Exactly. If the Jet is in Bomb mode, any manned vehicle is marked by the radar, so hiding in trees does not really help.T1mbrW0lf wrote:
Actually, "what matters" was that you were sitting still - and his targeting radar will show him EXACTLY where you are as long as the vehicle is manned.HG_TheTank wrote:
Won't matter for some with 'skill'.
Last time on the oilrefinery map (with the 4 oil silos) I was hiding with the AA in the trees and the guy still found me. On his first pass. He knew were I was even before I saw him.
Re-read that part about how Mobile AA is supposed to be mobile . . .
I dunno, I think as AA, taking cover is better than being mobile. Being mobile doesnt make a huge difference when you enemy is much faster than you. I bomb jeeps all the time, they're quite a bit faster than AA tanks. But really buildings make better cover than trees. The corridors between two slant roof buildings is best, decent visabilty and hard to bomb. But it all depends what direction the jet is coming from. And try not to be in the same place twice.atlvolunteer wrote:
Exactly. If the Jet is in Bomb mode, any manned vehicle is marked by the radar, so hiding in trees does not really help.T1mbrW0lf wrote:
Actually, "what matters" was that you were sitting still - and his targeting radar will show him EXACTLY where you are as long as the vehicle is manned.HG_TheTank wrote:
Won't matter for some with 'skill'.
Last time on the oilrefinery map (with the 4 oil silos) I was hiding with the AA in the trees and the guy still found me. On his first pass. He knew were I was even before I saw him.
Re-read that part about how Mobile AA is supposed to be mobile . . .
But I dont know about you guys, but it seems like guns are more effective vs planes than the crap AA missiles.
It makes a difference if you hang a hard right / left turn once a jet has committed to its bomb run; and it also matters greatly if you make frequent random turns, and avoid running straight down roads when moving from one area to another.Dizazter wrote:
I dunno, I think as AA, taking cover is better than being mobile. Being mobile doesnt make a huge difference when you enemy is much faster than you.
Like I said: Learn how to negotiate open areas while still doing turret sweeps (or tracking targets); and learn to avoid tracking targets you're not prepared to engage on your most favorable terms.
At the risk of being flamed, I'd like to mention that I'm one of those pilot people. I don't do it to 'whore,' I fly because its damned fun. And because jets can really help your team if you use them right. If I have a choice I go for a bomber over a fighter, because of it's destructive power on ground targets. I'll fly through the map picking off random vehicles, but what I'm really waiting for is for ground troops to spot APCs and tanks that are rolling into our bases. I think the value to the team is immense if jets are used to take out enemy armor when it shows up at a place that has no defense against it. Plus I'd love to see the faces of some poor medic thats the only one defending a base against two APCs when my F-15 rips them to pieces. But I digress.
AA might not be as effective as some people would like, but if a team uses it right, it can almost nullify the effect of enemy airpower. Let me tell you what the most annoying sound in the world is. Its that damned missile lock warning that I seem to hear from the time I take off to the time I explode into a tree. And when that dreaded beeping is in my headphones, I'm not dive-bombing tanks or bases, I'm turning and looping looking for the Stinger or mobile AA. A good example of using AA effectively is on Dragon Valley. I -hate- flying on that map if I'm USMC and the Chinese team uses their IGLAs. Almost every base on that map has AA, and when I'm getting shot at from all sides it makes me sad. They might not take me down...but only because I was turning and burning and, most importantly, too busy to harass their armor movements. Think about that when you debate the value of sitting in a Stinger emplacement next time. Also remember that the absolute best way to counter a marauding jet is with your own jet, so if the aircraft in this game piss you off, learn to dogfight and join us in the skies.
AA might not be as effective as some people would like, but if a team uses it right, it can almost nullify the effect of enemy airpower. Let me tell you what the most annoying sound in the world is. Its that damned missile lock warning that I seem to hear from the time I take off to the time I explode into a tree. And when that dreaded beeping is in my headphones, I'm not dive-bombing tanks or bases, I'm turning and looping looking for the Stinger or mobile AA. A good example of using AA effectively is on Dragon Valley. I -hate- flying on that map if I'm USMC and the Chinese team uses their IGLAs. Almost every base on that map has AA, and when I'm getting shot at from all sides it makes me sad. They might not take me down...but only because I was turning and burning and, most importantly, too busy to harass their armor movements. Think about that when you debate the value of sitting in a Stinger emplacement next time. Also remember that the absolute best way to counter a marauding jet is with your own jet, so if the aircraft in this game piss you off, learn to dogfight and join us in the skies.
IMO, it's annoying when the enemy has total air superiority (especially when they steal your jets), but it's a fact that aircraft cannot capture flags and they cannot be in two places at the same time. Once in Fushee Pass I alone as antitank kept defending one CP against three jets that kept harrassing me (especially when I hopped into the stationary AA, target/shoot them, then hop out before retaliation destroyed the AA) and the occasional Cobra/BH. I kept this up for about five minutes, and b/c the aircraft were so focused on killing me the rest of my team managed to capture two CPs.
My only real disappointment w/ aircraft is that only a few people can fly in any given map, b/c there's a max of two jets for either team. I was a pretty good dogfighter in Bf42/DC, but in BF2 I have no flight hours at all b/c I'm usually on the other side of the map when the planes respawn. I hope EA/DICE release a Battle of Britain/No Fly Zone type map. Ahh, good ol' Bf42/DC memories...
My only real disappointment w/ aircraft is that only a few people can fly in any given map, b/c there's a max of two jets for either team. I was a pretty good dogfighter in Bf42/DC, but in BF2 I have no flight hours at all b/c I'm usually on the other side of the map when the planes respawn. I hope EA/DICE release a Battle of Britain/No Fly Zone type map. Ahh, good ol' Bf42/DC memories...
yes and could we bring back some prop planes, i was "decent" @ prop plains
I hate doing AA because of TK's and punish..
Yeah I have that problem too, you have to be real careful not to fire at an enemy if a friendly air unit is ANYWHERE nearby, cause often the missile will deviate off the target and go for the friendly. It will never do this if there is another enemy behind your target. Must be a coding problem. But its yet another reason why no one likes to play AA.v1l2u5 wrote:
I hate doing AA because of TK's and punish..
Yeah I like the maps without airsupport, they dominate map. Even with AA/AT.
sholder fired aa would be cool... like you get to choose if you want to be anti tank or anti air.
I agree that the AA is aweful but i agree about the damn warning signal it keeps you dodging instead of attacking, and never underestimate small arms. While repairing team arty a jet flew overhead and i killed it with my shotgun, it was beautiful
In one game I would sit beside the stationary aa and wait for the jet to fly over then enter, get lock and fire. Got the thing 3 times in a row netting me 6 kills and 12 points and he stoped flying over our base. Don,t get me wrong aa sucks in this game but if used wisely it will net you a few kills in a game. Usually I only get a few kills in a game before they get wise and stay away. I am not that good and I wont stay in aa long (it is just asking for a bad kill/death ratio which I allready have) I will try for a couple of kills per game in it though.
I think the MEC Mobile AA isn't that bad, especially for attacking choppers. I do agree it could be MUCH better, especially the AA turrets. I generally get tone, wait for the impending flares, then launch either all the missiles and hope 1 will hit or just 1, wait for them to turn to get me and go for a head-on shot.
One suggestion I have to improve the AA is to improve the cannon on the mobile AA vehicles. The cannon on the Essex is very effective against jets and I love shooting them down with it. The advantage is that you're not putting your trust into the POS TK-seeking missiles.
You have to be careful about unbalancing the mobile AA's ground effectiveness, but if a 2nd cannon could be added to it for duel fire, or the rate of fire was significantly increased so that it was near that of the Essex, than actually being effective at AA would be much more feasible.
I'm unsure how the game is coded, but I imagine that the cannons themselves could be coded to do minimal dmg vs tanks and high dmg vs jets/heli's which would help keep them from being the FOTM ground pounders. Also, they are pretty much insta-kill vs infantry as they are now so any of the advantages would be negligible anyways.
Just a thought
You have to be careful about unbalancing the mobile AA's ground effectiveness, but if a 2nd cannon could be added to it for duel fire, or the rate of fire was significantly increased so that it was near that of the Essex, than actually being effective at AA would be much more feasible.
I'm unsure how the game is coded, but I imagine that the cannons themselves could be coded to do minimal dmg vs tanks and high dmg vs jets/heli's which would help keep them from being the FOTM ground pounders. Also, they are pretty much insta-kill vs infantry as they are now so any of the advantages would be negligible anyways.
Just a thought
I dunno about other people, but I got my AA ribbon on my second go at it playing on Kubra Dam. I think I had 4 jet kills and 4 chopper kills.
o_O this guy is amazing in a-air. does he know he spents like 1/7th of this playtime in a-air ? great job man! scare off those jet whores!WormGuts wrote:
Happy hunting...here's a friend of mine who is absolutely nasty in AA http://bf2s.com/player/46961517/
You want a nerf for fighter-bombers? They are called Fighters. J-10, F-18, MiG-29. Yeah, those things. Not just for breakfast anymore.
And i agree, a hearty airforce will dominate a map. you know what? thats an echo of real life, eh? Aircraft are supposed to be powerful, they are supposed to be able to swing the power in the map one way or another.
i remember in the days of DC, if you got into a heli, you had about a 30 second lifespan. this was due to two factors: a - any map with a heli was a large outdoor map, with alot of tank warfare. where you find tanks, you find anti-tanks. where you find anti-tanks, you find stingers. b - stingers could drop you with 1 or 2 hits. this is not realitic, per se. for one, flares work pretty good against stingers, and in real life, you can drop a flare every couple of seconds. also, in real life, there is no lock tone for a heater. you have to rely on your eyes. and a good jet (a-10, su-25) can take a couple of stinger shots and keep coming at you.
i also remember in DC, many maps had 3-4 aircraft. aircraft also reloaded in air. so yeah, i could come in with a 5 bomb run, then come back seconds later with another 3 bombs, then come back 30 seconds later, never returning to my base, and hit you again. on the flip side, fighters didnt have bombs, but if some chap in BF2 hits you with a fighters bombs, than he deserves the kill.
quit whining about being pounded by the fighter-bombers. it *does* take skill to stay airborn in one for more than a few minutes, at least if you are making any sort of difference. and i dont care who you are, if your in a fighter-bomber, and im in a fighter, you are gonna either be running for your life, then dying eventually, or you are gonna be making one bomb run and then fnding yourself dead.
And i agree, a hearty airforce will dominate a map. you know what? thats an echo of real life, eh? Aircraft are supposed to be powerful, they are supposed to be able to swing the power in the map one way or another.
i remember in the days of DC, if you got into a heli, you had about a 30 second lifespan. this was due to two factors: a - any map with a heli was a large outdoor map, with alot of tank warfare. where you find tanks, you find anti-tanks. where you find anti-tanks, you find stingers. b - stingers could drop you with 1 or 2 hits. this is not realitic, per se. for one, flares work pretty good against stingers, and in real life, you can drop a flare every couple of seconds. also, in real life, there is no lock tone for a heater. you have to rely on your eyes. and a good jet (a-10, su-25) can take a couple of stinger shots and keep coming at you.
i also remember in DC, many maps had 3-4 aircraft. aircraft also reloaded in air. so yeah, i could come in with a 5 bomb run, then come back seconds later with another 3 bombs, then come back 30 seconds later, never returning to my base, and hit you again. on the flip side, fighters didnt have bombs, but if some chap in BF2 hits you with a fighters bombs, than he deserves the kill.
quit whining about being pounded by the fighter-bombers. it *does* take skill to stay airborn in one for more than a few minutes, at least if you are making any sort of difference. and i dont care who you are, if your in a fighter-bomber, and im in a fighter, you are gonna either be running for your life, then dying eventually, or you are gonna be making one bomb run and then fnding yourself dead.
i think that the jets shouldn't have flares at all.
they are fast enough with afterburners to get out of sraw's and helicopter fire, but the real pilots can even escape stingers- top gun gung ho style.
Flares on the jets make them very powerful because they stay in the air soooooo much longer.
flares on a helo- ok
on a jet? 1000 mph...who needs flares? bit of overkill if you ask me.
maybe change the flares to a smoke screen?
they are fast enough with afterburners to get out of sraw's and helicopter fire, but the real pilots can even escape stingers- top gun gung ho style.
Flares on the jets make them very powerful because they stay in the air soooooo much longer.
flares on a helo- ok
on a jet? 1000 mph...who needs flares? bit of overkill if you ask me.
maybe change the flares to a smoke screen?
Last edited by eatmywheaties (2005-11-16 12:37:39)
I think how we employ the AA has to be "re-thunk". I have been practicing with the AA, both mobile and immobile with moderate success. I get hits and a few kills. At least enough to encourage me to continue. And it does require some skill. You must know your enemy. A good pilot WILL find you. Don't sit in the hot-seat waiting to be a statistic. Be smart and be patient. Your PRIMARY goal is to keep the pilots from scoring easy ground kills. Your secondary objective should be to kill them.
With that said, how can you really stick it to a pilot? I think the best answer is for a squad to split up amongst the various AA emplacements and coordinate their attacks over VOIP. No one emplacement can cover an entire map, but if all of them are under some kind of general control and were to take shots on a single target, in turn, as the pilot moves over the map, he wouldn't stand a chance.
Secondly, the most obvious objective of your team should be to deny the other team air assets. Therefore, I think it fair to say that if your entire team were to focus on securing the CP's with air assets first, you will almost always win the battle.
With that said, how can you really stick it to a pilot? I think the best answer is for a squad to split up amongst the various AA emplacements and coordinate their attacks over VOIP. No one emplacement can cover an entire map, but if all of them are under some kind of general control and were to take shots on a single target, in turn, as the pilot moves over the map, he wouldn't stand a chance.
Secondly, the most obvious objective of your team should be to deny the other team air assets. Therefore, I think it fair to say that if your entire team were to focus on securing the CP's with air assets first, you will almost always win the battle.
I agree with you completely.eatmywheaties wrote:
i think that the jets shouldn't have flares at all.
they are fast enough with afterburners to get out of sraw's and helicopter fire, but the real pilots can even escape stingers- top gun gung ho style.
Flares on the jets make them very powerful because they stay in the air soooooo much longer.
flares on a helo- ok
on a jet? 1000 mph...who needs flares? bit of overkill if you ask me.
maybe change the flares to a smoke screen?
But a smoke screen ? Come on, that would be weird.
It would have no use at all.
hah..fine give the jets NOTHING MAHAHAHHA!
im all for that.
im all for that.
I'm a pilot first and foremost and I think its one of the most fun features of BF2. A lone AA is useless, does it still freak me out? Yes. That Beeping of a lock on has an instinctive motion associated with it. I press down that afterburner button and start turning and dodging like mad till the beeping stops, I usually switch views to try to aquire what the threat is and respond accordingly. jets can turn the tide of the battle. But there are AAs located at various locations on the maps, its not impossible to shoot down a jet. I've been shot down before a few times myself. A lone AA will NEVER do the trick unless you really catch the pilot at a bad moment (no flares/afterburner advailable) A group of AA will do the trick though. If you had 2 or 3 guys manning AA it would almost force the pilot to fly way off course to even collect their thoughts on how they will proceed. The threat of AA is not as much to destroy the target, but to deter the target.
I to am a pilot and if i'm in the fighters my first objective is to find the bombers and stop there bombing runs.
but when it comes to people playing mobile AA i agree the missles are easy to get past but that cannon really pisses me off. there have been many times as a bomber i come in to an area to drop a load and start getting masshed with cannon fire. I will finish my run first but when i try to get out of there that aa cannon can follow for a long ways even past the point of not being able to see the jet. you just have to know how to lead the target better. anyhow when i finally get away i am usually way below half life and will try to heal a bit before another run.
jets also need to work with the ground troops or really be effective. yeah they get lots of kills but if they arn't actively helping the team and there just bombing for the points more often then not there team doesn't do as well. i have learned this cause i used to go for points but lost the round a lot. now i try to bomb what people are spotting and help guys that are capturing flags.
but on the flip side of this All ground troups can help kill air power if they have a decent pilot on there side.
like was said before the worst thing for a pilot is to have another jet on there ass.
if your a ground troup and there is an enemy jet around spot it that way your jets can know where they are and try to chase them down. or if your pilot is getting chased by a jet spot it so he can see that jets heading and try to get away.
but when it comes to people playing mobile AA i agree the missles are easy to get past but that cannon really pisses me off. there have been many times as a bomber i come in to an area to drop a load and start getting masshed with cannon fire. I will finish my run first but when i try to get out of there that aa cannon can follow for a long ways even past the point of not being able to see the jet. you just have to know how to lead the target better. anyhow when i finally get away i am usually way below half life and will try to heal a bit before another run.
jets also need to work with the ground troops or really be effective. yeah they get lots of kills but if they arn't actively helping the team and there just bombing for the points more often then not there team doesn't do as well. i have learned this cause i used to go for points but lost the round a lot. now i try to bomb what people are spotting and help guys that are capturing flags.
but on the flip side of this All ground troups can help kill air power if they have a decent pilot on there side.
like was said before the worst thing for a pilot is to have another jet on there ass.
if your a ground troup and there is an enemy jet around spot it that way your jets can know where they are and try to chase them down. or if your pilot is getting chased by a jet spot it so he can see that jets heading and try to get away.
Last edited by Duramen1 (2005-11-16 13:27:11)
AA is 40% skill 60% luck for mobile. It seems the bombers can see enemy vehicles at a greater distance then an AA can see a jet. By the time you swing your guns around to see the plane it's usually too late and you just hope he misses on is noobitized bombing run. (Personally I think those green little "Hold My Hand and Show me" boxes are crap....there is no more skill in bombing like in BF1942. At least there you HAD to Identify your own targets before making the run)
It's more frustraiting to have a SOLID LOCK on an enemy plane and fire your missles only to have them go wondering off and next thing you see is TEAM VEHICLE DAMAGE.....that is 100% BS IMO. If you have a Solid Lock your missles should follow that aircraft period.
The Essex's AA is the most frustrating to play. You should not need 8-16 Missles to take out 1 enemy plane!! and the gun overheats Way to quickly.
Just my opinion though....others say the essex's AA system is great....I think it's kinda weak
It's more frustraiting to have a SOLID LOCK on an enemy plane and fire your missles only to have them go wondering off and next thing you see is TEAM VEHICLE DAMAGE.....that is 100% BS IMO. If you have a Solid Lock your missles should follow that aircraft period.
The Essex's AA is the most frustrating to play. You should not need 8-16 Missles to take out 1 enemy plane!! and the gun overheats Way to quickly.
Just my opinion though....others say the essex's AA system is great....I think it's kinda weak
I allways shoot down my teammates with the AA guns, but i had sometimes a bit of luck on STinger and shot down a Chinese plane, but i also depents on how the pilot flies, this one just flew straight so it was most likely i shot him, but when he made a certain turn the missle missed.