BF2S Forums Guantanamo Illegal.

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I agree these people need some means of trial, but a trial with Lawyers? How do these prisoners Prove they wernt Shooting at our soldiers?  What were they doing? Hunting squirrels?

If you're looking for an example of how to hold a trial, try looking at France.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5139622.stm  On Monday, they started a trial against six of their citizens who had been held at Guantanamo.  Note that a seventh Frenchman, who was also held at Gitmo, has been released without charge because he had done nothing wrong.

When the four Britons held at Guantanamo were released to British custody http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4163911.stm, they were released without charge after just 24 hours, because they had no crimes to answer for.  Yet, they were still held at Gitmo and tortured, according to claims. 

How many more innocent people are still being held in Gitmo because their own governments aren't as influential as France or the UK?

One of the Britons was picked up in Zambia.  Tell me again how everyone in Gitmo was arrested in Afghanistan after attacking US troops?

As you said, according to claims, where are the claims? They sure didnt make the complaints to the Human rights groups camped outside the camp.  But you did answer your own question, people ARE being let out, but do you really think if they are given back to the terrorist countries they are from, that they would be prosecuted? Thats just not feasible.

The last I heard, this was last year - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4240107.stm - the person who made the claims was seeking High Court approval to sue the British Secret Service for their collusion.  As I recall from the case of these four people, they never had access to the Red Cross.  Sure, they may be just outside the camp but that's not very accessible for people held inside the camp, is it?  How are they supposed to complain - tell the guards they want to talk to the people outside?

IMO, the US should either charge or repatriate the people still held there.  Trials can be held, as shown in more enlightened countries, and you don't have to resort to kangaroo courts (military tribunals) to do this. 

How would you like a US citizen to be treated abroad, say in Afghanistan or Iraq?  Would you be happy for them to be held incommunicado for upwards of four years, tortured and then put before a court where they had no access to lawyers or even an interpreter, facing possible execution?   Wouldn't you be a little upset if that happened?  If so, why should the US be able to do exactly that?

As for answering my own question, I didn't.

This unquestioning sheep syndrome that seams to be spreading across the "free world" is worrying.
It is ok to say your government is doing something wrong and illegal you know. Men in black are not going to storm through the window of your bedroom as you hit submit on these forums.

Many nations, independent organization and even the US supreme court, the makers and enforcers of law say its illegal, but still the sheep follow BUSH. Because Bush's propaganda machine tells you it unpatriotic to question your president. Well IMO, by the same rule its even more unpatriotic to question the Supreme court, more than one man....

Ikarti wrote:

Horseman's pastimes include licking walls and counting to 10. Sometimes when he's feeling really wild, he'll try to recite the alphabet backwards!

my canned response when the short bus makes an unshedualed drop off near my home..
               
                        see below

  Little hints and tidbits from a small boy typing away on his mommy's computer.

casting about learned statements like this...

Bubbalo wrote:

The point was that the US could strike the USSR with nukes, the USSR could not strike the US.

" bubbalo doesn't have ulcers, but he's a carrier."

Ikarti wrote:

I think .50 cal should be ok as long as its only used on US troops.

" ikarti has been working with glue too much."

The sad part is,that really isn't their best quotes. Flush twice and light a match when you stumble across one !

Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-07-05 08:00:49)

Colfax wrote:

They are trying to give rights to terrorists who belong to no country,  observe no laws, and kill with no mercy.

Why should the rights of our country be extended to them.   Why does anyone have compassion for these people because if they were free they'd just strap a bomb on themselves and go blow up some innocent people in the NAME OF ALLAH.  Fuck them

_____________________________

my opinion if you like +1 me and i will you.....if you don't comment on why you don't like it don't -1 me

The point is that until they've been tried correctly (according to US law) they are not terrorists, killers or anything else you'd like to call them. Imagine you were picked up off the street in Pakistan for example, stuck in a jail with no reason given for your arrest, subject to inhumane conditions for years and deprived of basic human needs. Just think about that for a second....you'd be fucking pissed no?

If they're so 'guilty' why not put them on trial. Surely the US government must have shitloads of evidence to be able to justify keeping them there but unfortunately for the prisoners this is unlikely to be the case.

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

So, you deserve more rights because you have a piece of paper?  Oh, praise the lord, the saviour has arrived!  And lo: He bears PAPER!

You dont fucking get it do you? These prisoners WANT the same rights as US citizens. They want Private US citizens rights to due process. There frigging terrorists. They are combatants and were bearing arms against us with intent to KILL us. They are from every country in the world, thus they belong to no specific army, so the Geneva convention should not apply. You consider yourself a man of logic, wheres the logic in your thinking on this topic? did it fly out the window? I mean come on now, your hatred for americans is so evident, yet most here dont have a blind hate for Aussie's. You judge ALL americans at face value because of what? tourists? Thats shallow and sad. I honestly feel bad for you for not being able to see outside the little world you have created for yourself based on a few americans you might have met.

Who decided they were terrorists?? And who decided they were bearing arms? And who decided what their intent was? And who decided what army they belong to? And even if they belong to no army at all does that make them less than human? And the only reason they want Private US citizen rights and not Norwegian rights is because they are captives of the United States of America. Tell me Judge Headstone, have you any idea what is stated in the Geneva Convention and how many times your country has violated it? How would you feel if YOU were in their position? Do not forget that it was the US who invaded their country and they are mere defenders of their land. I bet none of the prisoners in Guantanamo or any of the other concentration camps your country keeps had anything to do with the terrorist attacks against the US. But then again we should let a decent unbiased court judge that.

BTW always bear in mind that no one in this forum ever attacked the american people. Just your government. The peoples' only characteristic which could be criticized is their ignorance of your government's actions. And what is shallow and sad is you talking about tourists n stuff as if the rest of humanity is some kinda animals waiting to bite you. And finally it is you who - based on I dont know what - has created a little world for yourself (marked by the boarders of your country).

messfeeder wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

So, only Americans get basic human rights now?

Edit: Yay!  I now get a daily dose of negative karma!  Go me!

We aren't talking about basic human rights. We are talking about right to a trial like a US citizen gets.  These are terrorists, not soldiers.  They do not follow the rules of war, therefore the rules of war do not apply to them.  We do nothing to them that can be considered inhumane.  And if you consider taking some lame ass pictures inhumane, then we need to start rolling the beheading vids again.

BTW, let me add to your daily dose.

I know this won't be popular but... Yea, we don't make them pose nude for pictures, or use barking German Shepard's to scare them nothing like that.

No one is asking to give them the rights of a US citizen.  I do believe they have the basic right to defend themselves on whatever crime they are accused of.

You know what, i cant even comment on this anymore.  We have done do much for the world and srill get shit on, Im done here.

oug wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

So, you deserve more rights because you have a piece of paper?  Oh, praise the lord, the saviour has arrived!  And lo: He bears PAPER!

You dont fucking get it do you? These prisoners WANT the same rights as US citizens. They want Private US citizens rights to due process. There frigging terrorists. They are combatants and were bearing arms against us with intent to KILL us. They are from every country in the world, thus they belong to no specific army, so the Geneva convention should not apply. You consider yourself a man of logic, wheres the logic in your thinking on this topic? did it fly out the window? I mean come on now, your hatred for Americans is so evident, yet most here dont have a blind hate for Aussie's. You judge ALL Americans at face value because of what? tourists? Thats shallow and sad. I honestly feel bad for you for not being able to see outside the little world you have created for yourself based on a few Americans you might have met.

Who decided they were terrorists?? And who decided they were bearing arms? And who decided what their intent was? And who decided what army they belong to? And even if they belong to no army at all does that make them less than human? And the only reason they want Private US citizen rights and not Norwegian rights is because they are captives of the United States of America. Tell me Judge Headstone, have you any idea what is stated in the Geneva Convention and how many times your country has violated it? How would you feel if YOU were in their position? Do not forget that it was the US who invaded their country and they are mere defenders of their land. I bet none of the prisoners in Guantanamo or any of the other concentration camps your country keeps had anything to do with the terrorist attacks against the US. But then again we should let a decent unbiased court judge that.

BTW always bear in mind that no one in this forum ever attacked the American people. Just your government. The peoples' only characteristic which could be criticized is their ignorance of your government's actions. And what is shallow and sad is you talking about tourists n stuff as if the rest of humanity is some kinda animals waiting to bite you. And finally it is you who - based on I dont know what - has created a little world for yourself (marked by the boarders of your country).

Well thanks I feel much better now that YOU enlightened me.  You find me an Unbiased Judge anywhere in the world where these prisoners would get prosecuted for there crimes instead of just let go, and ill sell you a bridge i own. BTW where you from? Are you embarrassed to tell?

As for the tourist comment i wrote about, it was a reason Bubbalo gave long ago on why he has such opinions of ALL Americans. He has Judged us by the examples of a few tourists he didn't like i guess. He has even stated this, so that was the reason for the comment.

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Well thanks I feel much better now that YOU enlightened me.  You find me an Unbiased Judge anywhere in the world where these prisoners would get prosecuted for there crimes instead of just let go, and ill sell you a bridge i own. BTW where you from? Are you embarrassed to tell?

So according to you, if a judge were to let them go after a trial, that wouldnt be a fair trial?? So hang them already and fuck trials if that's the case.

You are certain of their guilt solely because they are prisoners in Guantanamo and because your fuckbrain president called them terrorists. Your logic is so simplistic it scares me...
As for unbiased judges, I'm sure we could come up with some if we wanted to. But your government clearly does not want that. They prefer concentration camps like ze germanz.
and btw i'm greek (although that has nothing to do with anything) and I post my stats in my sig. It says where I'm from right there if you are curious.

RicardoBlanco wrote:

..according to the US supreme court no less.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/News/newsArt … TANAMO.xml

Bah this thread is all wrong.  The article states that the military tribunals being set up in Guantanamo is illegal.  Not the whole prison itself.

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

oug wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

You dont fucking get it do you? These prisoners WANT the same rights as US citizens. They want Private US citizens rights to due process. There frigging terrorists. They are combatants and were bearing arms against us with intent to KILL us. They are from every country in the world, thus they belong to no specific army, so the Geneva convention should not apply. You consider yourself a man of logic, wheres the logic in your thinking on this topic? did it fly out the window? I mean come on now, your hatred for Americans is so evident, yet most here dont have a blind hate for Aussie's. You judge ALL Americans at face value because of what? tourists? Thats shallow and sad. I honestly feel bad for you for not being able to see outside the little world you have created for yourself based on a few Americans you might have met.

Who decided they were terrorists?? And who decided they were bearing arms? And who decided what their intent was? And who decided what army they belong to? And even if they belong to no army at all does that make them less than human? And the only reason they want Private US citizen rights and not Norwegian rights is because they are captives of the United States of America. Tell me Judge Headstone, have you any idea what is stated in the Geneva Convention and how many times your country has violated it? How would you feel if YOU were in their position? Do not forget that it was the US who invaded their country and they are mere defenders of their land. I bet none of the prisoners in Guantanamo or any of the other concentration camps your country keeps had anything to do with the terrorist attacks against the US. But then again we should let a decent unbiased court judge that.

BTW always bear in mind that no one in this forum ever attacked the American people. Just your government. The peoples' only characteristic which could be criticized is their ignorance of your government's actions. And what is shallow and sad is you talking about tourists n stuff as if the rest of humanity is some kinda animals waiting to bite you. And finally it is you who - based on I dont know what - has created a little world for yourself (marked by the boarders of your country).

Well thanks I feel much better now that YOU enlightened me.  You find me an Unbiased Judge anywhere in the world where these prisoners would get prosecuted for there crimes instead of just let go, and ill sell you a bridge i own. BTW where you from? Are you embarrassed to tell?

As for the tourist comment i wrote about, it was a reason Bubbalo gave long ago on why he has such opinions of ALL Americans. He has Judged us by the examples of a few tourists he didn't like i guess. He has even stated this, so that was the reason for the comment.

As you will have seen from one of my previous posts, there is currently a trial going on in France, where six of the seven French former Gitmo prisoners are standing accused.  The seventh was released without charge.

Where's this bridge, then?

kr@cker wrote:

If you end up at Club Gitmo, there is a 99.987654321% chance you were directly involved with a terrorist cell

Obviously math isn't your best skill. So far they've released 0,5% of prisoners. Proven innocent. Make an exception and post something that is based on facts.

aardfrith wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

oug wrote:

Who decided they were terrorists?? And who decided they were bearing arms? And who decided what their intent was? And who decided what army they belong to? And even if they belong to no army at all does that make them less than human? And the only reason they want Private US citizen rights and not Norwegian rights is because they are captives of the United States of America. Tell me Judge Headstone, have you any idea what is stated in the Geneva Convention and how many times your country has violated it? How would you feel if YOU were in their position? Do not forget that it was the US who invaded their country and they are mere defenders of their land. I bet none of the prisoners in Guantanamo or any of the other concentration camps your country keeps had anything to do with the terrorist attacks against the US. But then again we should let a decent unbiased court judge that.

BTW always bear in mind that no one in this forum ever attacked the American people. Just your government. The peoples' only characteristic which could be criticized is their ignorance of your government's actions. And what is shallow and sad is you talking about tourists n stuff as if the rest of humanity is some kinda animals waiting to bite you. And finally it is you who - based on I dont know what - has created a little world for yourself (marked by the boarders of your country).

Well thanks I feel much better now that YOU enlightened me.  You find me an Unbiased Judge anywhere in the world where these prisoners would get prosecuted for there crimes instead of just let go, and ill sell you a bridge i own. BTW where you from? Are you embarrassed to tell?

As for the tourist comment i wrote about, it was a reason Bubbalo gave long ago on why he has such opinions of ALL Americans. He has Judged us by the examples of a few tourists he didn't like i guess. He has even stated this, so that was the reason for the comment.

As you will have seen from one of my previous posts, there is currently a trial going on in France, where six of the seven French former Gitmo prisoners are standing accused.  The seventh was released without charge.

Where's this bridge, then?

That bridge is going to cost ya LOL. Id give it up for $50,000 US dollars. It Includes 15 achers of land. I'm just waiting for the right offer. See, I really do have a Bridge to sell. I'm getting sick of paying the yearly tax's on the land since its allot of hills, and i cant get around as good as i use to before i broke my back.