Pages: 1

 

2006-06-26 17:54:36
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6769|Global Command
So I'm a contractor, right?
I'm bidding a state run high school project one time and the general contractor says to me " I'll tell you where you need to be if you put 10% in for me."
This company does all kinds of government work, and you know what I've learned; Thats how it's done.
He takes kick backs from the subcontractors, he gives kickbacks to the school superintendent who sees that this general contractor gets the work and  pays bribes to inspectors to speed things along. The cost for government projects is 4-6 times the private sector because not only is payoffs and kickbacks part of the budget, but the state regulates how much the workers get paid ( called prevailing wage ) and its usually at least double any private sector tradesmen. It's very easy to bid LOTS of extra labor in a job.
     Politicians do it in a more grotesque way as they are blatantly selling our borders, laws and rights to the highest bidder. And paying the bribes and kickbacks they pay with tax dollar money.
    Although I have been a unrelenting defender of our troops and their mission in Iraq you can bet the fox is in the hen house and the U.S. taxpayers are getting butt raped without lube. What I have seen is just the shadow of the tip of the iceberg and I see no viable recourse but revolution as corruption runs so deep and is so a part of our day to day life that it will take a complete overhaul of our monetary and political systems.
     We are being overrun by illegal aliens ( broken arrow! broken arrow! ), entangled in ill-defined foreign wars and there are a large number of people in America who are rabidly socialist and Marxist. No wonder they want to take our guns; we are being set up and herded into a slaughter pen.
     I really believe now that America is doomed. What is your opinion?
2006-06-26 18:00:54
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6810|Portland, OR, USA
yeah all "great" empires always crumble and its going to happen to this one too.  just a matter of when and how...  illegal aliens though, our great great great grandparents (or whatever) were technically all illegal if you think about it.. confusing system but yeah, we're screwed
2006-06-26 18:03:27
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6769|Global Command

CommieChipmunk wrote:

yeah all "great" empires always crumble and its going to happen to this one too.  just a matter of when and how...  illegal aliens though, our great great great grandparents (or whatever) were technically all illegal if you think about it.. confusing system but yeah, we're screwed
No they weren't. My family immigrated leaglly in 1843.
2006-06-26 18:03:37
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6976|Salt Lake City

Not to be rude, but you are just figuring this out?  I think it got you a little harshly because your trade and livelihood were just put in the middle of the slimy ooze that seeps from our business/government institutions.
2006-06-26 18:04:48
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6769|Global Command

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Not to be rude, but you are just figuring this out?  I think it got you a little harshly because your trade and livelihood were just put in the middle of the slimy ooze that seeps from our business/government institutions.
No, I just decided the time was right for the topic
2006-06-26 18:04:53
Havazn
Member
+39|6934|van.ca

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Politicians do it in a more grotesque way as they are blatantly selling our borders, laws and rights to the highest bidder. And paying the bribes and kickbacks they pay with tax dollar money.
Isn't that the point of Capitalism? Make money with no stipulation on how?
2006-06-26 18:08:53
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6976|Salt Lake City

Havazn wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Politicians do it in a more grotesque way as they are blatantly selling our borders, laws and rights to the highest bidder. And paying the bribes and kickbacks they pay with tax dollar money.
Isn't that the point of Capitalism? Make money with no stipulation on how?
In an absolutely pure capitalistic system, yes.  However, the US is not a pure capitalist system.  This is why you are seeing so many politicians/CEO getting busted.  They tried to play it that way and got caught.  However, I wonder at times if it was decided that they were simply a scapegoat, and far worse things are really happening.  Yeah, it sound like a conspiracy theory, but you have to wonder at times.
2006-06-26 18:12:13
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6769|Global Command
I'm telling you, they got fingered because they didn't payoff the right people.
Or they tried to hide profits they they have to pay kickbacks out of and they got caught.
Who was that asshole guy two weeks ago that got caught with $90,000.00 in cash in his freezer?
Somebody get me a rope it's time for some hangings.
2006-06-26 18:20:41
-CARNIFEX-[LOC]
Da Blooze
+111|6894
I don't even want to get into a "look how corrupt the government is" conversation right now *cough*Haliburton*cough* because it's just too damn depressing...corruption isn't just a byproduct of how a state is governed...it's just human nature to act selfishly, or to at least have the impulse to at times, and it's reflected in all levels of larger societies.  In some remote areas you may find truly altruistic living conditions amongst people, but large societies of humans will forever be plagued by problems such as this. 

I'm not saying people are doomed, because there is an inexplicable amount of good in people, too...you won't usually find any wild animals (there are some exceptions obviously) willing to forfeit their life to save another of their kind, yet humans will perform selfless acts that can leave you astonished.

Have faith that if and when things get bad enough, the people will have had enough and will stand up for themselves.  People call Americans fat, lazy, corrupt...and you can justify each statement in a lot of ways.  But in the very fabric of America there lies a can-do spirit, and a willingness to stand up for what you believe in, and I truly believe it will carry on in some shape or form for a long time to come.
















Until China kicks our ass in 40 years and all our organs wind up on the Hong Kong blackmarket.

Last edited by -CARNIFEX-[LOC] (2006-06-26 18:23:23)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg
2006-06-26 20:04:58
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6796
Man will never establish a homogenous relation with one another until our ethical and moral systems can be redeveloped for modern means...something of which will never take place, for far too many hold on to their intrinsic desires for indulgence and propensities to act only with self interest in mind. Many people see that the global community is advanced in a temporal context, but the vast majority of individuals remain with a large, basic primal sense, barely touching upon the (cognitive) capabilities of our species.

Stand for me in times of need and I shall lead in times of greed. ROlfRawfullkseeyetsoopwnzworld

Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-26 20:08:16)

2006-06-26 20:54:11
Havazn
Member
+39|6934|van.ca

Alexanderthegrap wrote:

What I have seen is just the shadow of the tip of the iceberg and I see no viable recourse but revolution as corruption runs so deep and is so a part of our day to day life that it will take a complete overhaul of our monetary and political systems.
What overhaul do you mean? For the monetary and political systems which are in place now created such corruption and only the regulation by government do the corrupt get caught. Do mean to say that you want more government involvement into the economy in order to further curb the corrupt?
2006-06-26 20:57:12
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7012|PNW

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Nicely said.
I agree and this is why socialism will always fail. Corruption will always win without a Star Trek like future.
If you'll recall, Starfleet and the Federation alike have had their fair share of corrupt administrators, and humans still participated in activities involving the illegal acquisition of wealth.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-06-26 20:58:18)

2006-06-26 21:08:06
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6922|Canada
so alexanderthegrape isn't so right wing after all.
Socialism works at the community level, if all communities worked together, and for each other's benefit, it could work.  The only thing required is a desire for common good, and to put away the desire to gain exponential growth.  You can still make money, but who needs more when they already have millions?  interest alone can support the rest of their lives.  The rich should be encouraged to retire so as to take an active role in 1 upping the community, instead of trying to take more from it that they don't need.  It's impossible, but I'd like to see corporations abolished, or at least heavily reformed, to ensure those responsible can be held responsible for crimes.
2006-06-26 21:44:59
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7012|PNW

Spumantiii wrote:

so alexanderthegrape isn't so right wing after all.
Socialism works at the community level, if all communities worked together, and for each other's benefit, it could work.  The only thing required is a desire for common good, and to put away the desire to gain exponential growth.  You can still make money, but who needs more when they already have millions?  interest alone can support the rest of their lives.  The rich should be encouraged to retire so as to take an active role in 1 upping the community, instead of trying to take more from it that they don't need.  It's impossible, but I'd like to see corporations abolished, or at least heavily reformed, to ensure those responsible can be held responsible for crimes.
Of course, as you are aware, the key word here is "if." For an idealistic society like this to be at all possible in the future would require meddling in the human psyche at a genetic level.

For now, I'm happy when I see charities that don't blow money donated to them on fancy offices and ten-foot portraits of their founder.
2006-06-26 23:06:47
Havazn
Member
+39|6934|van.ca

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

so alexanderthegrape isn't so right wing after all.
Socialism works at the community level, if all communities worked together, and for each other's benefit, it could work.  The only thing required is a desire for common good, and to put away the desire to gain exponential growth.  You can still make money, but who needs more when they already have millions?  interest alone can support the rest of their lives.  The rich should be encouraged to retire so as to take an active role in 1 upping the community, instead of trying to take more from it that they don't need.  It's impossible, but I'd like to see corporations abolished, or at least heavily reformed, to ensure those responsible can be held responsible for crimes.
Of course, as you are aware, the key word here is "if." For an idealistic society like this to be at all possible in the future would require meddling in the human psyche at a genetic level.

For now, I'm happy when I see charities that don't blow money donated to them on fancy offices and ten-foot portraits of their founder.
I for one believe that our level of conscience gives us the ability to override any 'primal' urge of greed. For if some of us can do it, then why not all?. Because it is our society that has engrained into us that we need all of these useless items just because of social status. A status that cannot be measured by any means of science. In our day and age it is money that defines our echelons. Yet clearly we see how much of a fallacy it is. Take Paris Hilton for an example. A woman who has contributed nothing to soceity. Born into wealth and luxuary that only a fraction of her estate cost her. The rest of it will never be seen or used. Yet society praises her simply because her family has money. Again, so much money that it just sits there, and will continue to sit there, passed on from generation to generation. Almost as if it didn't exist at all. So what is she good for? I say nothing, but I will be the first to retract that as soon as she does more than provide 10 mins worth material for all of us to jack off to.
2006-06-27 03:51:24
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7081|Cologne, Germany

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Nicely said.
I agree and this is why socialism will always fail. Corruption will always win without a Star Trek like future.
If you'll recall, Starfleet and the Federation alike have had their fair share of corrupt administrators, and humans still participated in activities involving the illegal acquisition of wealth.
rofl.... +1 for that..
2006-06-27 08:44:44
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6769|Global Command

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

I'm not saying people are doomed, because there is an inexplicable amount of good in people, too...you won't usually find any wild animals (there are some exceptions obviously) willing to forfeit their life to save another of their kind, yet humans will perform selfless acts that can leave you astonished.

Have faith that if and when things get bad enough, the people will have had enough and will stand up for themselves.  People call Americans fat, lazy, corrupt...and you can justify each statement in a lot of ways.  But in the very fabric of America there lies a can-do spirit, and a willingness to stand up for what you believe in, and I truly believe it will carry on in some shape or form for a long time to come.
What are you, some sort of a jedi Master?

Havazn wrote:

What overhaul do you mean? For the monetary and political systems which are in place now created such corruption and only the regulation by government do the corrupt get caught. Do mean to say that you want more government involvement into the economy in order to further curb the corrupt?
I mean certain things seem inevitable, such as a cashless society. We need to have harsh laws, including capital punishment for corruption and gross repeat corporate polluters. Yes, I said people who insist on dumping chemicals should be shot. A cashless system, hack proof, would end evil politicians stuff cash into their freezers.
      Such laws could only be implemented by a true democracy, not a representative republic like we have now. Though basically a capatalist ( I own a business and vote gun rights and no taxes ) I find it hard to justify mega billion fortunes. There just needs to be a limit. Say 10 billion and your done. The casual breaking off the law I see everyday in the form of bribes and money laundering by otherwise upstanding citizens leads one to believe that you have to be crooked to succeed. I live in Orange County. If you are not making at least 100k per year you cannot afford a shitty little  house, and yet million dollars house are practically the norm in a lot of cities. It seems like EVERYBODY is scamming somebody. I did a job for a guy who processes workers comp stuff. He paid 12k in cash. Go figure.

Spumantiii wrote:

so alexanderthegrape isn't so right wing after all.
I'm agnostic therefor I cannot be uterly right wing.
As a follow up to my original thread I said to the guy; " I don't do that "
He asked for my card and I never heard from that company or that school district again.
2006-06-27 09:20:08
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6975|California

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

So I'm a contractor, right?
I'm bidding a state run high school project one time and the general contractor says to me " I'll tell you where you need to be if you put 10% in for me."
This company does all kinds of government work, and you know what I've learned; Thats how it's done.
He takes kick backs from the subcontractors, he gives kickbacks to the school superintendent who sees that this general contractor gets the work and  pays bribes to inspectors to speed things along. The cost for government projects is 4-6 times the private sector because not only is payoffs and kickbacks part of the budget, but the state regulates how much the workers get paid ( called prevailing wage ) and its usually at least double any private sector tradesmen. It's very easy to bid LOTS of extra labor in a job.
Agreed.
2006-06-30 09:17:34
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7012|PNW

Havazn wrote:

I for one believe that our level of conscience gives us the ability to override any 'primal' urge of greed. For if some of us can do it, then why not all?. Because it is our society that has engrained into us that we need all of these useless items just because of social status. A status that cannot be measured by any means of science. In our day and age it is money that defines our echelons. Yet clearly we see how much of a fallacy it is. Take Paris Hilton for an example. A woman who has contributed nothing to soceity. Born into wealth and luxuary that only a fraction of her estate cost her. The rest of it will never be seen or used. Yet society praises her simply because her family has money. Again, so much money that it just sits there, and will continue to sit there, passed on from generation to generation. Almost as if it didn't exist at all. So what is she good for? I say nothing, but I will be the first to retract that as soon as she does more than provide 10 mins worth material for all of us to jack off to.
Wealth is the means for some to, beyond basic needs, fulfill their concept of enjoyment of life. For one who obviously sees past all that, why would you begrudge others of their moderate avarice? Be happy with your suredly generous contributions of time and materiel to charity, which will, among others', do far more good for the development of human civilization than any forced state of socialism.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-06-30 09:19:58)

2006-06-30 09:34:03
Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|7046|Orlando, FL - Age 43

Havazn wrote:

Isn't that the point of Capitalism? Make money with no stipulation on how?
I am sorry to inform you that the same system was even more in play in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc countries. Don't try to lay it the economic system, lay it on greed and power. Notice that he mentions it in relation to government.

 

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