ok retard then why was there a tape from bin laden himself released not but maybe 2 to 4 weeks ago?schakl wrote:
I think Bin Laden is dead for quite a while and US just 'keep him alive' to be able to keep freedom low.
Also Bin Laden is not the problem. If you kill the leader the next one will pop up. There is a social problem which 'generates' such people.
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Ps Freedom isn't " LOW " here.
exactly why i almost never post in debate and serious talk anymore... unless its to poke fun.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't really get where you're coming from with that comment. I only need to listen to the kind of drivel that comes out of some the posters on this forum to come to my conclusion.lowing wrote:
you watch too many movies.CameronPoe wrote:
Exactly. To fight the cause rather the effect would be more effective in the long run. Americans rarely understand this. It's generally a case of 'Yeehaw we blew dem sons o' bitches inta next week. Wooo! USA! USA! USA!". Honest Question: Do ye hawks really think US military action against them will change them or make them stop? Get real.
not much debate going on, just mules bunting empty heads.
tsk... tsk....Major_Spittle wrote:
Boy isn't this dumb and dumber. Touchy feely you must first walk in their shoes and find away to appease them BS. They are RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISTS THAT CUT OFF PEOPLES HEADS IN GODS NAME, put some cream on that itch.CameronPoe wrote:
Exactly. To fight the cause rather the effect would be more effective in the long run. Americans rarely understand this. It's generally a case of 'Yeehaw we blew dem sons o' bitches inta next week. Wooo! USA! USA! USA!". Honest Question: Do ye hawks really think US military action against them will change them or make them stop? Get real.Spearhead wrote:
Well, if I have an itch, I usually put cream on it. Meaning, I don't completely ignore it, but I fight against the itch in another way, instead of with pure force.
To fight the cause vs effect???? WTF do you want to do, parachute Mormons into the middle east to convert the region, oh wait Christians are worse in your opinion. Gee, maybe by taking out governments that allow sanctuary for terrorists and instating Democracys you are getting at the root cause of Islamic Terrorist. (oh, but that is just forcing Democracy on people and we can't do that, nor bomb them, nor occupy the country and protect citizens from terrorist........) Nothing will please you Libs in you warm fuzzy place unless a Dem. does it.
Fact of the matter is that if a Democracy stands in Iraq and people start exercising their rights and become educate, get freedom of religion (or freedom FROM religion) things will turn around in that region and Democracy will spread and Islamic rule will die out like the Monacracys of Europe did.
This is what Bush is trying, now you tell me your great plan of fighting the cause of Terrorism. Because the simple facts of what is going on in Iraq with this war is obviously beyond your comprehension if you think the US is "itching to hard" or "just our hunting terrorist without a plan".
Quick run and hide, someone stated facts that show how stupid you two are.
I never realised you were in the CIA. Your insights are most enlightening. Shouldn't you be keeping sensitive information like that in the strictest confidence?Horseman 77 wrote:
Apparently the Command structure ( if you can call it that ) has had a 40% Casualty rate so far. It is a fact that the New Cadre of leaders, doesn't have the experience, lacks the necessary connections and supporters are less willing to supply them with money as many " Loyal jihadist " simply disappear with the cash once funded.
Its the best you can do as we are not going to give Palestinians their land back.
Germany without Hitler didn't fold up like France Spain or Italy but it was a big blow to the Hard core Nazis Especially the ones who went over to guerrilla warfare after the End of Major combat ( ahem ) And a huge boost to the allied cause. Anyone who doesn't see this is in serous denial. It also makes me wonder what their actual desires are in the area.
PS isn't the Fantan based on the Mig 21 ( licensed copy ) ? Didn't the Chinese make it for export in the 70 and 80 s? Just wondering
Also I didn't realise you were Israeli. You're not going the give the Palestinians their land back? Welll at least you conceded that it's their land.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-14 01:47:47)
see.. leave a comment and the response is negative karma... im hurt... that proves your a great debater and have such superior intellect to me that i can not even comprehend it.
I'm curious as to how Horseman can make comparisons between the Third Reich and modern terrorists. Given how they're, y'know, completely different on so many levels.
because the fact that he inserts differnt comparisons in his posts makes him feel as if he is having relevent posts. Weather or not he is actually saying anything.
They are both fanatical devoted enemy's in an all out war.Bubbalo wrote:
I'm curious as to how Horseman can make comparisons between the Third Reich and modern terrorists. Given how they're, y'know, completely different on so many levels.
Weapons are similar in many cases.
They were both Forces to be reckoned with and taken seriously,
not dismissed lightly like we did from 1992 to 2000 ( that cost us as 1930s appeasement cost Europe )
They are completely different regions, terrains ( in some cases ), ideologies and tactics but there are useful parallels though. Even the basic stuff you seem to miss. Sometimes I think you try and appear confused because other times you seem lucid. Why do you put on this " I don't get it ? " act ?
Just curious.
Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-06-14 16:57:28)
I drew a parallel I felt was relevant. You are entitled to your opinion, thats about it.Nicholas Lang don wrote:
because the fact that he inserts different comparisons in his posts makes him feel as if he is having relevant posts. Weather or not he is actually saying anything.
There's a lot you don't get.Horseman 77 wrote:
They are both fanatical devoted enemy's in an all out war.Bubbalo wrote:
I'm curious as to how Horseman can make comparisons between the Third Reich and modern terrorists. Given how they're, y'know, completely different on so many levels.
Weapons are similar in many cases.
They were both Forces to be reckoned with and taken seriously,
not dismissed lightly like we did from 1992 to 2000 ( that cost us as 1930s appeasement cost Europe )
They are completely different regions, terrains ( in some cases ), ideologies and tactics but there are useful parallels though. Even the basic stuff you seem to miss. Sometimes I think you try and appear confused because other times you seem lucid. Why do you put on this " I don't get it ? " act ?
Just curious.
For one, you seemed to miss this, all soldiers of the Third Reich were not fanatical (with the main exception being the SS, but even they surrendered peacefully often times). With the modern day war on terror, you'll find that every member of the fanatical extremists is hell bent on destroying America and western civilization, even at the cost of their own lives, which is obvious because their main tactic is suicide bombing. This difference alone shows that World War Two and the War on Terror must be fought with very, VERY different tactics.
There's much more, too, but that's all I'm going to say
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-06-14 17:26:11)
Thanks I did not miss this however. Not every Iraqi is an insurgent. Not everyone supports the insurgency just as not everyone supports the coalition. Some just want Foreigners out period.
What percentage of Iraqis Whole heartedly support the insurgency in your opinion ?
Also
Don't you think there were a lot less Die Hard Fanatical Nazis ( After ) Hitler checked out?
I am not sure everyone will see the parallel here lol
What percentage of Iraqis Whole heartedly support the insurgency in your opinion ?
Also
Don't you think there were a lot less Die Hard Fanatical Nazis ( After ) Hitler checked out?
I am not sure everyone will see the parallel here lol
Sorry but it has been in the news daily and its pretty easy to keep track of is it not.CameronPoe wrote:
I never realised you were in the CIA. Your insights are most enlightening. Shouldn't you be keeping sensitive information like that in the strictest confidence?Horseman 77 wrote:
Apparently the Command structure ( if you can call it that ) has had a 40% Casualty rate so far. It is a fact that the New Cadre of leaders, doesn't have the experience, lacks the necessary connections and supporters are less willing to supply them with money as many " Loyal jihadist " simply disappear with the cash once funded.
Its the best you can do as we are not going to give Palestinians their land back.
Germany without Hitler didn't fold up like France Spain or Italy but it was a big blow to the Hard core Nazis Especially the ones who went over to guerrilla warfare after the End of Major combat ( ahem ) And a huge boost to the allied cause. Anyone who doesn't see this is in serous denial. It also makes me wonder what their actual desires are in the area.
PS isn't the Fantan based on the Mig 21 ( licensed copy ) ? Didn't the Chinese make it for export in the 70 and 80 s? Just wondering
Also I didn't realise you were Israeli. You're not going the give the Palestinians their land back? Welll at least you conceded that it's their land.
I realize you are new to the Forums so you have no Idea what I am about or for that matter where I live.
By that same token I have no Idea where you get your hatred from.
The USA was not alone in putting Northern European War refugees on Arab land in the region called formally called Palestine. Its obvious you haven't a clue what my stance is on the issue.
Well, the situation is a much more complex one than in most other wars. It's more of an occupation, which it really is. One of the main differences with post war Iraq and post war Germany is the existence of a government and stable society. Current day Iraq can be described as an anarchy and civil war, where as post-war Germany had a much more stable society and was not in the process of a civil war. But as far as your points, I agree. Though it is still a much different situation than in World War 2.Horseman 77 wrote:
Thanks I did not miss this however. Not every Iraqi is an insurgent. Not everyone supports the insurgency just as not everyone supports the coalition. Some just want Foreigners out period.
What percentage of Iraqis Whole heartedly support the insurgency in your opinion ?
Also
Don't you think there were a lot less Die Hard Fanatical Nazis ( After ) Hitler checked out?
I am not sure everyone will see the parallel here lol
As far as the Die Hard Fanatical Nazis, some fought to the death, knowing they would be arrested or executed after the war, once they knew defeat was imminent, some were executed, some were arrested, and the rest "forgot" their allegance to Hitler, lying about their Fanatical Nazism so they could return to society, never to mention it again. All "Die Hard" Fanatical Nazis were either killed or captured. Otherwise they were not "Die Hard". So yes, I'm agreeing with you there. But again you are comparing to completely different events and times. The Iraq occupation is much more complex than the Germany occupation was. I'm not really sure what your trying to explain here, and I don't mean any offense, are you comparing the Fanatical Nazis and Hitler with the insurgency and Saddam Hussein? If you're not, than I agree with your post, it makes a lot of sense.
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-06-14 18:57:37)
The Downside- someone will have to go out and buy more bullets.
Do you really wish to debate the Meaning of the slang Term " Hard core "
I think not, let me put it this way. Were more Germans behind Hitler when the Luftwaffe Ruled the Skies or When B17s flew over the Reich with impunity and Allied tanks rolled through Berlin?
If the insurgents were secure in the belief the rank and file every day Iraqi stood by them they wouldn't have to fight us. They could wait us out and walk into power anytime they wanted. This is a region they can ill afford to lose power in. If they are pushed out they will never get it back.
and still it went from
a conventional Ground war
to a guerrilla war
to a Rash of suicide bombers
to Roadside bombs that kill more Iraqis than Coalition forces by a 10:1 ratio.
This isn't making them well liked by the natives.
I think not, let me put it this way. Were more Germans behind Hitler when the Luftwaffe Ruled the Skies or When B17s flew over the Reich with impunity and Allied tanks rolled through Berlin?
If the insurgents were secure in the belief the rank and file every day Iraqi stood by them they wouldn't have to fight us. They could wait us out and walk into power anytime they wanted. This is a region they can ill afford to lose power in. If they are pushed out they will never get it back.
and still it went from
a conventional Ground war
to a guerrilla war
to a Rash of suicide bombers
to Roadside bombs that kill more Iraqis than Coalition forces by a 10:1 ratio.
This isn't making them well liked by the natives.
Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-06-15 12:07:27)
Humanity needs opposition to progress. The end of the cold war was the worst thing that could have happened to us. With the exception of some hot spots (Yeah, ok - Vietnam was a little more than a hot spot) there was no open fighting between the main opponents in the fight. In the vaccum left by that, we've been floundering since trying to create opponents to "square off" against. The cold war lead to some of the most revolutionary technological advances of the century, and certainly marked dramatic advances in every front. It's like AIDS or cancer - we can cure it, but something else WILL take its place, and it will be uglier, less discriminant, and harder to deal with. Malthusian Theory in action. As was stated early on in this thread, someone else will replace Osama - be it of their own volition or because we (US) villifies them. <shrug> c'est la vive ... or whatever.
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