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2006-06-26 16:06:23
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6957|Salt Lake City

I own a hunting rifle, a hand gun, and a bow.  I've been fortunate enough to never have had to use any deadly means to protect myself.  However, I don't think outlawing all guns is the answer.  I'm a left leaning centrist, but I don't want my guns taken from me by the government. 

A statistical fact:  Washington DC has a gun ban.  It also has one of the highest murder rates in the US.

Do I want to see the day where we go back to every adult wearing a sidearm, or even worse, a middle east type situation where even children are carrying assault weapons?  Absolutely not.  However, I have yet to see a country that has implemented a gun ban show any real evidence that taking firearms away from their law abiding citizens has provided a decrease in crime.
2006-06-26 17:22:28
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6923|New York
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^BINGO! to you!^^^^^^^^^^^
2006-06-26 22:41:25
Fred[OZ75]
Jihad Jeep Driver
+19|6981|Perth, Western Australia

Horseman 77 wrote:

So utterly lost and out of his depth that I can give no response, I am speechless at the level of knowledge that school systems provide. I weep for their future.

By this thought process Radio would not be protected by the 1st amendment.

I just can not believe I read that. I really cant. 
Please tell me you are 7 years old, It is the only redeeming reply I can think of.
The US has some of the tightest censorship of the airwaves in the so called free world, what makes you think the 1st amendment does protect the radio?

When the founding fathers talked about the right to bear arms the arms couldn't be used by kids and have 30 round clips with the choice of semi or auto, then again the founding fathers would be in utter shock in how much power the president now holds.
2006-06-26 22:45:33
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865

'Fred[OZ75 wrote:

When the founding fathers talked about the right to bear arms the arms couldn't be used by kids and have 30 round clips with the choice of semi or auto, then again the founding fathers would be in utter shock in how much power the president now holds.
no they just had .68 minie balls that shattered anything in its path.  not to mention who do you think did all the hunting and farming which required the use of fire arms.  the weapons of yesterday are bigger and heavier than the ones of today and children were expected to know how to use a firearm if they wanted to eat.

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-06-26 22:46:56)

2006-06-26 22:50:07
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865

Fred[OZ75] wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

" Gun laws were written a long time ago " So was the First amendment ! We should interpret the 2cnd like we do the first. Our founding fathers had amazing foresight, But the didn't foresee Ethnic cleansing, Death camps and all the other Ills that befell Europe in the last 50 years, Had they, they would have probably made it the first amendment.
The right to bear arms bit was written when all that was around where muskets and swords as personal weapons... not ak-47s and RPGs. The law was written about technology not a protection under law, technology changes even legal rights change (or should people still be slaves?)

Gun Control has nothing to do with a right to bear arms, gun control could actually mean no one is allowed anything but muskets and swords and it would fall within the original meaning of this "right".
after reading a few of your posts i have concluded that you are an idiot.  you may dispute this.  when the fuck did RPG's get into 1st amendment talk...LOL
2006-06-27 02:01:47
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6923|New York
I dont know of any state where an RPG is legal.
2006-06-27 02:04:53
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865
RPG's arent even firearms.  they are condsidered grenades.
2006-06-28 05:30:08
MurPHy
Member
+9|6792|West Deptford, NJ

Fred[OZ75] wrote:

MurPHy...

If I came across you in the middle of nowhere and I have a big gun and you don't what rights do you have except to do what-ever I say or die?
Following along with your theoretical situation, I would either:

A: Kill you

Or the more likely outcome

B: Die.


Then again, the proof's in the pudding, so to speak. I'm being Mr. Tough Guy on the Internet here. Who's to say that I won't break down crying like a little girl, begging for my life? Who's to say you've got too much self-respect and pride to kill an unarmed man? Neither of us can answer those questions unless we are put to the test.



=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

MurPHy wrote:

As for your example, you're forgetting that the Militia is already present. Every capable man who owns a firearm is part of the militia. Would they win against Bush overtaking the government? If the Army does not support him, yes. I believe the majority of the armed forces would not support such a manuver, and would defend the People.
So, let me get this straight.  You're basing your pro-guns argument on the basis that you might have to overthrow you government one day?  That's nearly as bad as the "Dog ate my homework" excuse I used when I was at school. 

I mean, can you seriously tell me that is why you own a gun?  For a country that bangs on about liberty and freedom all the time (land of the free and all that...), that is a very paranoid stance to take.

Besides if Tony Blair decided not to step down, the Police would just throw him out and the same would happen to George Bush.  You see the flaw in your argument is that if Bush were to mount any kind of serious threat he would need to control the army and the police (this is how dictators work and keep power) but you just said they would support the people, so what would happen?  Would Bush just lock  himself in the White House and refuse to leave?  How exactly would he retain any power over you if he did go mad and refuse to step down? 

If on the other hand, if the army/police did follow orders from Bush, then you're pissy little Magnums aren't gonna do anything against the army.

You know you're argument is bollocks and I'm convinced it is a wind-up....
Firstly, I don't even own a firearm, unless you count paintball guns, in which case, I have three. If I ever did buy one (or more...), it would be for sporting or collecting purposes (I am a student of history).


From your perspective, I can understand why you would consider such a state of mind to be paranoid, if not downright dangerous. Then again, the long history your country has indicated that personal freedoms and liberty never was very high on the "to-do" list.

However, you make a very valid point! Despots cannot gain and keep power politically without first having it militarily. That is the major flaw in my scenario. With the current state the United States of America is in, IF Bush attempted a coup, at the most the local police and higher echelons of the military would support him. It would be enough to tear the country asunder, and possibly even spark another Civil War. Am I paranoid? Perhaps. Honestly speaking, I highly doubt any such thing will occur anytime soon. What worries me is that we are slipping closer and closer to the brink, ever so slowly. Vigilance is our burden.


Pissy little Magnums? Ho ho! You've been watching too much American television. Most have good collections of longarms. One friend of mine would no doubt be more than happy to lend me his M1 Garand...


=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Murphy, how would you feel about a Muslim building a bomb in his US home and saying he won't use it unless he is attacked (thus, for his protection).  Would you defend his right or would you support him being thrown in Guantanamo.

P.S Any punk can shoot a gun, it's takes a real man to use his bare hands...grow a spine America.
I would be against it, and so would the BATF. Explosives are in a whole 'nother realm from firearms, don't try to pervert this discussion into something else entirely.



PS: Keep thinking that way, and you'll bring a knife to a gunfight one day. Guess who'll win?


Jinto-sk wrote:

Loving the debate peeps    Keep it comin

The argument about a gun for protection against invasion, sorry load of rubbish - that is what the armed forces are for, US has one of the larger armies of the world so that argument doesn't sit with me
Against invasion yes, but not merely a foriegn one.
2006-06-28 06:01:56
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7058

Fred[OZ75] wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

So utterly lost and out of his depth that I can give no response, I am speechless at the level of knowledge that school systems provide. I weep for their future.

By this thought process Radio would not be protected by the 1st amendment.

I just can not believe I read that. I really cant. 
Please tell me you are 7 years old, It is the only redeeming reply I can think of.
The US has some of the tightest censorship of the airwaves in the so called free world, what makes you think the 1st amendment does protect the radio?

When the founding fathers talked about the right to bear arms the arms couldn't be used by kids and have 30 round clips with the choice of semi or auto, then again the founding fathers would be in utter shock in how much power the president now holds.
Out of his depth.
2006-06-28 06:38:38
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6739|Montucky
i'd just like to add my 2 cents.  a man with a felony conviction cannot own or possess a firearm, with that being said he can't go down to the local sportsman warehouse and purchase a pistol, however he'll have his ways of obaining said firearm. Now he needs those little things that make a firearm usefull, ammunition. so he'll go down to his local War-Mart/K-Mart where all you need to do is provide proof you are 21 years or older just like going down and buying beer. It might be a good idea to restrict the sale of ammunition, Our forefathers say we have the right to bear arms, but nowhere does it say that its a LOADED (meaning containing those things that go "bang"[ammunition/bullets]) firearm. just a thought....
2006-06-28 07:07:20
Toonces7
Member
+11|6795|Iowa
This has probably already been said, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it.  Gun bans only take guns away from law abiding citizens.  I do however think assault rifles are a little too extreme to be in the hands of the public.  I can justify owning a shotgun for hunting, but why in the world would you need an AK-47?  If they say they use it for hunting or for protection, that's a load of crap.  You can protect your home or family with a handgun or shotgun.....  I've always thought it was bizarre that England's police don't carry sidearms?!!  What do they do when they actually encounter someone who is armed?
2006-06-28 07:40:03
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7058
You will be happy to know that  assualt rifles were Never  available to the Public, Just guns that looked like assualt rifles, This should close this line of argument unless you belive painting a racing stripe on you car makes it go faster.
2006-06-28 08:05:11
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6739|Montucky
well chrome does add 10 horsepower...

true i do have an Armalite AR 15, nowhere near the M4A1 i carried somedays in the Marines.. with respect to full auto, These AR-15 just have large capacity magazines thus making it scary to the public with he's got 30 rounds instead of the 10 round magazine provided by the manufactor, Ruger makes a Varmit rifle, most notably the most famous .22 Caliber rifle out there, you can purchase 30 round magazines for it, does that make it an "assault" rifle? its semi-automatic like an AR-15 just a smaller bullet and casing...

***EDIT***
during the assault rifle ban---

in the people's republic of California an assault rifle is defined as having a pistol grip, a high capacity magazine, and a bayonet lug. You were only able to have one of these options to own an assault rifle unless you had purchased that firearm before the ban, hence pre-ban or post-ban rifles.


Since i live in Bumfuck Montana, i use my AR-15 (m16 but a civilian version minus the 3 round burst or full-auto function) for target practice, hunting of small game as defined in the Montana Code Anotated (varmits, coyotes) i also use it for the career i'm currently in. (law enforcement) yeah i know a cop who plays BF2? weird, oh by the way no legal questions please, i'm not going to tell you how to beat a DUI or crap like that.

Last edited by [1FR]S3v3N (2006-06-28 08:11:08)

2006-06-28 08:27:10
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7058
lotsa things scare libs, Pray for Rain on election night ! lol Been to Kalispell And  Boozeman, Want to go back!

Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-06-28 08:28:31)

2006-06-29 09:09:20
LoMaX
Member
+24|6755|Sweden is banned from hell ;)

[1FR]S3v3N wrote:

well chrome does add 10 horsepower...

true i do have an Armalite AR 15, nowhere near the M4A1 i carried somedays in the Marines.. with respect to full auto, These AR-15 just have large capacity magazines thus making it scary to the public with he's got 30 rounds instead of the 10 round magazine provided by the manufactor, Ruger makes a Varmit rifle, most notably the most famous .22 Caliber rifle out there, you can purchase 30 round magazines for it, does that make it an "assault" rifle? its semi-automatic like an AR-15 just a smaller bullet and casing...

***EDIT***
during the assault rifle ban---

in the people's republic of California an assault rifle is defined as having a pistol grip, a high capacity magazine, and a bayonet lug. You were only able to have one of these options to own an assault rifle unless you had purchased that firearm before the ban, hence pre-ban or post-ban rifles.


Since i live in Bumfuck Montana, i use my AR-15 (m16 but a civilian version minus the 3 round burst or full-auto function) for target practice, hunting of small game as defined in the Montana Code Anotated (varmits, coyotes) i also use it for the career i'm currently in. (law enforcement) yeah i know a cop who plays BF2? weird, oh by the way no legal questions please, i'm not going to tell you how to beat a DUI or crap like that.
Well I can at least understand your point since you are an "official" gunowner (LAW).
Good luck with your hunting. But I do not see a reson for people in the city to own guns.. borrow one after showing a licence at a shooting range might work as well?

My 2 cents.
/LoMaX
2006-06-29 09:13:55
mKmalfunction
Infamous meleeKings cult. Est. 2003 B.C.
+82|6761|The Lost Highway
Guns are great.

I saw part of BFC... And in one of his random montage of video clips showing guns killing people... There's one of a dad shooting the guy who raped his little boy.

But he doesn't give the story behind it. Just shows the guy getting shot. I say the fucker deserved it, and so does Mr. Moore.
2006-06-29 09:32:49
TheEqualizer
Member
+6|6753|Maryland, USA
They shouldn't ban guns, just the bullets.  Guns don't kill people, bullets do.  Actually, I have a serious question.  Can you kill someone with a BB gun?  I was just curious cause I haven't used on since I was a little kid and wondering if we need to put a ban on BB guns as well. 

By the way, my real opinion is that I agree with those that believe that gun control only takes guns away from upstanding citizens.  Criminals who don't obey the common law aren't going to abide by any gun control laws.
2006-06-29 09:53:05
mKmalfunction
Infamous meleeKings cult. Est. 2003 B.C.
+82|6761|The Lost Highway

TheEqualizer wrote:

They shouldn't ban guns, just the bullets.  Guns don't kill people, bullets do.  Actually, I have a serious question.  Can you kill someone with a BB gun?  I was just curious cause I haven't used on since I was a little kid and wondering if we need to put a ban on BB guns as well. 

By the way, my real opinion is that I agree with those that believe that gun control only takes guns away from upstanding citizens.  Criminals who don't obey the common law aren't going to abide by any gun control laws.
With enough well placed shots, yeah bro. You can.
2006-06-29 12:03:36
PekkaA
Member
+36|6885|Finland

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Fred[OZ75] wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

" Gun laws were written a long time ago " So was the First amendment ! We should interpret the 2cnd like we do the first. Our founding fathers had amazing foresight, But the didn't foresee Ethnic cleansing, Death camps and all the other Ills that befell Europe in the last 50 years, Had they, they would have probably made it the first amendment.
The right to bear arms bit was written when all that was around where muskets and swords as personal weapons... not ak-47s and RPGs. The law was written about technology not a protection under law, technology changes even legal rights change (or should people still be slaves?)

Gun Control has nothing to do with a right to bear arms, gun control could actually mean no one is allowed anything but muskets and swords and it would fall within the original meaning of this "right".
after reading a few of your posts i have concluded that you are an idiot.  you may dispute this.  when the fuck did RPG's get into 1st amendment talk...LOL
Actually this thread was originally about gun control, and those who think it shouldn't exist plead on 1st amendment. Maybe you should read a bit more carefully before bringing out such opinions.
2006-06-29 12:07:28
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865

PekkaA wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Fred[OZ75] wrote:


The right to bear arms bit was written when all that was around where muskets and swords as personal weapons... not ak-47s and RPGs. The law was written about technology not a protection under law, technology changes even legal rights change (or should people still be slaves?)

Gun Control has nothing to do with a right to bear arms, gun control could actually mean no one is allowed anything but muskets and swords and it would fall within the original meaning of this "right".
after reading a few of your posts i have concluded that you are an idiot.  you may dispute this.  when the fuck did RPG's get into 1st amendment talk...LOL
Actually this thread was originally about gun control, and those who think it shouldn't exist plead on 1st amendment. Maybe you should read a bit more carefully before bringing out such opinions.
im gonna blame this on the language barrier bro, maybe you didnt really understand what I wrote.
2006-06-29 12:09:18
PekkaA
Member
+36|6885|Finland
As a non-american I really wonder why guns a such a big deal to americans. I just don't understand how so many of you are so obsessed with them. Please tell me.

Is there any other item you would be ready to defend with a same fury? "From my cold dead hands" etc....
2006-06-29 12:10:52
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865

PekkaA wrote:

As a non-american I really wonder why guns a such a big deal to americans. I just don't understand how so many of you are so obsessed with them. Please tell me.

Is there any other item you would be ready to defend with a same fury? "From my cold dead hands" etc....
The United States constitution without a doubt in my mind.  That 2nd amendment falls right into that category.
2006-06-29 12:17:09
PekkaA
Member
+36|6885|Finland

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

PekkaA wrote:

As a non-american I really wonder why guns a such a big deal to americans. I just don't understand how so many of you are so obsessed with them. Please tell me.

Is there any other item you would be ready to defend with a same fury? "From my cold dead hands" etc....
The United States constitution without a doubt in my mind.  That 2nd amendment falls right into that category.
I knew this was coming. I meant things like playstations and other toys.
2006-06-29 12:20:11
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865
my DD214
2006-06-29 12:26:02
Toni
Member
+4|6784
I own a gun and I'm not from the states. I come from a small country called Slovenia wich probably the half of the world mistakes for Slovakia, but we're a small country of former Yugoslavia (The best example for our country is ALI G Movie, where an ugly girl in the airport is sent BACK TO SLOVENIA by the customs officer - but we have pretty nice honeys - look at mega zillionare Trump - he's married to one).

Heh, what I wanted to say is that we need a permit to own a gun and you should not have any criminal record or the only way to own a gun is illegaly. But as we evolve and more and more people are conserned about their safety, more and more are getting guns for their personal protection. Not many of them carry them in the public, but they have on at home, but if you ask someone about it, no one will just say or brag about it. It's still hush hush, just like porn.

Well, I don't like everything about America (especially politics), but I like that you guys live a lot more cheaper than we do here in Europe (in don't know why, but for example - I have recently bought Mercedes - Benz C320 CDI - which yanks are just getting - disel ROCKS ASS OVER GAS ANY DAY, except for the sound - and I have noticed that in the states with the same equipment is about 3000 $ cheaper ??), so I would live in the states or just try to.

Well, that's just little ol' me so maybe one day our paths will cross.

Out !

 

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