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2006-06-16 00:04:37
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956
ok KMT lost in the first place coz they were nazis (yes its true) and that the ccp had a hell lot of ppl. and for the last time china is a communist/socialist nation. they follow the ideas of marxism and communism. CCP= chinese communist party. does the word communist ring any bells? taiwan follows a democratic system where the ppl vote for the president, not the government chooses the president. the reason i say taiwan has its own president proves that we are more or less independant and not part of china
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2006-06-16 00:09:06
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7004|Dallas
Personally, I think that if China ever decided to forcibly take control of Taiwan, without help, Taiwan would be screwed.  Even though Taiwan may have home advantage, better equipment and better trained soldiers, I could see the Chinese using wave tactics much like Russians.  After a prolonged assault and/or siege and barricade, Taiwan would fall.

But I also believe that America would help.  They see the opportunity for another democratic nation in the Pacific so I don't think they would let the commies just stroll in and take it.  More than likely they would send troops to just "be" on the island, giving China a un-official, "you attack them you attack us" scenario's.  Whether China would back down or not....I can't say.

As far as Taiwan being independent now......well, I don't think China would kick up such a fuss if they were in fact "part of China" already.  They would simply send an assload of troops there and invoke martial law.  They haven't.  Also, I believe Taiwan purchased Cobra helicopters from the U.S. right?  I don't think the U.S. would have sold those if Taiwan belonged to China.
2006-06-16 00:09:45
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6801

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

ok KMT lost in the first place coz they were nazis (yes its true) and that the ccp had a hell lot of ppl.
Which he still had.  The only difference was Mao would have been on the defensive and Chiang on the offensive.  I also fail to see how the fact that they were Nazis (they weren't, btw, Nazis were a political party) has anything to do with anything.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

and for the last time china is a communist/socialist nation. they follow the ideas of marxism and communism.
No, they don't.  Wealth is not evenly distributed, and that is the core of Communism.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

CCP= chinese communist party. does the word communist ring any bells?
If something walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, and calls itself a dog, is it?

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

taiwan follows a democratic system where the ppl vote for the president, not the government chooses the president. the reason i say taiwan has its own president proves that we are more or less independant and not part of china
So does that mean if I declare tomorrow that my house is now it's own country, Bubbalotopia, and I am the president, Bubbalotopia is no longer a part of Australia?

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-16 00:10:38)

2006-06-16 00:16:53
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956
for ur bubbalotopia yeah it is... if u legally own the land and set up a government. but look at taiwan and china: we are 100km away from each other. 24million ppl in taiwan, i think thats enough ppl to make its own nation dont u think .

china is a communist nation, ask any1 w/ a 7th grade geography education would know china is communist.

cougar: u are right about that... the us might help since they want to spread democracy ever since after WW2. America would defitnantly help since there are a lot of americans here in taiwan, and the US dont want their citezens to be a pow and get interrogated
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2006-06-16 00:21:10
easy-skanking
Member
+43|6776
Taiwan wouldnt be a pushover they have a good amount of our previous generation equipment.

Every year or so the PRC shakes thier fist at Taiwan and talks some big talk. The problem being that ever since ww2 we supported Chang-Kai-Shek and Taiwan and throughout the cold war we saw Taiwan as our jumping point into China mainland in the event of a large scale war. The PRC allways backs off because they know the USA supports Taiwan and they don't know to what extent we will go to defend it. The United States has proven in previous encounters that we defend democracies againt communist aggresors.
2006-06-16 00:22:38
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6801

Cougar wrote:

As far as Taiwan being independent now......well, I don't think China would kick up such a fuss if they were in fact "part of China" already.  They would simply send an assload of troops there and invoke martial law.  They haven't.
Except that the US has hinted (but I don't think outrigh stated) that they would back Taiwan up, and China doesn't want a war with America.  Also, China's trying to watch it's image these days.

Cougar wrote:

Also, I believe Taiwan purchased Cobra helicopters from the U.S. right?  I don't think the U.S. would have sold those if Taiwan belonged to China.
Except that the official US stance is that Taiwan is not a nation.

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

100km away from each other.
So?  Hawaii's a long way away from America

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

24million ppl in taiwan, i think thats enough ppl to make its own nation dont u think wink.
Sure, but by that logic China is, what, over 100 individual countries?

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

china is a communist nation, ask any1 w/ a 7th grade geography education would know china is communist.
So, if we're asking geographers for political facts, who're we gonna ask for geography facts?  Economists?

easy-skanking wrote:

The United States has proven in previous encounters that we defend democracies againt communist aggresors.
Regardless of how corrupt they are

On a side not, were the Nationalists pro-Democracy or totalitarian?

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-16 00:24:04)

2006-06-16 00:24:03
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

easy-skanking wrote:

Taiwan wouldnt be a pushover they have a good amount of our previous generation equipment.

Every year or so the PRC shakes thier fist at Taiwan and talks some big talk. The problem being that ever since ww2 we supported Chang-Kai-Shek and Taiwan and throughout the cold war we saw Taiwan as our jumping point into China mainland in the event of a large scale war. The PRC allways backs off because they know the USA supports Taiwan and they don't know to what extent we will go to defend it. The United States has proven in previous encounters that we defend democracies againt communist aggresors.
thats what i love about americans ;) america wants to spread democracy all over the world. yeah during WW2 chiang got american weapons which he didnt do much w/... and chiang also got german/nazi weaponary in WW2
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2006-06-16 00:24:45
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6912|Colorado
Taiwan is our Cuba off of their shore, they will never forcibly take it back because it would make for bad business with us, would be like us trying to roll into cuba again.
2006-06-16 00:27:04
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

TrollmeaT wrote:

Taiwan is our Cuba off of their shore, they will never forcibly take it back because it would make for bad business with us, would be like us trying to roll into cuba again.
yeah kinda like that.

ive heard that maybe japan might help, since they are an ally of the US and can be like a first response. i see BF2 becoming real if china invades taiwan
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2006-06-16 00:27:58
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6801

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

and chiang also got german/nazi weaponary in WW2
According to whom?  Chiang was fighting the Japs, who were not allied to but not opposed to the Germans.

TrollmeaT wrote:

Taiwan is our Cuba off of their shore
There are huge differences.
2006-06-16 00:31:32
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6905|NT, like Mick Dundee

How many people saying that China is communist have read The Communist Mannifesto by Karl Marx? Come on, how many of you have?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2006-06-16 00:40:26
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7004|Dallas

Flecco wrote:

How many people saying that China is communist have read The Communist Mannifesto by Karl Marx? Come on, how many of you have?
True.  But also realize that the definition of "Communism" is has basically been changed.  Communism as Marx wrote it is one thing, but Communism as every country on Earth that has accepted it has practised it is a completly different term.

I beleve there are two Communism's.

Marx's Communism=Good
The Real Communism=Bad

Last edited by Cougar (2006-06-16 00:40:57)

2006-06-16 00:45:26
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6801
But, no.  Countries can practice variations on a theme (e.g. there are different types of democracies), but if they don't remain true to the core idea, they're practicing something else.  Just because China calls itself Communist doesn't mean it is.  It does encourage their people to support them.
2006-06-16 00:47:25
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6905|NT, like Mick Dundee

That is Bubbalo's point though Cougar...

The Communism the world has seen is totalitarianism calling itself something else... Not communism...

Hell, Chinese economic policy isn't entirely communist anymore either. They do alot of trading with us here in Australia.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2006-06-16 00:48:41
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

Flecco wrote:

That is Bubbalo's point though Cougar...

The Communism the world has seen is totalitarianism calling itself something else... Not communism...

Hell, Chinese economic policy isn't entirely communist anymore either. They do alot of trading with us here in Australia.
still commies. the economic policy allows free market now and private bussinesses. but the government itself is more totallitarian and communist...
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2006-06-16 00:53:24
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6905|NT, like Mick Dundee

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Flecco wrote:

That is Bubbalo's point though Cougar...

The Communism the world has seen is totalitarianism calling itself something else... Not communism...

Hell, Chinese economic policy isn't entirely communist anymore either. They do alot of trading with us here in Australia.
still commies. the economic policy allows free market now and private bussinesses. but the government itself is more totallitarian and communist...
How can a government be communist though? It is an economic policy... Which brings us back to exactly why Bubbalo keeps saying that China isn't communist....
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2006-06-16 00:56:29
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

Flecco wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Flecco wrote:

That is Bubbalo's point though Cougar...

The Communism the world has seen is totalitarianism calling itself something else... Not communism...

Hell, Chinese economic policy isn't entirely communist anymore either. They do alot of trading with us here in Australia.
still commies. the economic policy allows free market now and private bussinesses. but the government itself is more totallitarian and communist...
How can a government be communist though? It is an economic policy... Which brings us back to exactly why Bubbalo keeps saying that China isn't communist....
how about totalitarian?
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2006-06-16 01:03:05
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6801

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

how about totalitarian?
Oh hell yeah.
2006-06-16 01:14:50
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

Bubbalo wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

how about totalitarian?
Oh hell yeah.
so ccp should be called the CTP? that would be awsome but most communist countries (russia during the stalin era) was more totalitarian. so i dont wanna be a totalitarian
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2006-06-16 03:58:58
buttersIRL
Member
+17|6837
the way I thought is was is this:

China consider Taiwan a part of china and under china's rule but don't want to interfer much with taiwan because in the 80's 90's taiwan was the business gateway to the rest of the world (remember every toy was MADE IN TAIWAN), so they don't want to risk fucking all that up by imposing too much communist rule.  but if push came to shove they won't be afraid to impose anything they want on the courty.
2006-06-16 04:21:12
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7004|Dallas

Flecco wrote:

That is Bubbalo's point though Cougar...

The Communism the world has seen is totalitarianism calling itself something else... Not communism...

Hell, Chinese economic policy isn't entirely communist anymore either. They do alot of trading with us here in Australia.

Bubbalo wrote:

But, no.  Countries can practice variations on a theme (e.g. there are different types of democracies), but if they don't remain true to the core idea, they're practicing something else.  Just because China calls itself Communist doesn't mean it is.  It does encourage their people to support them.
Right, and I totally agree with you guys on that.  My point is, I guess, kinda like trucks and cars.
2006-06-16 04:22:22
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

buttersIRL wrote:

the way I thought is was is this:

China consider Taiwan a part of china and under china's rule but don't want to interfer much with taiwan because in the 80's 90's taiwan was the business gateway to the rest of the world (remember every toy was MADE IN TAIWAN), so they don't want to risk fucking all that up by imposing too much communist rule.  but if push came to shove they won't be afraid to impose anything they want on the courty.
pretty much thats it, but china wanted taiwan since the days of deng xiou ping. during the 70s china did try to invade taiwan by taking air supiroirity. which they failed miserably.
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2006-06-16 11:35:15
PekkaA
Member
+36|6904|Finland
Heh, I get impression that cyborgs insight about communism comes from McCarthys ghost. Meaning that communism is a synonyme to everything evil and fearable.
2006-06-16 11:38:15
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6956

PekkaA wrote:

Heh, I get impression that cyborgs insight about communism comes from McCarthys ghost. Meaning that communism is a synonyme to everything evil and fearable.
Shhhhh we dont want every1 to know my secret

commies arnt cool.
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2006-06-16 11:48:25
PekkaA
Member
+36|6904|Finland

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

PekkaA wrote:

Heh, I get impression that cyborgs insight about communism comes from McCarthys ghost. Meaning that communism is a synonyme to everything evil and fearable.
Shhhhh we dont want every1 to know my secret

commies arnt cool.
What about ever-cool che-guevara T-shirt?

 

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