BF2S Forums Do you think that US Soldiers like killing people, seriously?

Reciprocity wrote:

i have nothing but respect for our soldiers.  their existence helps insure the rights and freedoms we Americans hold so dear.   They are always ready and willing to go to awful places and do awful things when necessary.  The U.S. Armed Forces have always been the great deterrent and that's how is should always be.  You mess with us, you get the hurt.  my problem is with the way politicians abuse the obedience and dedication of our Armed Forces.   I'm not trying to stir up shit on this forum, but I don't see, nor did i ever see how overthrowing Hussein would make the U.S., much less the Middle East, any safer.  I'm nothing but proud of what our military has done in Iraq,  they have done their job.  They're busting their asses every day fighting that war(which they aren't getting paid for) while the president is on TV, making jokes about finding WMD's.   Our soldiers fought and died to secure those nonexistent WMD's and he's making a fucking joke about it.  Our soldiers aren't given adequate body armor, or safe vehicles.  do they complain?  no.  they do the job they are asked to do.  they are  the most valuable asset of all, and our elected officials treat them like shit, like some expendable tool.  and that is what's fucked up.

Well said man. Its not the soilders fault they are put in this situation. Bush, Rummy and "Buckshot" Cheeney should be handed a carbine each and chucked into the center of bagdad dressed only in Stars and stripes boxer shorts.

Bubbalo wrote:

Finbar:  I find it hilarious that you quote MacArthur, he was even more of a callous glory hound than your average British general.

Horseman 77 wrote:

So who is the dude who looks like " Napolean Dynomite " standing under the dome ?

Is he wearing those funky boots?

Horseman starting the name calling, yet again!

Horseman 77 wrote:

The fact that Liberals and Democrats will attack their country and fighting forces so viscously during a time of War is proof enough our cause and plans are working well there.

America is always at war.

Horseman 77 wrote:

If it wasn't and we had a even a small chance of losing, they would never endanger themselves with such reckless action.

If you honestly think that, you're dumber than I thought.

Horseman 77 wrote:

They have no plans, Nothing to offer. They have never given us anything that we needed or anything that worked as a Resume' So all they can do is attack the Messenger. They cant attack his Ideas and they produce none of their own.

You want a plan?  Fine, here's a plan:  Work towards resettling exiled Palestinians inside Israel, and organise true democratic elections, whilst simulatneusly putting funding into education and food supply programs in the Middle East and Africa, thereby attacking the recruitment base of terrorist organisations.  Use the goodwill generated by this to pull the EU, as well as public support worldwide, onto your side.  With the additional resources, attempt to stabilise African nations, such as Sudan.  At the same time, provide local police forces worldwide with free anti-terrorism training, along with subsidised police weaponry.

Also Horseman, you do realise Murtha was a marine?

Bubbalo
I happen to totally agree with you in terms of your "plan".
However the original post was about a more general issue concerning the propensity or otherwise for "US Soldiers to like killing people".
In that respect MacArthur's famous speech at West Point was I felt apposite,in that it concerned itself with if you like the "American soldier".
Don't get me wrong I think he was a flawed character,but then most great personalities are...in addition our view of him is skewed by historical perspective,this thread is to some extent chock full of views that are based on an individuals experience,and their exposure to a number of influences be it service in the armed forces or the media machine.
As a European I think we have some major issues facing us not only in terms of Iraq,but also in terms of the war on terror.I also happen to think that the emergent economies of the world in terms of China,and India will cause our children some issues.

But I also greatly admire America it has given the world so much,and I have a number of Americans amongst my friends.At the same time I think Bush is an idiot.
But and its a big but,the serving soldier does what they are told he or she doesn't control foreign policy at least not at the "grunt" level.He or she deserves our support and our ongoing ability to understand bu never condone the My Lai's .Because atrocities will happen war will I guess inevitably lead to individuals and small groups committing acts that are unacceptable.

I guess I'm trying to say that we need to support the troops as much as possible and harass the politicians.
Lions led by Donkeys.

Bubbalo wrote:

Oh, I'm sorry.  Of course we can trust a hard-line conservative US soldier to tell us whether the US conservatives are doing a good job in Iraq, how silly of me.  Trusting people saves so much time.  Just like Chamberlain trusted Hitler when he said he wasn't going to war, and the US trusted Stalin when he said he wasn't starving his people.  Please forgive me for the utter idiocy of suggesting that you're biased.

Then why are you trusting hard-line liberals with what THEY say?? It is because you don't WANT the conservatives to be right. You will not listen to them even when they are clearly in the know, and by being there have cut through all of the media bullshit and is telling us like it is.

Me and Gunslinger don't see eye to eye on some issues, and we have gone 'round and 'round over them. From what I have read from his posts I gather that he is not polarized to any single issue based on political agendas. I really think  he would report how terrible things are going in Iraq if it were the case and as I recall might have had some negative reporting about it.

I guess the only solution for you to get the facts is to go their yourself

Last edited by lowing (2006-06-14 03:55:25)

here bubbalo is some info I promised ya.ya didn't respond to this so i assumed ya didn't see it so I reposted it for ya.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/missile.html

Thanks.

The document has no bibliography whatsoever, and even then only talks about issues about to 1996.  And I heard a lot more from GWB about WMDs than about long range missiles.

badhq wrote:

What did I miss? Me hopes everything cool here?

Peace Boris

Sub zero m8.

Of course they like it, what the fuck else would you want to join the army for...??!! Of all the jobs you could have picked you choose the one where you're allowed to kill people...hmmmmm

yo "soldier" tell that to the families of the slaughtered iraqi civilians that your mates killed just because they were angry......

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I think the poll should have been, "Do extremist Muslims Enjoy Killing people" Then it would be a good poll. Our soldiers Kill during war, and while Fighting for people who dont have the means to fight for themselves.

The muslim extremists are at war, so far as they're concerned.  As far as fighting for people who don't have the means to fight for themselves goes, I fell I should refer you to Iran, where the US supported an unpopular Totalitarian regime, and Vietnam, where the US could have had public support if the fuckwits in charge hadn't propped up a corrupt government.  But then, you'll probably just explain those away, along with any other examples I bring.  After all, America can do no wrong

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

The extremists Kill for the sake of killing and the warped belief in a religon that is suppose to be peaceful.

Here's a hint: get at least a basic understanding of their grievances before you start saying why they kill.  Historically, the earliest muslim terrorist groups were made in the Palestinian refugee camps.  Al Qaeda was funded and trained by America to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, then turned to the US when the USSR collapsed.  Perhaps that tells you something about how America appears to the Middle East.

mKmalfunction wrote:

Last I checked, that hadn't been proven yet. And if it did happen, they had an equal chance of being killed by the Insurgence.

It's pretty obvious that they were.  The remaining question is in what manner they were killed, and what, if anything, the soldiers did wrong.  Besides, call me crazy, but I think if the public has an equal chance of being killed by the insurgents and their "defenders", something's going wrong.

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-14 05:21:34)

mKmalfunction wrote:

The way I look at it is, shit happens. Civilian casualities are never a good thing, but it happens in war. Look at what we did to Dresdin in WWII. A cultural center bombed during a parade.

Oh yes, Dresden was completely unavoidable.  Riiiiiiight.

mKmalfunction wrote:

It's funny how people can defend those fuckers over there, when the same ones they defend are more than willing to remove their head for 'em.

It's funny how you can completely ignore the fact that that's really the only way they can fight back.

mKmalfunction wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I think the poll should have been, "Do extremist Muslims Enjoy Killing people" Then it would be a good poll. Our soldiers Kill during war, and while Fighting for people who dont have the means to fight for themselves.

The muslim extremists are at war, so far as they're concerned.  As far as fighting for people who don't have the means to fight for themselves goes, I fell I should refer you to Iran, where the US supported an unpopular Totalitarian regime, and Vietnam, where the US could have had public support if the fuckwits in charge hadn't propped up a corrupt government.  But then, you'll probably just explain those away, along with any other examples I bring.  After all, America can do no wrong

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

The extremists Kill for the sake of killing and the warped belief in a religon that is suppose to be peaceful.

Here's a hint: get at least a basic understanding of their grievances before you start saying why they kill.  Historically, the earliest muslim terrorist groups were made in the Palestinian refugee camps.  Al Qaeda was funded and trained by America to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, then turned to the US when the USSR collapsed.  Perhaps that tells you something about how America appears to the Middle East.

mKmalfunction wrote:

Last I checked, that hadn't been proven yet. And if it did happen, they had an equal chance of being killed by the Insurgence.

It's pretty obvious that they were.  The remaining question is in what manner they were killed, and what, if anything, the soldiers did wrong.  Besides, call me crazy, but I think if the public has an equal chance of being killed by the insurgents and their "defenders", something's going wrong.

The way I look at it is, shit happens. Civilian casualities are never a good thing, but it happens in war. Look at what we did to Dresdin in WWII. A cultural center bombed during a parade.

It's funny how people can defend those fuckers over there, when the same ones they defend are more than willing to remove their head for 'em.

and if this "shit" happened to your family, how would you feel about it. its easy when this stuff happens to faceless people half way around the world.

mKmalfunction wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

mKmalfunction wrote:

The way I look at it is, shit happens. Civilian casualities are never a good thing, but it happens in war. Look at what we did to Dresdin in WWII. A cultural center bombed during a parade.

Oh yes, Dresden was completely unavoidable.  Riiiiiiight.

mKmalfunction wrote:

It's funny how people can defend those fuckers over there, when the same ones they defend are more than willing to remove their head for 'em.

It's funny how you can completely ignore the fact that that's really the only way they can fight back.

I don't ignore the fact that they have to use terror to fight back. Or guerilla tactics. Nor did I say that Dresdin was unavoidable. I just stated that it happened.

But how does it help their cause when they kill their own people? You didn't see Americans in the Revolution doing that shit, and they had to use guerilla tactics to win that war.

I understand that everyone who's fighting in a war is fighting for their Homeland, and their belief. I just don't see how you can support their belief, unless you're a Muslim with extremist views, or so liberal that it makes yer pussy bleed.

or maybe hes just not from one of the two sides involved in the war.  talk to two people that just got in a fight, they probably are gonna have there own ideas about why it happened and whos right. but someone sitting there watching the whole thing might see it a bit more clearly.

this debate with you cant be won then, because its not a debate.

Last edited by Nicholas Langdon (2006-06-14 05:52:04)