Also, there have been many mistranslations over time, and it is possible that it doesn't say "walked on the water" but "walked beside the water". Things like that steadily increase my doubt of the truth of the bible. Also, yes, he was a "king of jews" who was crucified. History books say nothing more. No "dying to save humanity", that is.MOG Disciple wrote:
Jesus died on the cross so that we may live. He was sinless and we are sinners. I still sin from time to time however I am a sinner saved by grace. I don't think that it is relay about is Jesus real, because He did relay live on earth. Go to the history books, NOT OUR SCHOOL BOOKS but real history and you will find that Jesus lived and then died on a cross. Hate to tell you but the Bible is a history book!
Poll
Are you a Christian?
| I would like to be | 50% | 50% - 157 | 50% | 50% - 157 | ||
| I don't want anything to do with that! | 55% | 55% - 174 | 44% | 44% - 140 | ||
| Total: 314 | ||||||
Do all history books tell all. I have faith that Jesus did what is written in the Bible. I have felt His presence in my life and I pray that Jesus will show Himself to you, then you will have no doubt that Jesus is real and everything I say is true.
Do you have doubt that wind is real? Can't see it but you know it is there because you feel it, you see its power. In the same way I believe that the Bible is the true word of God, and that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
Do you have doubt that wind is real? Can't see it but you know it is there because you feel it, you see its power. In the same way I believe that the Bible is the true word of God, and that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
there are scientific (perfectly plausible, not leaving any spaces) explanations on most things... Some things remain a mystery, and are yet to be found out. Until I get some sort of proof or personal experience with (doing this for you) Him, I will not believe the bible.MOG Disciple wrote:
Do all history books tell all. I have faith that Jesus did what is written in the Bible. I have felt His presence in my life and I pray that Jesus will show Himself to you, then you will have no doubt that Jesus is real and everything I say is true.
Do you have doubt that wind is real? Can't see it but you know it is there because you feel it, you see its power. In the same way I believe that the Bible is the true word of God, and that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
I thought I felt Jesus once, then I realized that I just had heartburn, gas, and diarrhea.MOG Disciple wrote:
Do all history books tell all. I have faith that Jesus did what is written in the Bible. I have felt His presence in my life and I pray that Jesus will show Himself to you, then you will have no doubt that Jesus is real and everything I say is true.
Do you have doubt that wind is real? Can't see it but you know it is there because you feel it, you see its power. In the same way I believe that the Bible is the true word of God, and that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
Can't God and science work together? Dose everything that God creates be supernatural and unexplained? Maybe he created it and His Science explains it, we just are not smart enough yet to know it all.
There is some deep thought.
I still am praying that God will reveal Himself to you. Why don't you ask Him? " If you are the one true God show yourself to me." It may take time but He will show Himself to you.
There is some deep thought.
I still am praying that God will reveal Himself to you. Why don't you ask Him? " If you are the one true God show yourself to me." It may take time but He will show Himself to you.
Science makes it pretty obvious that we didnt happen by accident. Its just that atheists want to find God through science instead of the book He gave us.
CORRECTION: Atheists are not looking to find god. I don't know where you got such a ridiculous idea from.JaMDuDe wrote:
Science makes it pretty obvious that we didnt happen by accident. Its just that atheists want to find God through science instead of the book He gave us.
By the way when did 'he' give us this book? Did 'he' just DHL it over to us from 'the ether'?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-05 11:02:18)
It doesn't work that way. Religious dogma would not allow any part of the Bible to be proved incorrect, because then many parts of the Bible could be questioned. Science and religion already clash on many fronts. Genesis is a big one. Science would seem to indicate that the Earth is billions of years old, while the Bible simply cannot play out in this time span; the young Earth, Genesis believers, are saying the Earth is only 6-7K years old, maybe 10K tops. We know that some stars are so far away that it would take millions of years for the light to reach Earth, yet this isn't possible with a young Earth theory, so religion simply makes a lame excuse that God made the stream of light already here when he created the universe; a supernatural explanation.MOG Disciple wrote:
Can't God and science work together? Dose everything that God creates be supernatural and unexplained? Maybe he created it and His Science explains it, we just are not smart enough yet to know it all.
There is some deep thought.
I still am praying that God will reveal Himself to you. Why don't you ask Him? " If you are the one true God show yourself to me." It may take time but He will show Himself to you.
The flood and Noah are another example. The Bible clearly indicates that the entire world was covered by the flood, and there may very well have been a massive flood in that area, it most certainly did not cover the entire Earth. The young Earth crowd would also have you believe, using train cars as a means of measurement, that the ark was large enough to carry two of every species on the planet, including dinosaurs, as well as enough food to support them for that period of time. However, you have problems such as what would happen to the fish. Fresh water fish can live in salt water, and vice versa. It also doesn't account for why all of the dinosaur remains we find are all fossilized, which takes millions of years, not thousands of years. Not to mention the the fact that we now have enough of an understanding of genetics to know that you cannot make a viable species from only two sources of DNA. The inbreeding would have deteriorated to the point that everything on that ark would have died.
This is why science and religion do not co-exist well together. You are a good example of this as well. You previously stated that the Bible is a history book. However, the writings that comprise the Bible are only a small portion of the actual writings. The writings were written by about 200 different people, and almost all of them well after Jesus died. The Bible has also been translated many times, and it is known that some of it was misinterpreted. Like you, those of religion want the Bible taught as absolute fact, never willing to waver on its accuracy, because you know that in order for religion to continue to hold the power it has now, the Bible cannot be allowed to be shown that it has inaccuracies, regardless of how they got there. Instead of reading between the lines to try and understand the message, you read it verbatim and take it as absolute truth, no questions asked.
Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-07-05 11:03:43)
The Bible was written by men who were inspired by what God told them to write.CameronPoe wrote:
CORRECTION: Atheists are not looking to find god. I don't know where you got such a ridiculous idea from.JaMDuDe wrote:
Science makes it pretty obvious that we didn't happen by accident. Its just that atheists want to find God through science instead of the book He gave us.
By the way when did 'he' give us this book? Did 'he' just DHL it over to us from 'the ether'?
I agree that atheists are not looking for God. I'm not sure what they are looking for? If you know, let me know I would like to know. "WOW that is a lot of knows"
I can't speak for all atheists but what I can say is that I'm not looking for anything in particular other than comfort and happiness while I'm alive. I have issues with the 'god told them to write'. Did he get them on their cellphones?MOG Disciple wrote:
The Bible was written by men who were inspired by what God told them to write.CameronPoe wrote:
CORRECTION: Atheists are not looking to find god. I don't know where you got such a ridiculous idea from.JaMDuDe wrote:
Science makes it pretty obvious that we didn't happen by accident. Its just that atheists want to find God through science instead of the book He gave us.
By the way when did 'he' give us this book? Did 'he' just DHL it over to us from 'the ether'?
I agree that atheists are not looking for God. I'm not sure what they are looking for? If you know, let me know I would like to know. "WOW that is a lot of knows"
I want you to prove the science of the earth is millions of years old as fact. As for all else I believe God is true and all things are possible with God the creator of the universe.
The Bible has been translated many times but there are translations that have stood the test of time.
The Bible has been translated many times but there are translations that have stood the test of time.
Atheists tend to look towards living their lives to the fullest, while not worrying about whether they'll go Up or Down in a supposed afterlife.
I think dinosaur fossils and other archaeological finds attest to the fact that the earth is slightly more than the 6000 or 7000 years the bible states.....LOLMOG Disciple wrote:
I want you to prove the science of the earth is millions of years old as fact. As for all else I believe God is true and all things are possible with God the creator of the universe.
The Bible has been translated many times but there are translations that have stood the test of time.
Maybe:) LOL That is funny;)CameronPoe wrote:
I can't speak for all atheists but what I can say is that I'm not looking for anything in particular other than comfort and happiness while I'm alive. I have issues with the 'god told them to write'. Did he get them on their cellphones?MOG Disciple wrote:
The Bible was written by men who were inspired by what God told them to write.CameronPoe wrote:
CORRECTION: Atheists are not looking to find god. I don't know where you got such a ridiculous idea from.
By the way when did 'he' give us this book? Did 'he' just DHL it over to us from 'the ether'?
I agree that atheists are not looking for God. I'm not sure what they are looking for? If you know, let me know I would like to know. "WOW that is a lot of knows"
I truly believe just as your conciseness talks to you this is the same way God talks to you, possibly that is God talking to you. We just call it something else to talk ourselves out of believing in God.
Sad isn't it that if there is a God do you relay think He will let you in if you never believed in Him. All you did all your life is mocked Him and made fun of Him and what His only Son did for you. Would you if you were god would you let someone that did that to you.Marconius wrote:
Atheists tend to look towards living their lives to the fullest, while not worrying about whether they'll go Up or Down in a supposed afterlife.
Thank God that He will, and all you need to do is ask for forgiveness and He will forgive all your sins. He did mine.
Once your dead it is to late to decide if there is a God or not.
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
Not really, MOG...you need to understand that Atheists don't find that sad at all. And as the bible states in the first place, "god" made man in "his" image, and therefore instilled the essence of free will/the ability to NOT believe in him into us. Punishing us for his own work upon dying is rather odd, no?
Then again, christians aren't really supposed to look at the OT, since the whole basis of their faith is the NT and the teachings of Jesus. And, seriously, just because you are considering yourself faithful you believe you can really tell me what god himself would think? Are you positioning yourself into a "holier-than-thou" attitude for your own sake?
Then again, christians aren't really supposed to look at the OT, since the whole basis of their faith is the NT and the teachings of Jesus. And, seriously, just because you are considering yourself faithful you believe you can really tell me what god himself would think? Are you positioning yourself into a "holier-than-thou" attitude for your own sake?
I really could go on FOREVER with quotes (I have read large portions of the bible) but I'll only post a few bible quotes here....
Dueteronomy 21:10 - 21:14 - When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
Deuteronomy 22:20-22:21 - If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Dueteronomy 22:23-22:24 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:28-22:29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
A book filled with wisdom and love I'm sure you'll agree!!!!! And it's fairly literal in those quotes - I don't think the above is particularly metaphorical or open to interpretation!!! LOL
Dueteronomy 21:10 - 21:14 - When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
Deuteronomy 22:20-22:21 - If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Dueteronomy 22:23-22:24 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:28-22:29 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
A book filled with wisdom and love I'm sure you'll agree!!!!! And it's fairly literal in those quotes - I don't think the above is particularly metaphorical or open to interpretation!!! LOL
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-05 11:59:20)
But if Jesus hadn't died, then there would be no Christianity. Now, let's say that Jesus really did live, die etc. Just hypothetically. If he did not do this, we would still be here today. How can one die to save humanity, when humanity carries on as normal after your death? What did he save us from? Sin? There's still 'sin' today.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.bEAv3D wrote:
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
MOG are you gonna address some of the issues raised in my quote-post?MOG Disciple wrote:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.bEAv3D wrote:
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
Roger that.MOG Disciple wrote:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.bEAv3D wrote:
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
Yes, but God supposedly made everything in 7 days, and that is where the young Earth followers get their age of the Earth to be ~7K years old. It does not, however, account for billions of years.MOG Disciple wrote:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.bEAv3D wrote:
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
As the great Ricky Gervais pointed out 'god' also managed to create the earth in the dark. He invented light afterwards....LOLAgent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Yes, but God supposedly made everything in 7 days, and that is where the young Earth followers get their age of the Earth to be ~7K years old. It does not, however, account for billions of years.MOG Disciple wrote:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.bEAv3D wrote:
I just wanted to toss this question out there. Could it be possible that in the writings of the Bible, there are some things that are not meant to be taken in such a literal sense? Such as the conflict of time. Could it be that creation, as stated in the Bible, could be a description of evolution? Let's just pretend that each of the seven days, was in fact millions of years. Breaking it down into days, could possibly be easier for minds to grasp when the book of Genesis was written. I don't know if millions, or billions, were in the people's realm of comprehension back then. If this is true, then we could easily say that the billions of years that science (carbon dating) states is fact and the 7,000 or so years that the Bible covers could be the same amount of time. I'm just throwing that out there.
Actually, God supposedly made everything in 6 days. The seventh was a day of rest aka the sabath as we are "supposed" to observe as well. Genesis of Blue Laws in the states.
Last edited by puckmercury (2006-07-05 12:48:13)