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2005-11-15 19:52:31
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|6767|The United Center
Ok, I know there are numerous threads based on this subject, but I searched through the forums and couldn't find one on this: EA needs to remove the TK punish system completely.  Make it automatic.  If a person TKs five times in a round, ban them.  Then there's no one to lay blame on but yourself.

So I'm playing Karkand (big surprise there) and I am in the tank.  I drive it up the street toward the hotel, then stop when I see an APC...I take out the APC and turn to go up a different street.  What do I see?  ThomasMorgan[M1A2]Nub.  ThomasMorgan[Teamkills]Nub2

wtf?  All of a sudden, BAM, "You have been punished for a teamkill."  So I ask..."What?  TK?  How?  What happen?"  His answer?  "Oh, when i saw the APC I dove for cover and crawled under your tank, when you turned to go up the street you ran me over."  Oh, of course, you dove under my tank, where I can't see you and when I'm obviously focused on taking out the armor in front of me, then you punished me when I move?  Idiot.

Then I see that the suburb is being overrun, so like a good little grunt I work my way up the hill to the suburb.  There's a hummer there so I blow it up but the flag is still rising for the Americans.  I find someone else and machine gun him down, then I see some chooblet run for the TOW.  *BAM* M1A2 cannon to the face, taking out the TOW and chooblet with it.  What do I see?  "You have been punished for a teamkill."

wtf?  So again, I ask.  "What?  How did I TK you?"  His answer: "I was prone trying to knife the guy in the TOW."  Of course, prone, behind the enemy and the ground defense, trying to knife someone who was about to launch a missile of death right down my throat.  Again, I am punished for someone being an idiot.

I capture the suburb flag, get out and repair my tank, and by then a couple people have spawned there, thinking the flag was under attack.  One of them jumps in the gunner spot, which I'm fine with, and we're off.  Someone runs in front of my tank, so i stop...he then jumps on my tank.  I say Bail Out, he says Negative.  So I type to him "Hey man, get off the tank, i need to move." His reply: "Yeah I know, take me with you...I'll ride along on top."  Not having tried this before, I comply and we're off.  I get about ten feet and BAM ThomasMorgan[Teamkills]Nooblet.  "You have been punished for a teamkill."  ...and I'm kicked.

So now, I got punished three times for kills that, none of which were my fault whatsoever and I get booted out of a server that I'm always in and during the time I was leading both teams in terms of score.

So with that, to hell with the TK punish system.  It only makes me pissed off at the game, and even moreso some of the stupid people who play it.  They choose to punish, even when it's clearly not my fault.  If EA were to make it so there is no punish system in place, the game would be much, much better.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm seriously annoyed right now.
2005-11-15 19:57:21
Dr0pped
Member
+8|6775|Ontario, Canada
I totally understand your frustration! However, if it was made automatic, as you  suggest, then sensible people who don't punish for their own mistakes or the clearly non-intentional TKs would not have the opportunity to forgive the TK.  Just a thought.

Last edited by Dr0pped (2005-11-15 19:57:40)

2005-11-15 20:02:41
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|6767|The United Center

Dr0pped wrote:

I totally understand your frustration! However, if it was made automatic, as you  suggest, then sensible people who don't punish for their own mistakes or the clearly non-intentional TKs would not have the opportunity to forgive the TK.  Just a thought.
Thats why i raised the number to five.  The server I play on kicks you after 3 TK punishments...if you get kicked after five, either youre very, very careless or youre doing it intentionally.

...or youre playing with a server full of idiots and you shouldnt be playing there anyway.
2005-11-15 20:12:53
Rick_O_Shea678
Angry Engy
+95|6773
ThomasMorgan, under the system you propose in first paragraph, you were two more TKs away from a boot anyway, you suggest five TKs for a ban.  The way your "teammates" were playing, I'd lay money you wouldn't make it to the Train Accident before you got to five.

The whole system of "punish for TK" probably had sincere roots, in this mega-multiplayer game.  EA fixed a mistake with the 1.03 patch, where previously the default was to punish.  They need to go further, and fix the TK penalties for vehicles that crash and set up the driver for TK, (ie a plane crashes into mountain, and *dead* copilot is asked "do you want to forgive CharliePilot?")

Other than that, the TK punish option should stay, people should usually forgive, and players should not crawl under tanks when searching for cover!
2005-11-15 20:18:56
DeltaForceWarrior
Member
+1|6785
i think the guy that was trying to get the knife kill is an idiot for punishing you for something you couldn't see, but i think you are incorrect in calling him an idiot for trying to grab a quick knife kill from an unsuspecting enemy.

i only punish when i know that its intentional or if its a really stupid mistake (gotta teach some people a lesson sometimes)
2005-11-15 20:36:12
Galen1066
Member
+1|6780|Colo. Springs
I here what your saying for sure, I was in a game today and I was on the Kubra Dam map as an Engineer,  with a whack of NooB's or kids that could care less, either way I was TK'd a couple times and I looked to punish no-one for what could be "me in the wrong place" type situations, so I forgive them.  I go to repair the UAV/Sat trailers and find these 4-5 guys blowing up our team stuff, so I'm repairing it and not getting RP's since it was team damage and then I head over to the hangers and one guy walks up and TK's me I respawn right there and ask wtf, and he doesn't answer, just blows up the Heli. and runs off. I int. a kick vote and one of his buddies TK's him and he respawns comes over to me and TK's me again I punish him time, respawn, he comes running at me typing out that I shouldn't vote him off and I ask why all the TK's and he calls me a bich and TK's me, I punish and he's gone, then his friends start TKing me and I punish each one in turn and they finally leave but that type of play is assinine IMO.
What I think they (EA) should do is make an intenional TK a point loss of 10pt's for the first, 15 for the second and auto kick for the 3rd with a 30min. ban. But they might have to tweek the AI in the game engine to do this or leave it up to the players, I know most people can tell if it was done on purpose or not, but insure that it's not abusive, if it's a forced TK, then the person who forced the TK will get the same penalty as well. It might make a difference, but then again it probably won't.
2005-11-15 23:05:07
BladeRunner
Member
+5|6769|UK
Will I agree that if it was automatic, and you got punished no matter what, then it would stop it all be so 'personal'  and stuff, but it would make it too easy for a lamer and his mates to get you kicked and banned from any server they wanted....just throw themselves in your line of fire at every opportunity. Sounds reiculous? I know, but there ARE people out there who are THAT small minded....and you've met them
2005-11-16 06:00:18
elbowdeeplove
BWNED!!!
+0|6802|Texas
If I owned a server, I'd ban people for punishing for TKs.
2005-11-16 06:07:29
CMDR_Dave
Redneck
+66|6862|Missoula, MT
This thread makes me think of the song from "Wizard of Oz", "If I only had a brain". 
2005-11-16 07:08:56
BanzaiMatrix
Member
+0|6761|UK
I personally think a good idea for teamkillers is a 60 sec timeout if you do it 3x, yes we all do it by accident some times in the heat of the battle but some peeps are just total idiots. I had 1 idiot yesterday in Karkand across from the train accident, i was sitting in the TOW waiting to take out a tank that was due to come accross the bridge when this noob started taking pistol shots at me but not killing me fully. Well feck it i thought and jumped out to let this dick have the TOW as long as the dam tank got took out i was not bothered, he sat there while the tank came across and proceed to mow everyone down with guns and shells and he never took 1 shot. He got blew up we lost the flag and the round in the end. This guy had -14 at the end but was not kicked.
2005-11-16 07:22:41
ChiefCrash
Spawns in front of rockets and bullets
+4|6764
i think they should put in a system to mark you on the mini-map when you plant a AT mine or claymore.  maybe like a "MINE PLANTED" or "CLAYMORE HERE" and you blink on the mini-map.  then maybe, just maybe, you're team mate might figure out what the little red skull means...

and come to think of it, you should be able to spot enemy AT mines and claymores.  announce it on the team channel and have it show up on the mini-map until it's blown up, or at least a minute or two
2005-11-17 14:06:26
nating75
Member
+0|6797
EA should remove the punish system all together since it seems to cause so much turmoil. They should make team damage -1 and team kills another -1. So for every team kill you will receive -2 (-1 for the damage and -1 for the kill) and leave it be. Then leave the max TK limit up to the server.

Since people don't have enough integrity to say the TK was their fault this is the only fair thing to do. The current system only hurts those that rarely deliver a punish like myself and rewards those jackholes that get mad because they are forced to spawn again.
2005-11-17 16:48:30
RadeonII
Member
+1|6796
wrap your mindes around this punish story:

Today i was in a chopper with a good gunner we were a killing machine. next thing I know some limpdick jet pilot ( enemy ) rams us.. I got the kill but I also got a TK for my gunner.. THAT ASSHAT PUNISHED ME !!! WTF MAN
2005-11-17 16:55:59
Dr0pped
Member
+8|6775|Ontario, Canada

RadeonII wrote:

wrap your mindes around this punish story:

Today i was in a chopper with a good gunner we were a killing machine. next thing I know some limpdick jet pilot ( enemy ) rams us.. I got the kill but I also got a TK for my gunner.. THAT ASSHAT PUNISHED ME !!! WTF MAN
That  is unbelievable!  The guy must not have ever piloted and had that happen to him.... he must be Mr. Perfect....

What a piece of shit....
2005-11-17 18:18:31
Cronjob
Member
+1|6758|Broomfield, Colorado

BanzaiMatrix wrote:

This guy had -14 at the end but was not kicked.
Hell, I frequently see -150, -200 or even worse. Often several of each on both teams on a 64 player server. Nobody usually gives a damn. The TK Punish system could use some fine-tuning (I wouldn't get rid of it as it does serve a purpose at times) but it's the votekick stuff that really needs some work. As it is, people absue votekick because of their little spats so often that people just start to ignore it.

As an example of abuse, there was this guy (on the opposing team) who thought I was hacking because he shot at me a zillion times without killing me and I killed him in the end. He said I had some sort of a "lag hack". Of course, my ping was 30ms and his was 200ms. Duh.

But he was a whiney baby and did a votekick every two minutes and convinced his buddies to do the same. Very annoying. And the unfortunate part is that when you do a votekick, there's no way to include a blurb as to WHY you're proposing a votekick (or a mutiny for that matter).

I would suggest that you should be able to include a short reason with your initiative. For example, /votekick luser "for excessive TKing" or "TKing to steal vehicles". It should also include a brief hash of the user's score in the same line (automatically) so you can say "oh, maybe this person really should be kicked".

I also think it'd be cool to have some sort of POW system. Or court martial system. Something where a squad leader could raise awareness of a problem soldier on their own team to his commander and the commander could observe, respond, punish in some variety of ways. Maybe (with commander and squad leader approval), put some sort of in-game jail where they can sit and watch the game for three minutes, but not participate in the game.  I don't know - just a random idea.
2005-11-18 00:11:35
thinner44
Member
+1|6830

BanzaiMatrix wrote:

This guy had -14 at the end but was not kicked.
Ok, I think I've beaten the -14 . This guy has around the -175 mark, TKing everyone he sees. My own score reflects a pretty crappy round, but the -175, we couldn't kick him no matter what.

https://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5712/screen0250wo.png
2005-11-18 02:43:36
Cheating-Death
Member
+0|6812
on Exta we was playing OP Clean Sweep, i was US my mate was Mec anyway these clan guys was on mec and one of em was on are team he had a score of -477 at the end of the round and on Xtra u cant punish so u cant get kicked the Mec wont vote to kick him coz his helping him so gay wish i took a screene
2005-11-18 09:58:23
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6756|Salt Lake City

Unfortunately, there are too many tards in online game play, regardless of the game.  I'm fully capable of determing when something was my fault, accidental, or some one just being plane stupid.  I was heading to a flag in Karkand and one my tanks was there.  He was moving back and forth to he wasn't a sitting duck.  I tried to time my run in front of him so I didn't get hit, but I miscalculated and he got me.  That was purely my fault and no punish was issued.  I've been hit by an enemy vehicle while I was the driver of vehicle, and as such, I most certainly will not punish a driver/pilot when they get blown up by a kamakazie move from the other team.  I've been blown up by my own team's AT mines and whatever else.  I saw the skulls and thought I had room to squeeze through.  I didn't, and that was my miscalculation...NO PUNISH FOR AN AT DOING HIS JOB.  It's just part the game.  I did punish some idiot for throwing a grenade or using the grenade launcher while we were in a boat heading for shore on Clean Sweep.  Killed everyone onboard...that was just the type of stupidity that will get you a punish from me.

Now I will also admit that I have punished when I didn't mean too.  I was checking the map and changing classes when my I came up for respawn.  I noticed the TK message and because I was already in the middle of combat I accidentally punished when I didn't mean to.

But I whole heartedly agree that too many tards just punish automatically, never realizing that it was their fault.
2005-11-18 10:28:50
Jodah3
Member
+1|6759
Everyone makes too big of a deal about punishes.  They're not the end of the world, and TKs are going to happen.  If your playstyle is causing you to kill too many people maybe it's time to change your playstyle and account for stupidity.  I make it a habit to glance at the radar for blue spots before I throw grenades.  Little things like that help crack down on it.  I have over 50 hours played time and only 30 tk's, and except for air I've played nearly every class and every aspect of the game.

At the same time, I'm tired of seeing all these people that claim to be high and mighty and never punish people at all.  If I'm capping a base and a team jet bombs me, well guess what?  You're getting punished just for the inconvenience of me having to spawn again and run halfway across the map on foot.  You obviously didn't look at your radar and if did then you took the risk of dropping the bombs in the first place.  Live with it.

That's not to say I punish for everything.  Last night on Sharqi I was teamkilled three times.  Twice were because I snuck up behind a teammate to heal them and they turned around and fired before identifying.  Was that worthy of a punish?  Possibly.  But in both of those cases they spammed sorry and in one case the guy grabbed my kit and revived me.  So I forgave both.

In the third instance, I rounded a corner in front of dmged teammate to heal him and BAM, engineer shotgun to the face.  Was identical to the previous two instances, a teammate failing to identify before firing.  Except in this one the guy neither said sorry nor revived me.  Well guess what buddy?  I tried to heal you, you killed me without apology and now I have to respawn back across the map.  Enjoy your -4.
2005-11-18 10:36:43
[1stSSF]=Nuka=
Banned
+23|6770|PDX Metro Area, OR, US, SOL

CMDR_Dave wrote:

This thread makes me think of the song from "Wizard of Oz", "If I only had a brain". 
My all-time favorite punish came today...and I admit to making the same mistake in the past when I was a newer player...

We both bail out of a chopper that's about to 'splode...somehow I manage to land on top of him with my parachute. He dies, I get punished...lol

Funny thing was that I was still leading the team points and combat points, so it was merely amusing... I also had a situation where I blew up an APC and got punished...aparently someone was planting C4 or something? Who knows...I'm learning to follow B.Schuss advice...I just have begun ignoring punishes...
2005-11-19 02:06:54
RadeonII
Member
+1|6796
I still think a punish should cost you (x) amount of points.  This way some of these morons that punish without thinking about would think about it.
2005-11-19 02:59:40
-=Meshekal=-
Member
+2|6762|United Kingdom
I think EA need to work on the TK punish/forgive system...

I play Sniper often, and in my experience, laying a Claymore is a gauranteed TK waiting to happen. Always some stupid idiot jumps on, walk infront of it. Or even looks at it from behind, then walks over it. And they ALWAYS punish. Always. I've got over 50 tk's on my stats - 45 of those were accidental. I never TK on purpose (Well, except for those 5....but they deserved it...). And out of those 45 accidental TK's? I'd say about 40 punished. Some of them don't even know who TK'd them, or how.

The Red Skull And Bones Symbol Is Not A F---ing PowerUp!!!!!!! IF YOU SAW ONE ON SUPERMARIO YOU WOULDN'T JUMP ON IT!!! SO WHY ON THIS??!?!?!?!?!?!?! ARGH!

I hate being chased in a plane, losing control, and bailing out. Only to be punished for a TK...how? Oh yes...the plane crashed into someone... >.<  I don't fly anymore. Heat-seeking missiles that prefer to take down allied aircraft rather than the enemy jet i am locked on to...accidental Tk's through machine gun fire from the plane...now that's just bad luck that is...miles up in the sky, in a dog fight, trying to damage the foe with machine gun fire, and a stray bullet hits an ally somewhere on the map...

And no, i don't always punish. Even though the majority seem to be missing page up keys, i still forgive when it's an accident.

Like someone said above, if i get bombed while capping a flag, i'll punish. You should have checked your radar. If i'm in the plane that's doing the bombing...well, I would have checked the radar. Or if i saw more enemies than allies, i'd bomb - and cope with the tk's. I won't moan and bitch, it's my fault I killed you, because i dropped the bombs. If a medic runs around a corner to heal me, and accidently shoot him in the face thinking he's an enemy i'll apologise - I won't revive though, unless i'm also a medic - it bloody irritates me when someone picksup my kit, revives me, and i'm left with a crappy support weapon...but, on the other hand, I don't really want that death..

Sorry for the small rant...but these stupid punishes really REALLY tick me off...It just takes the fun away from a match when an idiot does something like this....

It's not that i mind the point loss - It's never enough to bother me, unless it's at the start of a match...It's that i get TK's on my profile here, and it's the lack of thought in it. It's the same with idiots who vote to Mutiny or Kick for no reason...and when it fails someone else starts the vote and they don't even know why for fucks sake!

Alright...i'll stop now...i feel i could go on longer, but i'll spare ya :p

PS: The only way i could see to stop most punishes is for that everytime some one on your team is punished for a team kill, the enemy gain a ticket. Or your team lose one. But then...you'll get those immature idiotic maleovent children who must have mental problems - you know, the ones who are there purely to make you lose, or team kill, or otherwise be 'tards.

Last edited by -=Meshekal=- (2005-11-19 03:15:06)

2005-11-19 03:05:00
Flasheart88
Member
+0|6780|Brisbane

RadeonII wrote:

wrap your mindes around this punish story:

Today i was in a chopper with a good gunner we were a killing machine. next thing I know some limpdick jet pilot ( enemy ) rams us.. I got the kill but I also got a TK for my gunner.. THAT ASSHAT PUNISHED ME !!! WTF MAN
Dude, I feel your pain.

But how about this: I'm playing on Wake Island, and I spawn on the south tip as PLA, and jump in the tank and potter down the spit to the AA gun, and wait for invaders.

BOOM: I've teamkilled someone. Huh? I don't understand at first, and I swing my gun around and see the wreckage of a jeep behind me - he'd run into me and then punished. Okay, I shrug my shoulders and roll over to the stinger emplacement and get out of the tank, and start shooting missiles at US aircraft.

BOOM: I've teamkilled the same guy when he runs into my UNOCCUPIED tank!  Naturally I'm punished. Somewhat disgruntled, I start a vote and a rant over the chat, and find much simpathy, but no success with the vote. About five minutes later ... I'm punished once more by this idiot when he does the EXACT SAME THING AGAIN. Incredible. He did this to me and one other all game, never got kicked or banned because of course, as far as the game was concerned he was the victim.

System sucks.
2005-11-19 03:24:07
-=pM|B1zzY=-
Member
+0|6849|Germany
the problem is: when u set up mines as engineer and someone of your team drives over it and there are 5 people sitting in that vehicle u get banned....

thats why i dont like ur system sry!

there are enough stupid players who dont see the mines... hat ´em !!!
2005-11-19 03:41:11
RadeonII
Member
+1|6796
Flasheart88 :

  I forget the name of the map but some teammate was setting claymores at a spawn point...  lol I got killed 3 times before I punished him and picked a new spawn point. after every TK he asked me why I was walking into his claymore????  DOH!!!!  not saying thats what youre doing but it gave me a flashback when i was reading your post  lol

 

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