The Jews didn't have a right to steal Palestine. The way in which Israel was created showed that the Zionists were not interested in justice, merely their wellbeing.
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-15 04:28:50)
Poll
Is Iran's President Ahmadinejad a new Adolf Hitler?
| Yes, the similarities are way too obvious | 28% | 28% - 47 | ||||
| No, that Guy's just another crazy SOB | 45% | 45% - 76 | ||||
| WTF is Ahmadinejad? | 25% | 25% - 43 | ||||
| Total: 166 | ||||||
well juhdaism was founded in jerusilim... and it was a jewish city, so i think they should at least have some rights to create israelBubbalo wrote:
The Jews didn't have a right to steal Palestine. The way in which Israel was created showed that the Zionists were not interested in justice, merely their wellbeing.
I read the interview. I don't think he is the new Hitler. He does it in a very obtuse way, but he is questioning why scholars from Arab nations have been refused access to information regarding the Holocaust. In a round about way he is saying, "we won't take second hand information, we want to research it ourselves" I think the subject has been well researched and document and the findings are quite clear to all. BUT, continuing the trend of suspicion against the west, Ahmadinejad is trying to highlight this fact. He should put up and shut up about the Holocaust, he is doing himself and his nation no favors with this. Apart from this, in the few interviews and letter to Bush Ive read, I think he is obviously intelligent articulate man. He puts his and his nation point of view forward very well IMO.
We must remember that the middle east has its own traditions, history and laws that developed over thousands of years with minimal interference from the west. Now in the last 100 years we have been over their interfering. The crusades past and present, Instigating overthrows of elected governments, covert CIA/MI5 medaling,dragging them into ww1 & 2, installation of puppet governments, displacement of millions of Palestinians..............the list goes on.
Ahmadinejad is therefore suspicious of anything coming from predominately Christen scholars through the years. I think I'm the first person to try and explain why Ahmadinejad is questioning the Holocaust, so ill sit back and watch the neg karma fly!!
We must remember that the middle east has its own traditions, history and laws that developed over thousands of years with minimal interference from the west. Now in the last 100 years we have been over their interfering. The crusades past and present, Instigating overthrows of elected governments, covert CIA/MI5 medaling,dragging them into ww1 & 2, installation of puppet governments, displacement of millions of Palestinians..............the list goes on.
Ahmadinejad is therefore suspicious of anything coming from predominately Christen scholars through the years. I think I'm the first person to try and explain why Ahmadinejad is questioning the Holocaust, so ill sit back and watch the neg karma fly!!
JahMan: Do you have a copy in English, or do you read German?
Oh, great. Native American religion/spirituality was found in America. How about they run around killing Anglo Saxons till you all run to Canada and Mexico? That's what happened in Palestine.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
well juhdaism was founded in jerusilim... and it was a jewish city, so i think they should at least have some rights to create israel
You have got to be f*cking kidding me! How about we take a look at a map of how it was divided. How is it fair the Israel gets the larger segment when the Palestinians were there first? In fact, how is it far the Israel was even created when the Palestinians had been trying to get freedom since before WWII? Who wants to have a guess at who comprised the earliest terrorist groups in the Middle East? That's right, Jews. They went around slaughtering Palestinians to scare them off (not all of them mind you, I'm not trying to paint Jews out as a race of bloodthirsty maniacs). And then Israel whines when Palestinians start blowing them up? Fucking assholes.Negative Karma Comment wrote:
It wasn't stolen. It was corrected due to the British f-up in dividing the land. Jews and Palestinians were both to have their own states, however Palestine got greedy and wanted it all.
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-15 05:29:25)
Of course the Jews had their wellbeing on the top of their interests. That's the whole point in the creation of Israel.Bubbalo wrote:
The Jews didn't have a right to steal Palestine. The way in which Israel was created showed that the Zionists were not interested in justice, merely their wellbeing.
Please explain yourself. What exactly in the creation of the state is an expression of injustice?
I personally think Ahmadinejad knows the Holocaust has occurred. I mean, one must be completely crazy or stupid not to acknowledge the facts. Then again, he IS a nutcase. If he admits the Holocaust did , in fact, took place, it would be like indirectly accepting the moral right of the Jewish people to have a state. That is why he tries he's best to undermine the facts.JahManRed wrote:
Ahmadinejad is therefore suspicious of anything coming from predominately Christen scholars through the years. I think I'm the first person to try and explain why Ahmadinejad is questioning the Holocaust
The part where they went around killing the Palestinians to scare them away. Or did you think the Palestinians went to live in refugee camps for a holiday?QuestionMark wrote:
Please explain yourself. What exactly in the creation of the state is an expression of injustice?
turn it all to glass for all i care, anyone who uses faith as a tool, or a justification is a twat.
Its not like the herd couldnt do with a good 'thinning' anyway.
Its not like the herd couldnt do with a good 'thinning' anyway.
Bubbalo the interview is here-----> http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=27669
A Palestinian attempt to gain Independence prior to WWII has never occurred. Both sides, as a whole, accepted the British mandate over the land because they knew the conditions were not fit to create an independent state. That was true up until the end of WWII. From that point onward, there was a surge of nationalistic feelings on both sides, that drove the region into turmoil.Bubbalo wrote:
You have got to be f*cking kidding me! How about we take a look at a [url=http://www.issues2000.org/images/Israel_Map.gif]map[/i] of how it was divided. How is it fair the Israel gets the larger segment when the Palestinians were there first? In fact, how is it far the Israel was even created when the Palestinians had been trying to get freedom since before WWII? Who wants to have a guess at who comprised the earliest terrorist groups in the Middle East? That's right, Jews. They went around slaughtering Palestinians to scare them off (not all of them mind you, I'm not trying to paint Jews out as a race of bloodthirsty maniacs). And then Israel whines when Palestinians start blowing them up? Fucking assholes.
The first major act of terrorism was actually done by the Arabs in 1921. An Arab mob inflamed by the Muslim religious figures, has murdered nearly 50 people while trying to overrun Jewish villages and cities. The Jewish defenders have always supported passive defense over an active one. That means that they didn't initiate actions against the Arabs. Later on, in the late 40's, when passive defense failed to stop the Arab violence, the Jews started initiating pinpoint actions to stop the ongoing assaults. That is what you mistakingly call "scaring Palestinians."
I think you better get your info straight.
There were what one might regard as 'terrorist' factions on both sides, although I disagree with the term 'terrorist' in most instances - it is a word whose definition is too easily misinterpreted or twisted. What occurred in 1948, whether by design or by accident, was the near total 'ethnic cleansing' of arabs from that region of the middle east. That to me is a crime. These people were civilians. Sure, there were militants among them but that doesn't excuse such collective punishment. If there is only one thing that Ahmedinejad said that makes sense it's this: that Europe should have paid the price for their mistreatment of the Jews, not the Arabs. German borders were very casually but dramatically redrawn after WWII. Maybe there could have been room for a Jewish homeland between Germany and Poland.QuestionMark wrote:
A Palestinian attempt to gain Independence prior to WWII has never occurred. Both sides, as a whole, accepted the British mandate over the land because they knew the conditions were not fit to create an independent state. That was true up until the end of WWII. From that point onward, there was a surge of nationalistic feelings on both sides, that drove the region into turmoil.Bubbalo wrote:
You have got to be f*cking kidding me! How about we take a look at a [url=http://www.issues2000.org/images/Israel_Map.gif]map[/i] of how it was divided. How is it fair the Israel gets the larger segment when the Palestinians were there first? In fact, how is it far the Israel was even created when the Palestinians had been trying to get freedom since before WWII? Who wants to have a guess at who comprised the earliest terrorist groups in the Middle East? That's right, Jews. They went around slaughtering Palestinians to scare them off (not all of them mind you, I'm not trying to paint Jews out as a race of bloodthirsty maniacs). And then Israel whines when Palestinians start blowing them up? Fucking assholes.
The first major act of terrorism was actually done by the Arabs in 1921. An Arab mob inflamed by the Muslim religious figures, has murdered nearly 50 people while trying to overrun Jewish villages and cities. The Jewish defenders have always supported passive defense over an active one. That means that they didn't initiate actions against the Arabs. Later on, in the late 40's, when passive defense failed to stop the Arab violence, the Jews started initiating pinpoint actions to stop the ongoing assaults. That is what you mistakingly call "scaring Palestinians."
I think you better get your info straight.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-15 06:13:43)
What happened in 1948 is definitely not what you call "ethnic cleansing". The Arab population emigrated to other Arab countries because they didn't want to get in the middle of the fighting. They thought that it will all be over in a few months. They didn't, of course, expect an Israeli victory over 6 Arab armies, so they left with the absolute knowledge that they will return soon. That didn't happen. Arabs were not the only ones to leave the region, by the way. Many Jews who weren't committed to the Zionist cause, left too in fear for their life. I admit that some splinter faction of the main Jewish defense force, committed unforgivable crimes against the Palestinians, but it wasn't a policy, as you probably implied. Those acts, hastened the emigration to other Arab countries. It is important to note that the Jewish agency (the body leading the Jews in Israel at the time) condemned those acts and deemed them "Inhumane and Barbaric".CameronPoe wrote:
There were what one might regard as 'terrorist' factions on both sides, although I disagree with the term 'terrorist' in most instances - it is a word whose definition is too easily misinterpreted or twisted. What occurred in 1948, whether by design or by accident, was the near total 'ethnic cleansing' of Arabs from that region of the middle east. That to me is a crime. These people were civilians. Sure, there were militants among them but that doesn't excuse such collective punishment. If there is only one thing that Ahmedinejad said that makes sense it's this: that Europe should have paid the price for their mistreatment of the Jews, not the Arabs. German borders were very casually but dramatically redrawn after WWII. Maybe there could have been room for a Jewish homeland between Germany and Poland.
bobalo you take one line that suits you from a 24 page post. Move on.
I said before, Palestinians can't even run their own shitty government, and you expect them to run a state?
I think people in the Middle East are hating on Israel because they turned a shithole into a paradise, and now the arabs want it. If the Israelis were running around like backwater camel herders, nobody would pay them any mind.
Arabs are still bitter over getting their asses handed to them 50 years ago.
I think people in the Middle East are hating on Israel because they turned a shithole into a paradise, and now the arabs want it. If the Israelis were running around like backwater camel herders, nobody would pay them any mind.
Arabs are still bitter over getting their asses handed to them 50 years ago.
the palestinians cant run their shitty government because they are living in a ghetto.Erkut.hv wrote:
I said before, Palestinians can't even run their own shitty government, and you expect them to run a state?
I think people in the Middle East are hating on Israel because they turned a shithole into a paradise, and now the arabs want it. If the Israelis were running around like backwater camel herders, nobody would pay them any mind.
Arabs are still bitter over getting their asses handed to them 50 years ago.
Arafat lived in a ghetto huh? Check his bank account, er, rather his wife's now.herrr_smity wrote:
the palestinians cant run their shitty government because they are living in a ghetto.Erkut.hv wrote:
I said before, Palestinians can't even run their own shitty government, and you expect them to run a state?
I think people in the Middle East are hating on Israel because they turned a shithole into a paradise, and now the arabs want it. If the Israelis were running around like backwater camel herders, nobody would pay them any mind.
Arabs are still bitter over getting their asses handed to them 50 years ago.
OT: Someone wished my family would die of colon cancer... lol, and -1'd me. At least leave a name.
I think the people in the middle east hate Israel because the foundation of that state threw millions of arabs from their homes. It also means that the third holiest shrnie in Islam is effectively under Jewish control. Further actions taking by successive governments haven't made them any more likable to arabs either - annexing the Golan heights, invading Lebanon, the Sabra & Shatila massacre, the building of illegal settlements on Palestinian land, the building of a rudd great wall dividing not just Israelis from Palestinians, but Palestinians from Palestinians.Erkut.hv wrote:
I said before, Palestinians can't even run their own shitty government, and you expect them to run a state?
I think people in the Middle East are hating on Israel because they turned a shithole into a paradise, and now the arabs want it. If the Israelis were running around like backwater camel herders, nobody would pay them any mind.
Arabs are still bitter over getting their asses handed to them 50 years ago.
Israel is no paradise - it is like very other country - it has both good and bad. Do you think that there is no such thing as poverty in Israel or something?
PS In response to your further post: Arafat lived in a ghetto the likes of which you can't imagine for the last few years of his life, confined to his headquarters in Ramallah (effectively under house arrest). Fat lot of good his bank balance would do him trapped there.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-15 07:22:54)
The people of palestine are living in a ghetto, if you cant see that then you are truly blindErkut.hv wrote:
Arafat lived in a ghetto huh? Check his bank account, er, rather his wife's now.herrr_smity wrote:
the palestinians cant run their shitty government because they are living in a ghetto.Erkut.hv wrote:
I said before, Palestinians can't even run their own shitty government, and you expect them to run a state?
I think people in the Middle East are hating on Israel because they turned a shithole into a paradise, and now the arabs want it. If the Israelis were running around like backwater camel herders, nobody would pay them any mind.
Arabs are still bitter over getting their asses handed to them 50 years ago.
OT: Someone wished my family would die of colon cancer... lol, and -1'd me. At least leave a name.
The notion that the Palestinians are living in a "ghetto" is misleading. Israel has deployed roadblocks throughout the West Bank to stop possible terrorists from infiltrating Israel. Yes, it does limit the Palestinians in some areas but it isn't without a reason. Israel concluded (rightfully so, IMO) that the life of Israeli citizens is more important than the free motion of Palestinians. When human life is in the balance, it outweighs everything.
The fact that the Temple Mount compound is under Israeli sovereignty, is the only reason you were able to take that picture in your sig. If it were up to the Muslims, they would have restricted entrance to the site for Muslims only, just like they did in Mecca and Meddina. The compound itself in under the control of the Muslim "Wakf". They have the authority to run the place, so it's not exactly under "Jewish control". The only Israeli presence in there is the police outpost near the entrance gate. That, of course, didn't bother some punked-ass Arabs from snatching my $300 camera right in their "third most holiest shrine".CameronPoe wrote:
I think the people in the middle east hate Israel because the foundation of that state threw millions of arabs from their homes. It also means that the third holiest shrnie in Islam is effectively under Jewish control. Further actions taking by successive governments haven't made them any more likable to arabs either - annexing the Golan heights, invading Lebanon, the Sabra & Shatila massacre, the building of illegal settlements on Palestinian land, the building of a rudd great wall dividing not just Israelis from Palestinians, but Palestinians from Palestinians.
It may not be strictly under 'Jewish control' but they can restrict access to the compound at will, as occurred while I was there. I had to come back each day I was in Jerusalem to see whether they had lifted the restrictions until one day they let us through. So it isn't exactly the Wakf calling the shots. I take your point on the fact that I may not have been allowed access if it were under full Palestinian control but you have to respect the rules and regulations of any country you are visiting.QuestionMark wrote:
The fact that the Temple Mount compound is under Israeli sovereignty, is the only reason you were able to take that picture in your sig. If it were up to the Muslims, they would have restricted entrance to the site for Muslims only, just like they did in Mecca and Meddina. The compound itself in under the control of the Muslim "Wakf". They have the authority to run the place, so it's not exactly under "Jewish control". The only Israeli presence in there is the police outpost near the entrance gate. That, of course, didn't bother some punked-ass Arabs from snatching my $300 camera right in their "third most holiest shrine".CameronPoe wrote:
I think the people in the middle east hate Israel because the foundation of that state threw millions of arabs from their homes. It also means that the third holiest shrnie in Islam is effectively under Jewish control. Further actions taking by successive governments haven't made them any more likable to arabs either - annexing the Golan heights, invading Lebanon, the Sabra & Shatila massacre, the building of illegal settlements on Palestinian land, the building of a rudd great wall dividing not just Israelis from Palestinians, but Palestinians from Palestinians.
If my history serves my correctly Alexander Hamilton was killed by Aron Burr less then 900meters from where I sit now. This is nothing the Palestinians have a corner on. menacum began (sp) blew up some hotels himself did he not ?
I am told that the west bank is the most densely populated spot on earth and israel does its police work there with Apache Gunships, Imagine if the NYPD to a Cobra up to Harleem for a Work out. Look at a map of Palestine before and after 1947 if you want to see what the fuss is about.
I am told that the west bank is the most densely populated spot on earth and israel does its police work there with Apache Gunships, Imagine if the NYPD to a Cobra up to Harleem for a Work out. Look at a map of Palestine before and after 1947 if you want to see what the fuss is about.
Actually, the West Bank is relatively empty. If you go there you'll mostly see stony hills with isolated villages here and there. You were probably referring to the Gaza Strip. The reason Israel is using helicopters to eliminate terrorist leaders and activists, is because it is the only way to stop them with minimal loss of life, for both sides. The other alternative is to have a full scale invasion each time a terrorist wants to carry out a suicide attack. I think you will agree with me that Israel has a right to defend itself, and this is the best way.Horseman 77 wrote:
If my history serves my correctly Alexander Hamilton was killed by Aron Burr less then 900meters from where I sit now. This is nothing the Palestinians have a corner on. menacum began (sp) blew up some hotels himself did he not ?
I am told that the west bank is the most densely populated spot on earth and israel does its police work there with Apache Gunships, Imagine if the NYPD to a Cobra up to Harleem for a Work out. Look at a map of Palestine before and after 1947 if you want to see what the fuss is about.
Also, I didn't quite get how is Alexander Hamilton is relevant to the subject.
let me guess you are a right right right right wing christian.QuestionMark wrote:
Actually, the West Bank is relatively empty. If you go there you'll mostly see stony hills with isolated villages here and there. You were probably referring to the Gaza Strip. The reason Israel is using helicopters to eliminate terrorist leaders and activists, is because it is the only way to stop them with minimal loss of life, for both sides. The other alternative is to have a full scale invasion each time a terrorist wants to carry out a suicide attack. I think you will agree with me that Israel has a right to defend itself, and this is the best way.Horseman 77 wrote:
If my history serves my correctly Alexander Hamilton was killed by Aron Burr less then 900meters from where I sit now. This is nothing the Palestinians have a corner on. menacum began (sp) blew up some hotels himself did he not ?
I am told that the west bank is the most densely populated spot on earth and israel does its police work there with Apache Gunships, Imagine if the NYPD to a Cobra up to Harleem for a Work out. Look at a map of Palestine before and after 1947 if you want to see what the fuss is about.
Also, I didn't quite get how is Alexander Hamilton is relevant to the subject.
israel is a state that hasn't complied to a single UN resolution, they are moving its own citizens to occupied territory, they developed nuclear weapon secretly without any problems from the international community, they have assassinated people in other countries (including my own). they are a state that exists thanks to ww2.
To Bubbalo - in response to a karma neg -
You obviously didn't appreciate the fact that I enclosed the term terrorist in inverted commas. I don't agree with the term terrorist to begin with anyway. Read things a little more carefully in future.
You obviously didn't appreciate the fact that I enclosed the term terrorist in inverted commas. I don't agree with the term terrorist to begin with anyway. Read things a little more carefully in future.
One more thing few people seem aware of is water rights in israel Palestine. It pretty tuff to farm in that area when you cant irragate. Guess who controls the water supply. Its interesting to see satellite photos of israeli and Palestinian land if you know who is in what Zone. Some land is lush Green, some is scorched Brown.