Omg dude...I have respect for you whytwokay as a player...but you need to read the entire threads...please please please. You are totally missing the point mate...I did post my concerns on moongamers forums, like here...got no real answers.... Whytwokay, your not the type of player who would spawn again, and again into enemy fire...knowing that your losing ground you would spawn further back...I have played along side of you....you understand the game. The issue again...play the game as it was designed...hate to see a pioneer server such as mg let the non tactical/team type video gamer rule the game.RyanVeltidi wrote:
Ah yes, another Moongamers Karkand thread. The fact is that Karkand has always been a spawncamper's dream for those who use APC/Tanks. The USMC can camp the Hotel like no other, and the MEC still spawn there to get killed. Rules are put there for a reason, and spawncamping rules are perfectly legal.
Karkand has always been a tricky server to run, and it attracks some of the lesser-quality players that Moon does not want playing on their server. By this, I mean the abusive, ignorant, and downright offensive people. The game is meant to be a fun place to play. Karkand can be fun at times, when there are no rule-breakers in there. The sad part of online gaming is that there will always be rule breakers to ruion people's fun.
There are 54 slots on the server, and people come and go every round, every hour, every day. The number of players that cycle in and out is astronomical when you really count it up. If somebody has a bad experience, that's when they post it here, which really is not the best place to be putting it anyway. There have been no more than 10 topics about Moongamers on here, and how many players cycle through in a day, nearly thousands. I don't have any specific numbers here, but I can tell you that is a very good estimate.
If people have a problem with Moongamers, their best place to discuss this would be the Moongamers Forums, or on the Moongamers TeamSpeak. Doesn't that seem like a good place? Problems with Moongamers - Go to Moongamers. The TeamSpeak IP is right there on the frontpage at Moongamers.com, no password needed. Feel free to stop by and talk to us.
For those who say that we are not obeying the ROE, I would like to point out that Moongamers (along with myself) have a very good relationship with the people at BF2RS, along with the people directly at EA. Our server host at WOLF also has a good relationship with EA, and together they make sure that every choice that is made at Moongamers is 100% compliant with the ROE, EULA, and any other offical rule-sets there happen to be. Rules are not made up on the whim of the admin, if an admin is caught doing so, they are stipped of the administrative abilities and further reviewed. Believe me on this one.
I've been with Moongamers for nearly 2 and a half years, since day 19 of it's conception. The people there are very fun to be around, and work very hard to run fun, clean, and FUN servers for all ages. Rules, as stated above, are set there for a reason. Karkand is a difficult server to run, as stated above, because of the types of players.
I can not say that this thread at BF2S has been the most constructive, but I believe that if the words and facts get out there enough, people will start to accept them. Servers are not perfect for all. Karkand is a strictly no equipment camping server, if you like to camp, then please play elsewhere. For those who like the rules the way they are, then please continue to play. Do not let the words of the few contradict the feeling of the masses. The few complainers are the few, not the majority feeling.
Chinesemaster, and your post about the rules: The only "additional" rule I see there, that is unlike most other server, would be the spawncamping rule. Many servers even have those rules too. Things like clan solicitation, racism, and teamkilling are usually not allowed on almost all servers. Same thing with whoring vehicles/commander position.
Remember, Moongamers has a total of 10 servers spanning 4 games, including a Mostly Oman server for BF2. I notice that there are literally no complaints for that server. Karkand itself is a different feal than what most other maps are like, because of the layout of the maps and the types of people it can attract.
I feel those are words enough for myself.
Disclaimer: I am not an admin at Moongamers.
Topic closed
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Simple fact of the matter is that this is impossible, canadarocks is currently set on moderation if I remember correctly, while as myself as you can see I am disinvited for no specific reason if you check my last posts... Either way, no Moongamers isn't the place to go why?If people have a problem with Moongamers, their best place to discuss this would be the Moongamers Forums, or on the Moongamers TeamSpeak. Doesn't that seem like a good place? Problems with Moongamers - Go to Moongamers. The TeamSpeak IP is right there on the frontpage at Moongamers.com, no password needed. Feel free to stop by and talk to us.
http://www.moongamers.com/forum/index.p … opic=14317
As you can see, it totally goes off topic...
Quoting parts of the thread "Noobie Style":
How is that any of your business?
Freedom of speech does not apply to private forums, like these.
I've had enough of your crap canada. If you don't like it, leave.
These are words that come straight out of Moongamers Forums, these are words from Sr.Admins and Core, best place to discuss you say. You tell me.We have more to do with our time than argue with you when you are never wrong.
Actually I meant what I said to the other players complaining that have not gone to the Moongamers forums to discuss this sort of thing. Those that have, have been given their answers and specifics.chinesemaster006 wrote:
Simple fact of the matter is that this is impossible, canadarocks is currently set on moderation if I remember correctly, while as myself as you can see I am disinvited for no specific reason if you check my last posts... Either way, no Moongamers isn't the place to go why?If people have a problem with Moongamers, their best place to discuss this would be the Moongamers Forums, or on the Moongamers TeamSpeak. Doesn't that seem like a good place? Problems with Moongamers - Go to Moongamers. The TeamSpeak IP is right there on the frontpage at Moongamers.com, no password needed. Feel free to stop by and talk to us.
http://www.moongamers.com/forum/index.p … opic=14317
As you can see, it totally goes off topic...
Quoting parts of the thread "Noobie Style":How is that any of your business?Freedom of speech does not apply to private forums, like these.I've had enough of your crap canada. If you don't like it, leave.These are words that come straight out of Moongamers Forums, these are words from Sr.Admins and Core, best place to discuss you say. You tell me.We have more to do with our time than argue with you when you are never wrong.
The thread that you mentioned started out as a possible thread for positive discussion, but quickly turned to a heated debate about the responsibilities of the admins and how the rules *should* be. I personally have nothing wrong with a simple discussion, but once Canada got his answer about that core/Sr's are discussing the rules and addressing any possible changes, the thread had fufilled its purpose. Everything else after that was it just going a bit too far.
BTW: Disinvited, is just a more friendly way to say Banned. I know nothing of reasons however, so I can not say.
RyanVeltidi wrote:
Actually I meant what I said to the other players complaining that have not gone to the Moongamers forums to discuss this sort of thing. Those that have, have been given their answers and specifics.chinesemaster006 wrote:
Simple fact of the matter is that this is impossible, canadarocks is currently set on moderation if I remember correctly, while as myself as you can see I am disinvited for no specific reason if you check my last posts... Either way, no Moongamers isn't the place to go why?If people have a problem with Moongamers, their best place to discuss this would be the Moongamers Forums, or on the Moongamers TeamSpeak. Doesn't that seem like a good place? Problems with Moongamers - Go to Moongamers. The TeamSpeak IP is right there on the frontpage at Moongamers.com, no password needed. Feel free to stop by and talk to us.
http://www.moongamers.com/forum/index.p … opic=14317
As you can see, it totally goes off topic...
Quoting parts of the thread "Noobie Style":How is that any of your business?Freedom of speech does not apply to private forums, like these.I've had enough of your crap canada. If you don't like it, leave.These are words that come straight out of Moongamers Forums, these are words from Sr.Admins and Core, best place to discuss you say. You tell me.We have more to do with our time than argue with you when you are never wrong.
The thread that you mentioned started out as a possible thread for positive discussion, but quickly turned to a heated debate about the responsibilities of the admins and how the rules *should* be. I personally have nothing wrong with a simple discussion, but once Canada got his answer about that core/Sr's are discussing the rules and addressing any possible changes, the thread had fufilled its purpose. Everything else after that was it just going a bit too far.
BTW: Disinvited, is just a more friendly way to say Banned. I know nothing of reasons however, so I can not say.
I never got my answer..thats the problem mate!!!!
What I got "it equals the playing field"
and "you can go play elsewhere if you dont like are rules"
These aren't the kind of responses I was looking for...again whytwokay, you are not reading the entire threads.
Gamers like myself, opschief and blackstone went into detail why servers should abandon such spawn camping rules...we have heard nothing back in the contrary to support why the rule is in place.
What I got "it equals the playing field"
and "you can go play elsewhere if you dont like are rules"
These aren't the kind of responses I was looking for...again whytwokay, you are not reading the entire threads.
Gamers like myself, opschief and blackstone went into detail why servers should abandon such spawn camping rules...we have heard nothing back in the contrary to support why the rule is in place.
You were banned for using profane language. Its a time ban, and will expire soon. Watch your language next time.BudyFX wrote:
lol I am BANNED BY MOONGAMERS SERVERS.. and by tv2ranked servers.. what i did :S.. lol
1) Has nothing to do.. general statement.OpsChief wrote:
I joined this thread because of they way moon admins were disrespecting by flaming the poor guy who in distress started this thread. He has a right to complain and look for answer, do you agree? The thread topic was expanded by the moon admins to include what rules, how they are enforced and whether they are evenly enforced, and finally whether a couple of the rules are even Ranked ROE legit.-=FS=-andrew wrote:
I am sick of hearing people complaining about Moon just because they get kicked for breaking the rules.... GROW UP.. You break the rules, and you get kicked, dont be female dogging it around... If everyone here reads other people post on why the were kicked and why they are complaining.. you will see that they say something that is breakin the rules..
IF YOU PEOPLE don't like it.. suck it up and find another server....
What does your comment have to do with this thread and making BF2 a better place to play?
How do your insults reflect maturity and respect to others?
Are you an admin at moongamers too?
What does "GROW[N] UP" look like to you? (in a forum thread that is)
Improving our admin processes depends on remaining focussed on the issue or situation not the person.
2)what insults?
3) yes i am
4) Dont act like you 8-12 years old.. Don't be comming on a forum, making a thread just becuase you broke the rules and got kicked/banned
How do you respond to a poor response to a post...you dont-=FS=-andrew wrote:
1) Has nothing to do.. general statement.OpsChief wrote:
I joined this thread because of they way moon admins were disrespecting by flaming the poor guy who in distress started this thread. He has a right to complain and look for answer, do you agree? The thread topic was expanded by the moon admins to include what rules, how they are enforced and whether they are evenly enforced, and finally whether a couple of the rules are even Ranked ROE legit.-=FS=-andrew wrote:
I am sick of hearing people complaining about Moon just because they get kicked for breaking the rules.... GROW UP.. You break the rules, and you get kicked, dont be female dogging it around... If everyone here reads other people post on why the were kicked and why they are complaining.. you will see that they say something that is breakin the rules..
IF YOU PEOPLE don't like it.. suck it up and find another server....
What does your comment have to do with this thread and making BF2 a better place to play?
How do your insults reflect maturity and respect to others?
Are you an admin at moongamers too?
What does "GROW[N] UP" look like to you? (in a forum thread that is)
Improving our admin processes depends on remaining focussed on the issue or situation not the person.
2)what insults?
3) yes i am
4) Dont act like you 8-12 years old.. Don't be comming on a forum, making a thread just becuase you broke the rules and got kicked/banned
Maybe I messed up, but did I complain in this thread or am I just guilty of saying something you don't like to hear? Flaming is not a viable defense m8. And after reading your threads over at moongamers I would not post there. One thread I read has admins flaming a person in every reply, EVERY REPLY. Who wants to go there? A neutral respectful venue is best.-=FS=-andrew wrote:
1) Has nothing to do.. general statement.OpsChief wrote:
I joined this thread because of they way moon admins were disrespecting by flaming the poor guy who in distress started this thread. He has a right to complain and look for answer, do you agree? The thread topic was expanded by the moon admins to include what rules, how they are enforced and whether they are evenly enforced, and finally whether a couple of the rules are even Ranked ROE legit.-=FS=-andrew wrote:
I am sick of hearing people complaining about Moon just because they get kicked for breaking the rules.... GROW UP.. You break the rules, and you get kicked, dont be female dogging it around... If everyone here reads other people post on why the were kicked and why they are complaining.. you will see that they say something that is breakin the rules..
IF YOU PEOPLE don't like it.. suck it up and find another server....
What does your comment have to do with this thread and making BF2 a better place to play?
How do your insults reflect maturity and respect to others?
Are you an admin at moongamers too?
What does "GROW[N] UP" look like to you? (in a forum thread that is)
Improving our admin processes depends on remaining focussed on the issue or situation not the person.
2)what insults?
3) yes i am
4) Dont act like you 8-12 years old.. Don't be comming on a forum, making a thread just becuase you broke the rules and got kicked/banned
1. The purpose someone is involved always has something to do with a situation.
2. I see now, the "female dogging it around" "GROW-UP" and "act like you 8-12" were not insults!
3. ...
4. I as far as I know have never actually broken a rule at moongamers but I have been accused of same and kicked, except maybe idling once or twice.
If you become aware of a problem and ignore it because it isn't where or how you wanted to find out that's your problem not mine.
I don't care that you have spawn fences. Its good for some. But one of YOUR ADMINS challenged me to explain why I think the armor specific limits are in violation of the ROE. I answered him and no flaming on my part, yet. But have any of you given me the courtesy of a logical reply? I have been flamed or insulted 20 times before and after with no specific answer. The best I get is "we are friends with BF2RS and they say we are good". Friends. Right. Moongamers' answer is they contacted friends at BF2RS and the friend said they are OK, when? I will believe it when I see it (and admit it too) and know that they read my analysis before confirming the legitimacy of the armor limitations on a ranked server. OK now I flamed, sort of.
And I have offered to assist in anyway I can and speak in TS with some of your more respected and senior admins but have not heard back on that offer.
Good Luck and Have Fun
Last edited by OpsChief (2006-07-11 20:01:32)
WHYTWOKAYRyanVeltidi wrote:
.
I believe you and I have played and talked before, m8. I appreciate someone who comes in and does not flame to stop someone else from speaking out, thank you.
The number of complaints vs the number of people playing on moongamers as a way to legitimize rules is a logical fallacy, any one of the complaints may have sufficient merit to create a will to correct an error. We should be vigilant with our success not ignorant.
While the rest of this thread has gone every-which-way I am interested in only one answer. I was asked by a moongamers admin early in this thread to show why I concluded that the USMC armor spawn fences are against the ROE. I took the challenge seriously, took the time and did an analysis and replied it to the requestor without charging a consulting fee Frankly I was surprised to see that not one but perhaps four ROE lines are in direct and/or combined violation according to my reading and understanding and participation in threads forming the ROE.
Friendships are great but you know that's not an answer to my specific point, m8. Show how my math is wrong, or a flawed logic or misapplication of ROE, something, don't tell me they are friends with the judge! Even the authors of the ROE may not have done this specific and detailed analysis of every rules nuance on every server. But from time to time some server gets shutdown because they strayed too far for too long so we need to help each other out when we see something that looks wrong.
In fact if this were an investigation into breach of ethics or laws it would force hightened interest not reduced! People would begin to find impartial arbitrators to verify it so the friends don't get hammered (in a bad way). I have in good faith offered my assistance to an admin of moongamers whom I respect to meet on TS or whatever and received no reply.
To your "best place to post" comment, I have read many threads at moongamers forum and I strongly disagree with you on that point, it is not the best place to air a grievance or attempt to get respectful replies. I had intended to take this thread to moongamers but as I sat for 30-45 minutes reading thread after thread, post after post I decided against it. In one case maybe only 1 out of 7-8 replies I read were respectful, or not disrespectful, to the OP. Most were like they did to me and others here, no answers just insults. It's OK I'm patient I'm not out to get anyone so I can wait. Even if moongamers are squeaky-clean in every single decision they have ever made in 2 1/2 yrs I see no justification to flame people even if the people started the flaming. Flaming isn't justice or evidence or logic so it isn't needed.
If Moongamers feel that I do not deserve an answer to the requested analysis I gave your admin get the senior admin who has not flamed me to say so clearly.
Good Luck and Have Fun m8
Last edited by OpsChief (2006-07-11 20:05:25)
Ops: In all honesty, I do not know all of the methods or ways one could interpret the ROE to comply with their servers as working. I have never actually approached anybody about this issues, nor have I done a full comparison. I was basing my reasoning that Moon is very friendly with BF2RS, and I feel that they would have told us something about our rules not being in line. I am essentially trusting in the Core/Sr's that the rules are in following of the ROE.
I know there has been debate about if this really counts as a spawn-camping rule, as it is not an uncappable base. I am not an avid gamer of the Karkand map, although I do enjoy the map very much when I do play it, it is listed as my #1 map as far as playtime, but that was back when I only played the 16 player version, which played out much differently. Anyhoo, back to what I was saying. I know Karkand well enough that that outpost can get camping by the APC and tanks to the point where there is no chance for the MEC to hold it. I understand that you can spawn elsewhere, but not everbody will do that, or they could be reduced to just that outpost.
Recap: I've never done a comparison of the Rules vs ROE thing, so I can't myself personally say that they comply, but based on the people I have contact with, and the people that Moon know, it seems like they fall within the guidelines.
I know there has been debate about if this really counts as a spawn-camping rule, as it is not an uncappable base. I am not an avid gamer of the Karkand map, although I do enjoy the map very much when I do play it, it is listed as my #1 map as far as playtime, but that was back when I only played the 16 player version, which played out much differently. Anyhoo, back to what I was saying. I know Karkand well enough that that outpost can get camping by the APC and tanks to the point where there is no chance for the MEC to hold it. I understand that you can spawn elsewhere, but not everbody will do that, or they could be reduced to just that outpost.
Recap: I've never done a comparison of the Rules vs ROE thing, so I can't myself personally say that they comply, but based on the people I have contact with, and the people that Moon know, it seems like they fall within the guidelines.
so if nobody complains there are no problems? I undertsand your words but don't understand the position.
For clarity are you saying: "If higher authority has not seen and ruled that we are in violation then we aren't in violation."?
thx bud
For clarity are you saying: "If higher authority has not seen and ruled that we are in violation then we aren't in violation."?
thx bud
I am not happy with the way some of our admins have represented us in here, but we do not restrict them from posting; we just ask that they do not represent us when they do.
Canada, your thread started out on a disrespectful note to begin with. There are ways of expressing your opinion without being downright insulting...but you made a choice and it went downhill from there. Why do we have rules, especially in a map that was designed to be a spawn camping, stat padding, rank whoring map?
When we started that server it was started without map rules. That was the way we wanted it. Then came Firestorm and with him came more whores than most of you have probably seen in the game. The higher he climbed in rank, the worse it got. The game ( <--- that is an operative word) got shorter and shorter as the same players would take the equipment and camp the living daylights out of the map. The name MoonGamers became synonymous with "camp heaven". It got to the point where we decided that we weren't going to pay the price that we pay for the server for 1/4 of the players to have fun and gain rank when 3/4 of the players only rotated in and out because of Firestorm. In addition, yes...it is true, we strive to attract a certain type of player...one that likes our community the way it is, and will become productive in the community whether that is by being an admin, or a contributor, or both. That would not happen with the server the way it was at the time. Why do we want to attract a certain type of player? Because we are a donation driven community; none of us are wealthy by any means, and these BF2 servers are not cheap. When the Sr Admins of the server brought the request for rules to the Sr Admin/Core forum, the proposed rules were discussed and reviewed, and we implemented them. The map time increased and we received positive feedback; however, the rules are being reviewed again because of the complexity and ambiguity that we have seen...and they will continue to be reviewed and tweaked until we feel the ruleset and the map are in harmony.
Ops, if you contacted someone from MoonGamers Sr Admin/Core team, you will receive a response...depending on the medium you used and how soon they see that communication. In the meantime, I hope this answers some of your questions. If not, members of the Sr Admin/Core team can be found in TeamSpeak.
Lin
Founder/Core
MoonGamers
Canada, your thread started out on a disrespectful note to begin with. There are ways of expressing your opinion without being downright insulting...but you made a choice and it went downhill from there. Why do we have rules, especially in a map that was designed to be a spawn camping, stat padding, rank whoring map?
When we started that server it was started without map rules. That was the way we wanted it. Then came Firestorm and with him came more whores than most of you have probably seen in the game. The higher he climbed in rank, the worse it got. The game ( <--- that is an operative word) got shorter and shorter as the same players would take the equipment and camp the living daylights out of the map. The name MoonGamers became synonymous with "camp heaven". It got to the point where we decided that we weren't going to pay the price that we pay for the server for 1/4 of the players to have fun and gain rank when 3/4 of the players only rotated in and out because of Firestorm. In addition, yes...it is true, we strive to attract a certain type of player...one that likes our community the way it is, and will become productive in the community whether that is by being an admin, or a contributor, or both. That would not happen with the server the way it was at the time. Why do we want to attract a certain type of player? Because we are a donation driven community; none of us are wealthy by any means, and these BF2 servers are not cheap. When the Sr Admins of the server brought the request for rules to the Sr Admin/Core forum, the proposed rules were discussed and reviewed, and we implemented them. The map time increased and we received positive feedback; however, the rules are being reviewed again because of the complexity and ambiguity that we have seen...and they will continue to be reviewed and tweaked until we feel the ruleset and the map are in harmony.
Ops, if you contacted someone from MoonGamers Sr Admin/Core team, you will receive a response...depending on the medium you used and how soon they see that communication. In the meantime, I hope this answers some of your questions. If not, members of the Sr Admin/Core team can be found in TeamSpeak.
Lin
Founder/Core
MoonGamers
Lin, Check your PMsLin wrote:
Ops, if you contacted someone from MoonGamers Sr Admin/Core team, you will receive a response...depending on the medium you used and how soon they see that communication. In the meantime, I hope this answers some of your questions. If not, members of the Sr Admin/Core team can be found in TeamSpeak.
Lin
Founder/Core
MoonGamers
Last edited by OpsChief (2006-07-11 21:18:09)
ROFL! I did that just after posting...now check yours!
I will address the only two salient points from all of this.
#1 - Where does it state anything whatsoever about ranked servers having to preserve the "360 degree battlefield"? That is only YOUR preference, but it does not fall within OUR guidelines for OUR servers, which WE PAY FOR and ADMINISTER.
#2 - Reading carefully is an excellent way to understand stuff. Someone quoted at some point item 2.3 of the ROE, but if you look above said item of the ROE you will see a heading which reads:
"2 EA OFFICIAL PUBLIC SERVER RULES
These are rules that EA official server administrators enforce to maintain friendly, disciplined servers and are in addition to the global rules defined above."
It states in plain english that: the rules above are GLOBAL and the ones BELOW, meaning item 2 and above, apply to EA's PUBLIC SERVERS - which Moongamers' are not. We are a privately owned non-profit gaming community, therefore EA's rules for THEIR private servers DO NOT apply to us or our PRIVATE RANKED servers.
I hope that clears that up.
As for Karkand's rules being complex, unwieldy and unevenly applied, that may all be true, but it only means they need to be tweaked and the staff need to be trained again. We got too much positive feedback to scrap those rules overnight because someone would prefer to camp in an APC instead of on foot. Basically that's all the rules do. That means that you'll have to camp in an APC on some other server that allows you to do it, that's all. No hard feelings. And in the off chance that we do come to the conclusion that we should scrap those rules it will be because WE think it is best for our own reasons, not because you said so or for the reasons you stated.
Another point you must realize is that while we may listen to what you have to say we reserve the right to disagree and actually may do the opposite of what you would prefer. That is our prerogative and no amount of insistence will change that. Just because we pursue similar ideals from different approaches doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other one is wrong. It just means that variety is the spice of life and if you don't like one dish, or server, you can always find another more to your liking. You guys seem to be intelligent and eloquent enough to realize all of this on your own, that is why I cannot understand why you are even pursuing this or what you expect to achieve. You have your own clan and your own server. Shouldn't you be playing in it and adminning it instead of worrying about other people's servers? You remind me of a widow that lived next door to my grandma and was always spying through the curtains and talking about it with her friends. Nothing better to do, I guess.
#1 - Where does it state anything whatsoever about ranked servers having to preserve the "360 degree battlefield"? That is only YOUR preference, but it does not fall within OUR guidelines for OUR servers, which WE PAY FOR and ADMINISTER.
#2 - Reading carefully is an excellent way to understand stuff. Someone quoted at some point item 2.3 of the ROE, but if you look above said item of the ROE you will see a heading which reads:
"2 EA OFFICIAL PUBLIC SERVER RULES
These are rules that EA official server administrators enforce to maintain friendly, disciplined servers and are in addition to the global rules defined above."
It states in plain english that: the rules above are GLOBAL and the ones BELOW, meaning item 2 and above, apply to EA's PUBLIC SERVERS - which Moongamers' are not. We are a privately owned non-profit gaming community, therefore EA's rules for THEIR private servers DO NOT apply to us or our PRIVATE RANKED servers.
I hope that clears that up.
As for Karkand's rules being complex, unwieldy and unevenly applied, that may all be true, but it only means they need to be tweaked and the staff need to be trained again. We got too much positive feedback to scrap those rules overnight because someone would prefer to camp in an APC instead of on foot. Basically that's all the rules do. That means that you'll have to camp in an APC on some other server that allows you to do it, that's all. No hard feelings. And in the off chance that we do come to the conclusion that we should scrap those rules it will be because WE think it is best for our own reasons, not because you said so or for the reasons you stated.
Another point you must realize is that while we may listen to what you have to say we reserve the right to disagree and actually may do the opposite of what you would prefer. That is our prerogative and no amount of insistence will change that. Just because we pursue similar ideals from different approaches doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other one is wrong. It just means that variety is the spice of life and if you don't like one dish, or server, you can always find another more to your liking. You guys seem to be intelligent and eloquent enough to realize all of this on your own, that is why I cannot understand why you are even pursuing this or what you expect to achieve. You have your own clan and your own server. Shouldn't you be playing in it and adminning it instead of worrying about other people's servers? You remind me of a widow that lived next door to my grandma and was always spying through the curtains and talking about it with her friends. Nothing better to do, I guess.
Last edited by Noobie1 Canoli (2006-07-11 22:26:06)
I have a passion for the game of BF2 in its truest/purest form and would disagree with any server that happened to alter the original rules of play.Noobie1 Canoli wrote:
I will address the only two salient points from all of this.
#1 - Where does it state anything whatsoever about ranked servers having to preserve the "360 degree battlefield"? That is only YOUR preference, but it does not fall within OUR guidelines for OUR servers, which WE PAY FOR and ADMINISTER.
#2 - Reading carefully is an excellent way to understand stuff. Someone quoted at some point item 2.3 of the ROE, but if you look above said item of the ROE you will see a heading which reads:
"2 EA OFFICIAL PUBLIC SERVER RULES
These are rules that EA official server administrators enforce to maintain friendly, disciplined servers and are in addition to the global rules defined above."
It states in plain english that: the rules above are GLOBAL and the ones BELOW, meaning item 2 and above, apply to EA's PUBLIC SERVERS - which Moongamers' are not. We are a privately owned non-profit gaming community, therefore EA's rules for THEIR private servers DO NOT apply to us or our PRIVATE RANKED servers.
I hope that clears that up.
As for Karkand's rules being complex, unwieldy and unevenly applied, that may all be true, but it only means they need to be tweaked and the staff need to be trained again. We got too much positive feedback to scrap those rules overnight because someone would prefer to camp in an APC instead of on foot. Basically that's all the rules do. That means that you'll have to camp in an APC on some other server that allows you to do it, that's all. No hard feelings. And in the off chance that we do come to the conclusion that we should scrap those rules it will be because WE think it is best for our own reasons, not because you said so or for the reasons you stated.
Another point you must realize is that while we may listen to what you have to say we reserve the right to disagree and actually may do the opposite of what you would prefer. That is our prerogative and no amount of insistence will change that. Just because we pursue similar ideals from different approaches doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other one is wrong. It just means that variety is the spice of life and if you don't like one dish, or server, you can always find another more to your liking. You guys seem to be intelligent and eloquent enough to realize all of this on your own, that is why I cannot understand why you are even pursuing this or what you expect to achieve. You have your own clan and your own server. Shouldn't you be playing in it and adminning it instead of worrying about other people's servers? You remind me of a widow that lived next door to my grandma and was always spying through the curtains and talking about it with her friends. Nothing better to do, I guess.
This is why I spend so much time defending the original form of play.
Hi Lin..I re-read my whole thread at moongamers...and saved them to my file. Sorry, but I fail to see where I started off being disrespectful. It surely cant be because I disagreed with the rules in place. I didnt flame moongamers in my first thread....and perhaps only a hint of flame towards the end out of frustration because I didnt get an answer directly related to my question.Lin wrote:
I am not happy with the way some of our admins have represented us in here, but we do not restrict them from posting; we just ask that they do not represent us when they do.
Canada, your thread started out on a disrespectful note to begin with. There are ways of expressing your opinion without being downright insulting...but you made a choice and it went downhill from there. Why do we have rules, especially in a map that was designed to be a spawn camping, stat padding, rank whoring map?
When we started that server it was started without map rules. That was the way we wanted it. Then came Firestorm and with him came more whores than most of you have probably seen in the game. The higher he climbed in rank, the worse it got. The game ( <--- that is an operative word) got shorter and shorter as the same players would take the equipment and camp the living daylights out of the map. The name MoonGamers became synonymous with "camp heaven". It got to the point where we decided that we weren't going to pay the price that we pay for the server for 1/4 of the players to have fun and gain rank when 3/4 of the players only rotated in and out because of Firestorm. In addition, yes...it is true, we strive to attract a certain type of player...one that likes our community the way it is, and will become productive in the community whether that is by being an admin, or a contributor, or both. That would not happen with the server the way it was at the time. Why do we want to attract a certain type of player? Because we are a donation driven community; none of us are wealthy by any means, and these BF2 servers are not cheap. When the Sr Admins of the server brought the request for rules to the Sr Admin/Core forum, the proposed rules were discussed and reviewed, and we implemented them. The map time increased and we received positive feedback; however, the rules are being reviewed again because of the complexity and ambiguity that we have seen...and they will continue to be reviewed and tweaked until we feel the ruleset and the map are in harmony.
Ops, if you contacted someone from MoonGamers Sr Admin/Core team, you will receive a response...depending on the medium you used and how soon they see that communication. In the meantime, I hope this answers some of your questions. If not, members of the Sr Admin/Core team can be found in TeamSpeak.
Lin
Founder/Core
MoonGamers
Last edited by canadarocks (2006-07-12 04:30:12)
You referred to our rules as "silly rules"...we don't consider them to be "silly", and don't wish to see them undermined in our forum. As I told you there, if you want a debate, don't use subjective terms. Anyhoo, I've spent enough time on this thread...I'm outta here.
Happy Gaming!
Lin
Happy Gaming!
Lin
I would have to say that the term "silly" used in that thread was more of a deductive term over a subjective term. His reasoning for the use of such term may be found in this thread. As well as many different users are in disagreement of the way Moongamers Rules are interpreted and enforced.
When I say enforced...
If you consider the term "silly" as a flame, then consider this as candy compared to what you and your admins say to different users.
When I say enforced...
This above is an example of what we call Abuse of Admin Powers. Randomly kicking people in order to kick the "hacker".I kicked a few people and it stopped. It's really hard to tell who's doing it and takes time.
Source: http://www.moongamers.com/forum/index.p … p;p=221919
Author: wasabi - Game Admin BF
If you consider the term "silly" as a flame, then consider this as candy compared to what you and your admins say to different users.
Surely sounds like Moongamers to me...Noobie1 Canoli wrote:
You remind me of a widow that lived next door to my grandma and was always spying through the curtains and talking about it with her friends. Nothing better to do, I guess.
Last edited by chinesemaster006 (2006-07-12 07:37:16)
im going to say this one more time people so get the wax out of your ears.
if you dont like the server rules on moongamers, then just dont play there anymore. I know i dont.
let that smacktard ta.firestorm make his stupid ass rules, flame people, and spend 8+ hrs comanderwhoring.
i got freakin kicked three times by that dude. my friend had the same problem with him also
if you dont like the server rules on moongamers, then just dont play there anymore. I know i dont.
let that smacktard ta.firestorm make his stupid ass rules, flame people, and spend 8+ hrs comanderwhoring.
i got freakin kicked three times by that dude. my friend had the same problem with him also
Sounds like good teamwork to me. Why would you purposely make a rule against that?Kolhozik wrote:
when its your last flag or they are all Engies and stick together, you cant do shit. While with this rule the MEC Team still has a chance.
Yes, good teamwork!! Great teamwork and common sense counters all armour campers!!remo wrote:
Sounds like good teamwork to me. Why would you purposely make a rule against that?Kolhozik wrote:
when its your last flag or they are all Engies and stick together, you cant do shit. While with this rule the MEC Team still has a chance.
Perhaps a rule like this is made to satisfy the monetary contributers to a gaming server..I have no real answer to that one...makes no sense.
....... KILLING A FEW PPL IS NOT SPAWNCAMPING!... ITS CALLED DEFENSE!!!!!!!!! seriously, now sitting at a spawn is camping, not riding through and killing a few! if they camp, spawn somewhere else! simple!!!!
For the word "silly"...my thread was dismissed?...Okay...hmmmLin wrote:
You referred to our rules as "silly rules"...we don't consider them to be "silly", and don't wish to see them undermined in our forum. As I told you there, if you want a debate, don't use subjective terms. Anyhoo, I've spent enough time on this thread...I'm outta here.
Happy Gaming!
Lin
I mistook your forum for open comments that were the opinions of the postee..my mistake, sorry
Last edited by canadarocks (2006-07-12 09:30:42)
Topic closed
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