BF2S Forums Who has a right to Palestine and the Holy Lands?

max wrote:

Flecco wrote:

max wrote:

BTW: the british were actually were against the creation of israel (they null vote = no).

And i think that the palestinians have the right on the land. they used to be there, then the WW2 ended and because the US did not want all the jews migrating to the US, they pushed the illegal (hey, it's against the UN charta) creation of israel. If they would have taken the jews up we would not have the problems in the middle east that we have now and be best pals.

EDIT: i like the us, they just screwed up big time with israel

Lol, the British started the founding of Israel. As previously mentioned it goes back to WW1 and the Belfour declaration.

lol, actually britain funded their own empire, but after WW2 they were against the creation on a religios state (hey, iran is bad because it's muslemic, but israel is good since its a jewish state).

Once again, I say read the Balfour Declaration. It states the British support for the founding of a Jewish homeland in the Palestinian region.

Flecco wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

I am personally against the Zionist Jews in Israel who believe they have a right to take what isn't theirs because they need a home.

Try not to put any bias into your opening comments. And yes, based on that line, you are anti-semitic.

I think you started this post just to see how many people would agree with you.

HE IS NOT ANTI SEMITIC... He is anti Zionist... BIG FRIGGING DIFFERENCE THERE.... HUGE...

I hate how often people confuse the two... He has no problem with the anti zionist jews (there is a large, and growing, movement of them...).


Jews were welcome in Palestine before it became Israel (as is documented, after the Balfour Declaration a huge influx of Jewish immegrants was seen in Palestine and they were made quite welcome).

My opinion, while the Palestinians are the rightful owners Israel has to stay where it is now. It is to late to change the situation.

I don't suppose many citizens of the US of A would like to be forced of their land because their ancestors didn't own it roughly 2000 years ago?
Hell, I'd be pissed if I was told I couldn't live in Australia because I'm not of Aboriginal decent.

I think what he's basically saying is that: I'm perfectly happy to let someone stay in my house if they really need to (Jews), but they have absolutely no right no kick me out of it. (Anti-Zionist)

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

whoever occupies the land and has the ability to govern and defend it.  guess that knocks out the PLO

I'll have to disagree with you on part of your point. The fact that someone CAN govern does not mean they SHOULD govern. By that token one could say that if Nazi Germany had spread out all across Europe but stopped short of Russia then they would have been quite entitled to govern the lands they occupied in WWII.
Also Israel cannot govern the entire region because if they did it would sound the death knell for the state of Israel. The jewish nature of the state would be threatened given the millions of new 'israeli arabs' and the fact that arab birth rates are far higher than israeli birth rates.

Basically the whole thing is a mammoth shit sandwich.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-28 02:01:08)

so how far back do you have to go before the "they were there first" argument no longer applies, cuz I seem to remember that the Jews were there a long time ago, like a few thousand years ago

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-06-28 07:39:25)

so quit using that argument, a war was fought, land was redistributed by the victor, atl east the Jews would be able to instill a non-theocratic form of government that allows all religions to be practiced in that area, quit being pissed that the Brits made Ireland their bitch

kr@cker wrote:

so quit using that argument, a war was fought, land was redistributed by the victor, atl east the Jews would be able to instill a non-theocratic form of government that allows all religions to be practiced in that area, quit being pissed that the Brits made Ireland their bitch

There are parallels between the Ireland and Palestine situations and I'm not gonna quit 'being pissed'. Are you gonna quit 'being pissed' about insurgents blowing US soldiers into smithereens with roadside bombs? I didn't think so.

By your rationale - had Nazi Germany consolidated and not bothered Russia, the Nazis would have been quite within their rights to own, settle and administer the territories they had claimed. Hmmmm. Just because a war is won doesn't make it just or fair.

The Palestinians have a history of being one of the more secular groups of arabs in the middle east. Nationalism is a bit of a no-no in Islam yet the Palestinians are fiercely nationalist. The DEMOCRATIC election of a theocratic party was more a vote against the corruption of Fatah than for any great desire to see an Islamic state.

It is patently obvious that you are viewing the entire situation through a completely different looking glass from me - try considering what you would think/do if a greater superpower developed that rolled onto US territory, claiming it for itself and subjugating and oppressing the Americans. Just think about that.

PS There are plenty of hardline religious jewish elements in the Knesset and all politicians there must at least pay lip service to the orthodox community. The fact that the entire state is founded upon there bing a majority of people residing there that practice a particular religion isn't exactly too far removed from a theocracy.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-28 08:12:14)

daffytag wrote:

both countries need to grow up, and share the land.

Why should the Palestinians have to?  How about I rock up tommorrow, kick you out of your house, and then when you call the cops I tell you to build a bridge and get over it because you're acting like a child?

lol, you been bubalo'd

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

National borders have fluctuated so much in human history that who's to say what belongs to anyone? Sorry to say that "might makes right," as it always has.

OK, so if might makes right, is it fair to install a superior military presence, disarm the indigenous population, and take away the right of said population to defend themselves, thus making them subserviant to the other?

CameronPoe wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

National borders have fluctuated so much in human history that who's to say what belongs to anyone? Sorry to say that "might makes right," as it always has.

If 'might makes right' is your ethos then will you embrace the cantonese language if the Chinese every successfully invade USA? If it is just your observation then I agree with you that 'might makes right' seems to be the unfortunate truth and that many peoples are doomed to suffer injustice from here to eternity.

1. Mandarin would be the language spoken.

2. It sucks, but that's the way its been for a long, long time.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

National borders have fluctuated so much in human history that who's to say what belongs to anyone? Sorry to say that "might makes right," as it always has.

this is part of my point,
another being that the pre-jew settlers of these lands in ancient times were nomads with no official governing bodies, the earliest settled civilization with a discernable governing body was jewish, and Jerusalem first became a cultural center under Israeli rule
and my favorite part, is that I'm letting the usual suspects who like to spout off about how great and infallible the supreme governing body of the universe called the UN is in all the other threads dig themselves a hole in that the current state of Israel is pretty much the same as what the UN set forth in their 1947 plan, but now all of a sudden what the UN says doesn't matter, nice selective application of logic

and Poe, I'm just trying to point out that the common theme in all your animosity is related to British Imperialism, they got out of there and actually tried to do something humanitarian on their way out, had they not set up an Israeli state and we learned that it was talked about at one time, I bet you would be critiscizing them for that.....


and it's a good thing china's so big, cuz it would take alot of dead chins to make Mandarin or Cantonese the official language of my family or anyone else's that I know, history shows that even a moderate sized, disciplined, all-volunteer force can generally more than hold it's own when outnumbered by conscripts, hell, 3 out of 5 people you meet around here practice some kind of military maneuvering of some sort just for the hell of it, and the US revolutionaries did write the book on modern guerilla warfare

I think that everyone should share Israel.  The Israelis have offered this to the Palestinians many a time, and they refused.  The Arabs want all of Israel for them selves and NO JEWS.

Jew Pride.