I believe that we would still be here however if you read the Old Testament you will find that they needed to sacrifice clean animals and other things to get to heaven. We all still sin however we now have redemption from that sin. With Jesus shed blood.tehmoogles wrote:
But if Jesus hadn't died, then there would be no Christianity. Now, let's say that Jesus really did live, die etc. Just hypothetically. If he did not do this, we would still be here today. How can one die to save humanity, when humanity carries on as normal after your death? What did he save us from? Sin? There's still 'sin' today.
Poll
Are you a Christian?
| I would like to be | 50% | 50% - 157 | 50% | 50% - 157 | ||
| I don't want anything to do with that! | 55% | 55% - 174 | 44% | 44% - 140 | ||
| Total: 314 | ||||||
MOG according to deuteronomy I can rape a woman as long as she's a virgin and unbetrothed. All I need to do is pay her dad 50 shekels for the inconvenience afterwards!!! What do you make of that?MOG Disciple wrote:
I believe that we would still be here however if you read the Old Testament you will find that they needed to sacrifice clean animals and other things to get to heaven. We all still sin however we now have redemption from that sin. With Jesus shed blood.tehmoogles wrote:
But if Jesus hadn't died, then there would be no Christianity. Now, let's say that Jesus really did live, die etc. Just hypothetically. If he did not do this, we would still be here today. How can one die to save humanity, when humanity carries on as normal after your death? What did he save us from? Sin? There's still 'sin' today.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-05 12:52:07)
Yes I do not believe that the Bible is not open to interpretation the Bible is the true word of God.CameronPoe wrote:
I really could go on FOREVER with quotes (I have read large portions of the bible) but I'll only post a few bible quotes here....
Dueteronomy 21:10 - 21:14 - When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
Deuteronomy 22:20-22:21 - If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Dueteronomy 22:23-22:24 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:28-22:29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
A book filled with wisdom and love I'm sure you'll agree!!!!! And it's fairly literal in those quotes - I don't think the above is particularly metaphorical or open to interpretation!!! LOL
Bible stands for,
B: basic
I: instruction
B: before
L: leaving
E: earth
Just kidding, LOL but it fits.
So you're telling me you agree with that tripe I just posted? Would you stone a rape victim to death for not screaming?MOG Disciple wrote:
Yes I do not believe that the Bible is not open to interpretation the Bible is the true word of God.CameronPoe wrote:
I really could go on FOREVER with quotes (I have read large portions of the bible) but I'll only post a few bible quotes here....
Dueteronomy 21:10 - 21:14 - When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
Deuteronomy 22:20-22:21 - If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Dueteronomy 22:23-22:24 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:28-22:29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
A book filled with wisdom and love I'm sure you'll agree!!!!! And it's fairly literal in those quotes - I don't think the above is particularly metaphorical or open to interpretation!!! LOL
Bible stands for,
B: basic
I: instruction
B: before
L: leaving
E: earth
Just kidding, LOL but it fits.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;CameronPoe wrote:
MOG according to deuteronomy I can rape a woman as long as she's a virgin and unbetrothed. All I need to do is pay her dad 50 shekels for the inconvenience afterwards!!! What do you make of that?MOG Disciple wrote:
I believe that we would still be here however if you read the Old Testament you will find that they needed to sacrifice clean animals and other things to get to heaven. We all still sin however we now have redemption from that sin. With Jesus shed blood.tehmoogles wrote:
But if Jesus hadn't died, then there would be no Christianity. Now, let's say that Jesus really did live, die etc. Just hypothetically. If he did not do this, we would still be here today. How can one die to save humanity, when humanity carries on as normal after your death? What did he save us from? Sin? There's still 'sin' today.
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Where dose it say she was raped this was consensual sex.
You obviously have been reading an edited version. My quotes come from the international version.MOG Disciple wrote:
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;CameronPoe wrote:
MOG according to deuteronomy I can rape a woman as long as she's a virgin and unbetrothed. All I need to do is pay her dad 50 shekels for the inconvenience afterwards!!! What do you make of that?MOG Disciple wrote:
I believe that we would still be here however if you read the Old Testament you will find that they needed to sacrifice clean animals and other things to get to heaven. We all still sin however we now have redemption from that sin. With Jesus shed blood.
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Where dose it say she was raped this was consensual sex.
hey if it works for you, go with it, as for myself, my family has deep religious roots, my mom used to have a pastor's license, teaches sunday school, sings in prison ministries and such, I was raised in churches and am fairly well versed in biblical history and theory, not necessarily memorizing bible verses, but over the past few years I've noticed that the more my family goes with the Goc thing, the less they have to show for it, and I'm tired of the "patience of Job" crap my friends keep bringing up, so I just decided that if God could forget my famliy (there is not enough space on the server to list the shit we've been through over the past few years) then the least I could do was return the favor, and to be honest I've never been better off, I just wish my parents would quit wasting their efforts giving so much time and money to the church when they could use it to provide for themselves, I'm not going to insult anyone else for being religious christian or otherwise, but it's just not for me
The fact that there are multiple versions of the bible support that the bible is NOT the true word of God. It is impossible. Christianity confirms it in their own dogma. God is infallible. Man is flawed. The Bible, though at best inspired by the word of God, was penned by man. Therefore, it HAS to be flawed as humanity intervened. This is to say nothing of the interpretation it has endured for over 2 millenia, the personal agendas of those penning it in the first place, or the personal agendas of those retelling the stories. To remove any deliberate malice from the equasion, have you played a game of "Telephone"? The intent of God survives in the document we call the Bible.
I'm okay either way. Heaven won't have me, and Hell's afraid I'll take over.
I believe in God but I don't believe in Islam and jihad-vodniks. Does that make me a Christian???
That is sadAgent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I'm okay either way. Heaven won't have me, and Hell's afraid I'll take over.
I use the KJV that seems to be the truest version out there.CameronPoe wrote:
You obviously have been reading an edited version. My quotes come from the international version.MOG Disciple wrote:
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;CameronPoe wrote:
MOG according to deuteronomy I can rape a woman as long as she's a virgin and unbetrothed. All I need to do is pay her dad 50 shekels for the inconvenience afterwards!!! What do you make of that?
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Where dose it say she was raped this was consensual sex.
Only for you.MOG Disciple wrote:
That is sadAgent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I'm okay either way. Heaven won't have me, and Hell's afraid I'll take over.
By whose account? Let me ask you this, do you believe that there was a prophecy of a virgin birth?MOG Disciple wrote:
I use the KJV that seems to be the truest version out there.CameronPoe wrote:
You obviously have been reading an edited version. My quotes come from the international version.MOG Disciple wrote:
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Where dose it say she was raped this was consensual sex.
If you translate it to the original language(hebrew) the word is yom not day. And yom couldve ment a time period and not 24 hours. And parts of the bible in hebrew show that things took a lot of time to create. Young earth creationists think that the earth was created in 7 24 hour days and they have a genealogy from adam to i think noah, so thats where they get the age of the earth.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Yes, but God supposedly made everything in 7 days, and that is where the young Earth followers get their age of the Earth to be ~7K years old. It does not, however, account for billions of years.MOG Disciple wrote:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.bEAv3D wrote:
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-07-05 13:26:31)
So now your singing a different tune? In the last go around on this subject you vehemntly fought for the young Earth theory that the Earth in 6-7K years old, maybe 10K tops. Now you're backtracking on that. Make up you mind, which is it?JaMDuDe wrote:
If you translate it to the original language(hebrew) the word is yom not day. And yom couldve ment a time period and not 24 hours. And parts of the bible in hebrew show that things took a lot of time to create.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Yes, but God supposedly made everything in 7 days, and that is where the young Earth followers get their age of the Earth to be ~7K years old. It does not, however, account for billions of years.MOG Disciple wrote:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
That was months ago. I havent really studied the age of the earth until a few months ago. Old-earth is more reasonable cause the best young earth creationists have to say is that God made the universe look old or its a test of faith.
Again she was not raped it was consensualCameronPoe wrote:
So you're telling me you agree with that tripe I just posted? Would you stone a rape victim to death for not screaming?MOG Disciple wrote:
Yes I do not believe that the Bible is not open to interpretation the Bible is the true word of God.CameronPoe wrote:
I really could go on FOREVER with quotes (I have read large portions of the bible) but I'll only post a few bible quotes here....
Deuteronomy 21:10 - 21:14 - When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
Deuteronomy 22:20-22:21 - If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:23-22:24 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:28-22:29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
A book filled with wisdom and love I'm sure you'll agree!!!!! And it's fairly literal in those quotes - I don't think the above is particularly metaphorical or open to interpretation!!! LOL
Bible stands for,
B: basic
I: instruction
B: before
L: leaving
E: earth
Just kidding, LOL but it fits.
This is the Contemporary English Version:
Deu 22:23 If a man is caught in town having sex with an engaged woman who isn't screaming for help, they both must be put to death. The man is guilty of having sex with a married woman. And the woman is guilty because she didn't call for help, even though she was inside a town and people were nearby. Take them both to the town gate and stone them to death. You must get rid of the evil they brought into your community.
Deu 22:24 (SEE 22:23)
Deu 22:25 If an engaged woman is raped out in the country, only the man will be put to death.
Deu 22:26 Do not punish the woman at all; she has done nothing wrong, and certainly nothing deserving death. This crime is like murder,
Deu 22:27 because the woman was alone out in the country when the man attacked her. She screamed, but there was no one to help her.
Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,
Deu 22:29 they will be forced to get married. He must give her father fifty pieces of silver as a bride-price and can never divorce her.
This is The King James Version:
Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deu 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
They talk about more then one scenario. She didn't cry because she was having an affair.
I don't see where this is going...are we seriously going to prove each other wrong? Or lets just say the aetheists against the christians (me being an aetheist who can be persuaded on some points )
Does anyone here seriously think he can win this discussion?
Does anyone here seriously think he can win this discussion?
Then I would be willing to venture that 99.9% of the people in this country would also be killed for badmouthing their parents...which the Bible also says is the punishment for doing so.MOG Disciple wrote:
Again she was not raped it was consensualCameronPoe wrote:
So you're telling me you agree with that tripe I just posted? Would you stone a rape victim to death for not screaming?MOG Disciple wrote:
Yes I do not believe that the Bible is not open to interpretation the Bible is the true word of God.
Bible stands for,
B: basic
I: instruction
B: before
L: leaving
E: earth
Just kidding, LOL but it fits.
This is the Contemporary English Version:
Deu 22:23 If a man is caught in town having sex with an engaged woman who isn't screaming for help, they both must be put to death. The man is guilty of having sex with a married woman. And the woman is guilty because she didn't call for help, even though she was inside a town and people were nearby. Take them both to the town gate and stone them to death. You must get rid of the evil they brought into your community.
Deu 22:24 (SEE 22:23)
Deu 22:25 If an engaged woman is raped out in the country, only the man will be put to death.
Deu 22:26 Do not punish the woman at all; she has done nothing wrong, and certainly nothing deserving death. This crime is like murder,
Deu 22:27 because the woman was alone out in the country when the man attacked her. She screamed, but there was no one to help her.
Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,
Deu 22:29 they will be forced to get married. He must give her father fifty pieces of silver as a bride-price and can never divorce her.
This is The King James Version:
Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deu 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
They talk about more then one scenario. She didn't cry because she was having an affair.
I believe what I believe, and I guess you believe what you believe. In the end who losses out?Konfusion0 wrote:
I don't see where this is going...are we seriously going to prove each other wrong? Or lets just say the aetheists against the christians (me being an aetheist who can be persuaded on some points )
Does anyone here seriously think he can win this discussion?
If I was wrong and there was no God I still am dead and kicking it back with you somewhere maybe playing battlefield 3020.
If I am right I will be in heaven with the Creator, mourning your death and torment that you will suffer in hell forevermore. I do not want this to be your fate.
You guys are taking a few paragraphs from the entire bible, that were directions to people thousands of years ago, and saying they dont fit todays standards. Jesus cleared up or said not to do some of the things the old testament says is acceptable.
Yep I agree that would be there fate. The world would be a much different place if we folowed the Bible.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Then I would be willing to venture that 99.9% of the people in this country would also be killed for badmouthing their parents...which the Bible also says is the punishment for doing so.MOG Disciple wrote:
Again she was not raped it was consensualCameronPoe wrote:
So you're telling me you agree with that tripe I just posted? Would you stone a rape victim to death for not screaming?
This is the Contemporary English Version:
Deu 22:23 If a man is caught in town having sex with an engaged woman who isn't screaming for help, they both must be put to death. The man is guilty of having sex with a married woman. And the woman is guilty because she didn't call for help, even though she was inside a town and people were nearby. Take them both to the town gate and stone them to death. You must get rid of the evil they brought into your community.
Deu 22:24 (SEE 22:23)
Deu 22:25 If an engaged woman is raped out in the country, only the man will be put to death.
Deu 22:26 Do not punish the woman at all; she has done nothing wrong, and certainly nothing deserving death. This crime is like murder,
Deu 22:27 because the woman was alone out in the country when the man attacked her. She screamed, but there was no one to help her.
Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,
Deu 22:29 they will be forced to get married. He must give her father fifty pieces of silver as a bride-price and can never divorce her.
This is The King James Version:
Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deu 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
They talk about more then one scenario. She didn't cry because she was having an affair.
I believe a much better world.
John 10:12 - And Jesus spake saying that the children of God should ignore some of the cheesier bits of the old testament.JaMDuDe wrote:
You guys are taking a few paragraphs from the entire bible, that were directions to people thousands of years ago, and saying they dont fit todays standards. Jesus cleared up or said not to do some of the things the old testament says is acceptable.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-05 14:09:39)
No doubt about that...there wouldn't be any humans left alive.MOG Disciple wrote:
Yep I agree that would be there fate. The world would be a much different place if we folowed the Bible.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Then I would be willing to venture that 99.9% of the people in this country would also be killed for badmouthing their parents...which the Bible also says is the punishment for doing so.MOG Disciple wrote:
Again she was not raped it was consensual
This is the Contemporary English Version:
Deu 22:23 If a man is caught in town having sex with an engaged woman who isn't screaming for help, they both must be put to death. The man is guilty of having sex with a married woman. And the woman is guilty because she didn't call for help, even though she was inside a town and people were nearby. Take them both to the town gate and stone them to death. You must get rid of the evil they brought into your community.
Deu 22:24 (SEE 22:23)
Deu 22:25 If an engaged woman is raped out in the country, only the man will be put to death.
Deu 22:26 Do not punish the woman at all; she has done nothing wrong, and certainly nothing deserving death. This crime is like murder,
Deu 22:27 because the woman was alone out in the country when the man attacked her. She screamed, but there was no one to help her.
Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,
Deu 22:29 they will be forced to get married. He must give her father fifty pieces of silver as a bride-price and can never divorce her.
This is The King James Version:
Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
Deu 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
Deu 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
They talk about more then one scenario. She didn't cry because she was having an affair.
I believe a much better world.