Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-05-27 04:17:00)
Actualy he was a insurance salesman and he many people in the military and high ranking officials in NATO have said that he is very accurate. Also Im pretty sure that I heard that he was investigated because they were afraid that people were leaking classified information to him.Drunkaholic wrote:
Tom Clancy is a realtor who never served in the military. Don't try to visualize theoretical situations based on his books.Capt. Foley wrote:
If Russia and China would want to win they would need to take out the carriers and supply ships FAST with there Surface to Surface Missles.
I recomend you read Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy. WWIII without WMD's and very possible if this was the 80s.
Even the day before Stalingrad fell Russian soldiers deserted to the surrounded Germans. And it is true that the Russian soldiers felt some patriotism because the propaganda was massive. But the fear of being shot in the back was often bigger. Fighting was the safest alternative.Bubbalo wrote:
Commissars were only part of it, and a very effective part (to the point that Stalin has been quoted as saying that "in the Soviet army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance"). But to downplay patriotism is hugely myopic. Consider: there were far more soldiers than Commissars, the soldiers could have simply shot the Commissars and surrendered. One only needs to look at WWI to see the effect a war has on Russians.
I'd wager many people's patriotism doesn't amount to much more than fear of being shot in the back.Mackaronen wrote:
Even the day before Stalingrad fell Russian soldiers deserted to the surrounded Germans. And it is true that the Russian soldiers felt some patriotism because the propaganda was massive. But the fear of being shot in the back was often bigger. Fighting was the safest alternative.
Umm....the T-34 might have done well against some of Germany's medium and light tanks, but against Tigers and King Tigers it like almost all other allied tanks basically stood no chance one on one because it's 75mm gun simply could not penetrate the armor of the heavier tanks. That said the T-34 probably was the best front line tank the allies had for most of the war until the US built the M26 Pershing which was designed specifically to go head to head with the Tiger and King Tiger tanks.kr@cker wrote:
actually the T-34 owned the German tanks, it just took a while for it to get there, though the gun wasn't all that great, there is alot of documentation of t-34 crews actually ramming tigers instead of shooting them, then backing up and letting some infantry sappers finish them off so as to save ammo, but yeah the previous models weren't quite up to the fight, this has brought up a good point though, I wonder how many of the soviet casualties were inflicted with a Kommisars firing squads?
Saw that show, rated T34 as the best tank. And dose anyone know why all soviet tanks have the buble type turret. It seems like to deflect the shells INTO the tank????kr@cker wrote:
yeah i know the guns were kinda useless, but oddly enough there was a show on the top 10 tanks on discovery's military channel right before the issue came up, and they talked about how the t-34 was made so the shells would glance off the front as they closed range on the enemy lines to make up for their lack of firepower, and they specifically mentioned the tiger when referring to the soviets ramming tactics, and we thought BF2 invented ram kills
Last edited by Capt. Foley (2006-07-01 22:42:57)
Yea pretty much, if the Axis power werent complete fucking idiots during WWII and would of co-operated more they would of won. Hitler being a idiot and opening 2 fronts. Japan not helping with Russia and not finishing the campain in Southern Asia before the attack on Pearl Harbor. A war on one front is always better. And hitler could of taken out Britan if he and his high ranking genrals were complete fucking morons. If they would of kept with a idea for alittle while they would of screwed Britian over.=JoD=Corithus wrote:
Yes, they fought because they had no choice, as I stated before, their options were, fight, and maybe die, or retreat and get gunned down. And actually, one on one, a t-34 wasn't even in the same field as a Panther or Tiger. The German equipment had more armor, a more powerful gun, better armor tactics, and significantly better trained crew. The Russians managed to push to Berlin for two reasons, one, Hitler was a fucking moron for opening up a second front, thereby dividing his forces in a very foolish manner, and two, the German army groups in Russia advanced too fast to establish a reliable supply chain. It wasn't about patriotism or numbers, it was about logistics. A tank without fuel cannot move, a tank without shells cannnot fight, regardless of how superior it may be compared to it's opponents.