your waiting for God to put some photographs of him and heaven on your doorstep you most likely will not get them. Obviously you have no clue about how the bible was WRITTEN. It was not passed down by the generations through whispering. And the "theory of heaven" came from the bible.
Cameron i didnt say that every single source said that Jesus' was God.
The same people who saw Jesus do the things he did wrote the books. It wasnt passed down by mouth and eventually someone wrote it. And the people who saw Jesus do the things he did were very good at memorizing things. We do have very early manuscripts(less than 100 years after Jesus) that werent translated.
Plus, much of the New Testament (well, most of it), is metaphorical.Konfusion0 wrote:
not a magician, lots of the bible was mistranslated (it was translated pretty soon too, so thats why its been wrong for quite some time...) A guy wanted to back up his regime with the bible, and therefore changed bits of it... The original has long since been lost...JaMDuDe wrote:
It all comes down to your choice. If you want to believe he was just an incredibly nice guy and and one of the greatest magicians of all time you can. Theres a lot of evidence he was sent by God, but if you dont want to see it you wont.Konfusion0 wrote:
actually, there is no evidence that Jesus was sent by god... There is evidence that he lived, but that is the only evidence in that direction that we have... Then again, for me to believe that something exists, there has to be evidence for it, not against it...
Evolution is science and its backed up by a lot of evidence. But spontaneous generation was too and it was just as accepted by scientists.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
what annoys me about you, JaMDuDe, is not that you're trying to justify your religion. It is that you have no substantial proof whatsoever of what you are saying is true...
Your not providing any evidence that the things you are saying is true either. I dont have time right now to go searching the internet for completely non-bias websites that have evidence that most of you will say is false.
if you wish, I will find the source I originally got this information from...
edit: I just figured: I don't have to, everyone else backs my information up...
edit: I just figured: I don't have to, everyone else backs my information up...
Last edited by Konfusion0 (2006-07-13 00:54:32)
We'll all know who is right and who is wrong when we die.
There are a lot of religious leaders to follow: God, Allah, the Buddha, etc. I however, choose to believe in the One who He raised HIMSELF from the dead, and then paraded around in front of 500 or so people.
Also, if you think about the death and resurrection of Christ, for anything less than the raising of Christ to happen would be ridiculous. The tomb was guarded by Roman Soldiers to protect it from the very thing that happened. Now, I'm pretty sure that everyone is in agreement that Roman soldiers weren't pussies, and the disciples weren't soldiers, they were just regular guys. Now, the punishment for failing such a mission in the Roman army was execution.
So if I'm a Roman soldier guarding this tomb of this guy Jesus who the Jews really want dead and letting the body get away means certain death, I'M NOT GONNA LET THE BODY GET AWAY FOR ANYTHING. Yet it did. Christ was in there for three days on the fourth morning He was gone, and all those soldiers got executed. Sucks for them.
Now, I don't know if you realize this but ALL the disciples of Jesus got kill in ridiculously painful ways. John was crucified upside down which is like normal crucifixion x 10 on the pain meter. If John had faked the resurrection of Jesus do you think he would have died in such a way? All he had to do was deny that Christ rose and he woulda got off Scot free. But he died. In one of the most horrible ways ever used by mankind to execute people, possibly the worst. I know I wouldn't die IN ANY WAY for something that I know is a HOAX.
From the human perspective, you almost have to believe that Jesus is the real deal or else you are an idiot with no common sense whatsoever.
Oh yeah and Christians FTW!
There are a lot of religious leaders to follow: God, Allah, the Buddha, etc. I however, choose to believe in the One who He raised HIMSELF from the dead, and then paraded around in front of 500 or so people.
Also, if you think about the death and resurrection of Christ, for anything less than the raising of Christ to happen would be ridiculous. The tomb was guarded by Roman Soldiers to protect it from the very thing that happened. Now, I'm pretty sure that everyone is in agreement that Roman soldiers weren't pussies, and the disciples weren't soldiers, they were just regular guys. Now, the punishment for failing such a mission in the Roman army was execution.
So if I'm a Roman soldier guarding this tomb of this guy Jesus who the Jews really want dead and letting the body get away means certain death, I'M NOT GONNA LET THE BODY GET AWAY FOR ANYTHING. Yet it did. Christ was in there for three days on the fourth morning He was gone, and all those soldiers got executed. Sucks for them.
Now, I don't know if you realize this but ALL the disciples of Jesus got kill in ridiculously painful ways. John was crucified upside down which is like normal crucifixion x 10 on the pain meter. If John had faked the resurrection of Jesus do you think he would have died in such a way? All he had to do was deny that Christ rose and he woulda got off Scot free. But he died. In one of the most horrible ways ever used by mankind to execute people, possibly the worst. I know I wouldn't die IN ANY WAY for something that I know is a HOAX.
From the human perspective, you almost have to believe that Jesus is the real deal or else you are an idiot with no common sense whatsoever.
Oh yeah and Christians FTW!
Last edited by Capt_Flapjack (2006-07-12 20:40:14)
This is what really pisses me off about religion.Capt_Flapjack wrote:
We'll all know who is right and who is wrong when we die.
There are a lot of religious leaders to follow: God, Allah, the Buddha, etc. I however, choose to believe in the One who He raised HIMSELF from the dead, and then paraded around in front of 500 or so people.
Also, if you think about the death and resurrection of Christ, for anything less than the raising of Christ to happen would be ridiculous. The tomb was guarded by Roman Soldiers to protect it from the very thing that happened. Now, I'm pretty sure that everyone is in agreement that Roman soldiers weren't pussies, and the disciples weren't soldiers, they were just regular guys. Now, the punishment for failing such a mission in the Roman army was execution.
So if I'm a Roman soldier guarding this tomb of this guy Jesus who the Jews really want dead and letting the body get away means certain death, I'M NOT GONNA LET THE BODY GET AWAY FOR ANYTHING. Yet it did. Christ was in there for three days on the fourth morning He was gone, and all those soldiers got executed. Sucks for them.
Now, I don't know if you realize this but ALL the disciples of Jesus got kill in ridiculously painful ways. John was crucified upside down which is like normal crucifixion x 10 on the pain meter. If John had faked the resurrection of Jesus do you think he would have died in such a way? All he had to do was deny that Christ rose and he woulda got off Scot free. But he died. In one of the most horrible ways ever used by mankind to execute people, possibly the worst. I know I wouldn't die IN ANY WAY for something that I know is a HOAX.
From the human perspective, you almost have to believe that Jesus is the real deal or else you are an idiot with no common sense whatsoever.
Oh yeah and Christians FTW!
"I'm right and you're wrong so STFU".
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Clearly events as described in the bible are exactly as they happened in real life 2000 years ago. No one embellished or rewrote along the way, after all what possible motivation could anyone have to make those events seem more dramatic then they really were...Capt_Flapjack wrote:
We'll all know who is right and who is wrong when we die.
There are a lot of religious leaders to follow: God, Allah, the Buddha, etc. I however, choose to believe in the One who He raised HIMSELF from the dead, and then paraded around in front of 500 or so people.
Also, if you think about the death and resurrection of Christ, for anything less than the raising of Christ to happen would be ridiculous. The tomb was guarded by Roman Soldiers to protect it from the very thing that happened. Now, I'm pretty sure that everyone is in agreement that Roman soldiers weren't pussies, and the disciples weren't soldiers, they were just regular guys. Now, the punishment for failing such a mission in the Roman army was execution.
So if I'm a Roman soldier guarding this tomb of this guy Jesus who the Jews really want dead and letting the body get away means certain death, I'M NOT GONNA LET THE BODY GET AWAY FOR ANYTHING. Yet it did. Christ was in there for three days on the fourth morning He was gone, and all those soldiers got executed. Sucks for them.
Now, I don't know if you realize this but ALL the disciples of Jesus got kill in ridiculously painful ways. John was crucified upside down which is like normal crucifixion x 10 on the pain meter. If John had faked the resurrection of Jesus do you think he would have died in such a way? All he had to do was deny that Christ rose and he woulda got off Scot free. But he died. In one of the most horrible ways ever used by mankind to execute people, possibly the worst. I know I wouldn't die IN ANY WAY for something that I know is a HOAX.
From the human perspective, you almost have to believe that Jesus is the real deal or else you are an idiot with no common sense whatsoever.
Oh yeah and Christians FTW!
Hmmmm.
I'm not going to even bother with this one. You clearly have no in-depth knowledge about your own religion. Do some original research - start with 'Gospel' on wikipedia.JaMDuDe wrote:
The same people who saw Jesus do the things he did wrote the books. It wasnt passed down by mouth and eventually someone wrote it. And the people who saw Jesus do the things he did were very good at memorizing things. We do have very early manuscripts(less than 100 years after Jesus) that werent translated.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman