In any case, as previously stated... If push came to shove in the region, the whole world would probably come down like a sack of shit on China to stop them...
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
I disagree. US would, along w/ Australia and Britain. EU might condemn the action, but isn't going to go to war with a country like China on their home turf. India might come in, fearing Chinese agression, but Pakistan might then come in on China's side as an excuse to attack India. Nobody else would really care.
I don't think China really wants to outright attack anyone right now. At the moment, they're getting their economy in gear, and seem to be satisfied with torturing their citizens and poking fun at neighboring countries.
Uh......you do know that they only torture dissenters? Not that that makes it right, but it's not like the whole country has been turned into a giant tower of Londonunnamednewbie13 wrote:
to be satisfied with torturing their citizens
Poking fun? Many neighbouring countries are unantogonistic/nuetral. Other than Japan (and Taiwan depending on your view on it), China doesn't really care about it's neighbours.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
and poking fun at neighboring countries.
Either way, the US doesn't want to go to war either, which is what makes the situation so unpredictable. Neither country can really afford to go to war with the other, yet neither wishes to appear weak.
Which is exactly why nothing will happen the conversation is moot.
The conversation is about whether it is, not about what will happen to it.
um whatever have fun with it, cheers.
viva la revalucion! lol i heard about thoseshirts.comPekkaA wrote:
What about ever-cool che-guevara T-shirt?cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Shhhhh we dont want every1 to know my secretPekkaA wrote:
Heh, I get impression that cyborgs insight about communism comes from McCarthys ghost. Meaning that communism is a synonyme to everything evil and fearable.
commies arnt cool.
china does like to poke its neighbours a lot... especially taiwan...
china has enough forces by 2008 to make an attempt to invade taiwan... they would need more troops used in D-day, they cant use airborne since all their paratroop planes will be shot down by our missile defense. china might face taiwanese militia hiding in apartments... taiwan will turn to iraq... kind of
Except that Taiwan legally isn't a neighbour, as I've demonstrated. Which neighbours do they pole fun at (you'd probably know more about it than me)?cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
china does like to poke its neighbours a lot... especially taiwan...
Not likely, China wouldn't worry so much about world opinion, so they'd be much more free to take care of dissenters. That's not to say Taiwanese are less determined than Iraqis, just that the Chinese will be a lot more brutal in dealing with them.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
china has enough forces by 2008 to make an attempt to invade taiwan... they would need more troops used in D-day, they cant use airborne since all their paratroop planes will be shot down by our missile defense. china might face taiwanese militia hiding in apartments... taiwan will turn to iraq... kind of
well in this case if taiwan was considered part of china... china has pissed off quite a few neighbours... like tibet (if u condisder not part of china, imo its independant) and japan mainly. think soccer asia cup... when china was host, and japan won against china 3 to1, chinese spectators came in thousands and threw all kinds of things at the japanese players, coz they were japanese (think ww2), if in the olympics and they do sumthing like this to other atheletes, i think they might be banned from being host forever.Bubbalo wrote:
Except that Taiwan legally isn't a neighbour, as I've demonstrated. Which neighbours do they pole fun at (you'd probably know more about it than me)?cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
china does like to poke its neighbours a lot... especially taiwan...
well china would have to follow a couple rules of war ie not shooting civilians. otherwise the UN would be pissed, so would the US... but yeah i agree that china will be a lot brutal (havnt any asian country in war?) but a lot of taiwanese may go in hiding in the mountain ranges, which will be kinda like vietnam... jungle warfare.Bubbalo wrote:
Not likely, China wouldn't worry so much about world opinion, so they'd be much more free to take care of dissenters. That's not to say Taiwanese are less determined than Iraqis, just that the Chinese will be a lot more brutal in dealing with them.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
china has enough forces by 2008 to make an attempt to invade taiwan... they would need more troops used in D-day, they cant use airborne since all their paratroop planes will be shot down by our missile defense. china might face taiwanese militia hiding in apartments... taiwan will turn to iraq... kind of
Communism is a political ideology not an economic system.Flecco wrote:
How can a government be communist though? It is an economic policy... Which brings us back to exactly why Bubbalo keeps saying that China isn't communist....
You're probably confusing it because china recently adopted a capitalist economic system. It is kinda weird seeing how capitalism and socialism are opposing forces but it only came about because China's leaders feared an economic demise like the USSR. China's govt still promotes an egalitarian agrarian society in the countryside and is still very dictatorial so they are still communist. Its kinda a shame tho if the working class had just been a little more determined in Tienanmen they'd be democratic today, but then china would just be more competitive with the US so I'm not too broke up about it.
Except Tibet is a part of China, as it is an occupied territory. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Tibetan independence, only atm, it isn't independent.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well in this case if taiwan was considered part of china... china has pissed off quite a few neighbours... like tibet (if u condisder not part of china, imo its independant) and japan mainly. think soccer asia cup... when china was host, and japan won against china 3 to1, chinese spectators came in thousands and threw all kinds of things at the japanese players, coz they were japanese (think ww2), if in the olympics and they do sumthing like this to other atheletes, i think they might be banned from being host forever.
Except that they only need to make sure noone catches them killing civilians.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well china would have to follow a couple rules of war ie not shooting civilians. otherwise the UN would be pissed, so would the US... but yeah i agree that china will be a lot brutal (havnt any asian country in war?) but a lot of taiwanese may go in hiding in the mountain ranges, which will be kinda like vietnam... jungle warfare.
Only, no.easy-skanking wrote:
Communism is a political ideology not an economic system.
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-17 02:51:29)
Please read the Communist Mannifesto by Karl Marx, the bulk of it concerns a country's economy. Oh, and it not once says that a communist government has to be totalitarianistic/dictatorial. I suspect that Marx wanted communist governments to follow some sort of democratic model.easy-skanking wrote:
Communism is a political ideology not an economic system.Flecco wrote:
How can a government be communist though? It is an economic policy... Which brings us back to exactly why Bubbalo keeps saying that China isn't communist....
You're probably confusing it because china recently adopted a capitalist economic system. It is kinda weird seeing how capitalism and socialism are opposing forces but it only came about because China's leaders feared an economic demise like the USSR. China's govt still promotes an egalitarian agrarian society in the countryside and is still very dictatorial so they are still communist. Its kinda a shame tho if the working class had just been a little more determined in Tienanmen they'd be democratic today, but then china would just be more competitive with the US so I'm not too broke up about it.
It may be a political ideology, but it concerns a country's economy NOT secret police, tourture, inequality and the other results that seem to come about under the communist governments that have existed so far. Read the bloody book, it isn't hard to find a copy... It tells you exactly what a communist state should look like. China isn't communist, the USSR was never communist as it fell under the catergory of Bolshevism and Leninism, which were both obscure offshoots of Marxism, which itself was an offshoot of Marx's original idea of Communism which he did not acknowledge.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
I read it allready but thanks for assuming i havent and you know more than I.
I never said that Marx claimed that all communists governments are dictatorships feel free to stop putting words in my mouth.
The majority of the communist manifesto talks about establishing the working class as a ruling class a "dictatorship of the proletariat" Theres no need for conjecturing whether marx wanted a democratic model, he said plainly he intened for the working class to rule itself. While China and Russia may have never embodied exactly what Marx intended communism to be he is not the end all say all of socialist polictical systems. He wrote a very influential book but if China and Russia have socialist trends and call themselvs commies then arguing that they are stalinist leninist maoist etc is semantics.
The major point of communism / socialism is to have a classless society and it IS NOT solely nor mainly an economic structure. Go read some more commie books.
I never said that Marx claimed that all communists governments are dictatorships feel free to stop putting words in my mouth.
The majority of the communist manifesto talks about establishing the working class as a ruling class a "dictatorship of the proletariat" Theres no need for conjecturing whether marx wanted a democratic model, he said plainly he intened for the working class to rule itself. While China and Russia may have never embodied exactly what Marx intended communism to be he is not the end all say all of socialist polictical systems. He wrote a very influential book but if China and Russia have socialist trends and call themselvs commies then arguing that they are stalinist leninist maoist etc is semantics.
The major point of communism / socialism is to have a classless society and it IS NOT solely nor mainly an economic structure. Go read some more commie books.
Marx is the be all and end all of Communism, it's his idea. Socialism does not equal Communism. There is no such thing as Stalinism, and Leninism is hugely different to Communism. The reason people call themselves Communists is to attract the masses. To the best of my knowledge we have yet to see a true Communist state.
about killing civilians: US got satellites and stuff, spy planes to take pictures, surely they might get a glimpse of it. taiwan is a highly technologically advance country, there would be ppl hiding sumwhere taking pics w/ their digital camera and updload it on the internetBubbalo wrote:
Except Tibet is a part of China, as it is an occupied territory. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Tibetan independence, only atm, it isn't independent.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well in this case if taiwan was considered part of china... china has pissed off quite a few neighbours... like tibet (if u condisder not part of china, imo its independant) and japan mainly. think soccer asia cup... when china was host, and japan won against china 3 to1, chinese spectators came in thousands and threw all kinds of things at the japanese players, coz they were japanese (think ww2), if in the olympics and they do sumthing like this to other atheletes, i think they might be banned from being host forever.Except that they only need to make sure noone catches them killing civilians.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well china would have to follow a couple rules of war ie not shooting civilians. otherwise the UN would be pissed, so would the US... but yeah i agree that china will be a lot brutal (havnt any asian country in war?) but a lot of taiwanese may go in hiding in the mountain ranges, which will be kinda like vietnam... jungle warfare.Only, no.easy-skanking wrote:
Communism is a political ideology not an economic system.
Except that then they'd be in trouble for spying.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
about killing civilians: US got satellites and stuff, spy planes to take pictures, surely they might get a glimpse of it.
Good point. This would depend, however, on how good modern internet blocking tech is, as China is rapidly modernising their military, and have pretty good secret police.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
taiwan is a highly technologically advance country, there would be ppl hiding sumwhere taking pics w/ their digital camera and updload it on the internet
well US wont be in that much trouble if they dont get caughtBubbalo wrote:
Except that then they'd be in trouble for spying.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
about killing civilians: US got satellites and stuff, spy planes to take pictures, surely they might get a glimpse of it.Good point. This would depend, however, on how good modern internet blocking tech is, as China is rapidly modernising their military, and have pretty good secret police.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
taiwan is a highly technologically advance country, there would be ppl hiding sumwhere taking pics w/ their digital camera and updload it on the internet
china wont be able to block all contents... sum1 could upload some pics in imageshack and send it out on a forum . thats how easy it is, e-mails are too risky since they can get intercepted. tracking down the person by ip is even harder since ppl got router and gateway masks already.
To release photos and not get caught would be.........difficult, although not, I suppose, impossible.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well US wont be in that much trouble if they dont get caught
Not if China blocks the connection.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
china wont be able to block all contents... sum1 could upload some pics in imageshack and send it out on a forum . thats how easy it is, e-mails are too risky since they can get intercepted. tracking down the person by ip is even harder since ppl got router and gateway masks already.
If china even blocks connection, the media would be here. But if they invade the US will help...Bubbalo wrote:
To release photos and not get caught would be.........difficult, although not, I suppose, impossible.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well US wont be in that much trouble if they dont get caughtNot if China blocks the connection.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
china wont be able to block all contents... sum1 could upload some pics in imageshack and send it out on a forum . thats how easy it is, e-mails are too risky since they can get intercepted. tracking down the person by ip is even harder since ppl got router and gateway masks already.
Again, the media probably wouldn't be allowed. Personally, I'm not sure the US would help. The sheer number of troops required to take China on would require time to organise, by which time they may be having to invade Taiwan (to clarify, in the same way that Normandy was an invasion of France). If they got EU support they almost certainly would, which means the question becomes will the EU be willing to make a military commitment. Either way, I don't think China or the US will allow it to come to war.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
If china even blocks connection, the media would be here. But if they invade the US will help...
As to the person who gave me the -1: China does only torture dissenters, it's just that there's alot of them. Having said that, I do not condone said actions.
well if theres military action, as i said its gonna take china more troops that were used on D-Day. Taiwans got artiallary in kinmen aimed at where chinese ships will go through. and there would be cobras to patrol our waters.
They have that.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well if theres military action, as i said its gonna take china more troops that were used on D-Day.
2 million, but will suffer massive casualties, probly each taiwanese soldier that dies, theres 10 chinese...Bubbalo wrote:
They have that.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well if theres military action, as i said its gonna take china more troops that were used on D-Day.
But US will defitnantly help since they dont want chinese stealing some cobras for research... and they already copied the F16 (J10 is its counterpart, kinda) but since the US is a large trader w/ taiwan it will not let taiwan fall. if taiwan does fall into china's hands, say bye bye to motherboards, ram, GFX cards etc.
well if we rely on taiwan to play battlefield then we need to invade china asap