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2005-11-05 17:11:33
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6765

OK, this to me was the ultimate proof that the AA in this game has the worst coding ever invented. (I know, it's been beaten to death, but goddam I am pissed off). I was playing Wake getting carrier raped by two douches on jets. I really wanted to fly cobra but there was no way of taking off without getting shot down so I figured I'd sacrifice and go AA. I went to the one in the middle of the carrier and just targeted the plane basically for the rest of the round. I wasn't expecting much since I know the missles suck. Never did manage to take him down.

Well, to my surprise, the PLA decide to bring their chopper over and try and land on our carrier. Lucky for me I'm already in the AA. Now get this, the chopper was practically hovering towards us, like at 1mph, I had perfectly clear view of it, hell I could've shot it down with anti-tank as it was flying so straight and slow. So finally I target it, AA locks on, I shoot 3 missles, and I'm practically savoring the 5 kills I'm about to get Annnnd....

And the FUCKING MISSLES fly straight to the chopper, as soon as they are about to hit they spiral practically around the chopper rerouting completely, and then one of them actually manages to hit one of our own planes nearby. (For which I get punished of course). I was stunned by this, I wish I had taken a videocap of this because it was just ridiculous. After that I got pounded by the raping plane and they managed to land on the carrier and proceeded to destroy us without mercy. I just took it like a man because it is obvious to me that there was nothing to be done.

I'm gonna try and get some video of some of this disgusting AA action, maybe EA doesn't realize what's going on with them missles. As it stands, one good pilot is all it takes to hold back an entire army (read: 16 people) from capturing Wake Island.
2005-11-05 20:42:14
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6845|Bryan/College Station, TX
I feel your pain man. Too many times the missles will go for the target, dodge the target and then seek a different target often your own team's vehicles. The missle system is crap and I have yet discovered why someone would possibly program such a crappy missle seeking AI. They stated that in the 1.03 patch they would fix this but it is obvious they didn't and in fact it seems as if it's actually worse now then before.

So preach on man. Many of us feel your pain.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
2005-11-05 20:48:54
[Ahazi] Kaika
The Suicidal Soldier
+3|6763

GotMex? wrote:

OK, this to me was the ultimate proof that the AA in this game has the worst coding ever invented. (I know, it's been beaten to death, but goddam I am pissed off). I was playing Wake getting carrier raped by two douches on jets. I really wanted to fly cobra but there was no way of taking off without getting shot down so I figured I'd sacrifice and go AA. I went to the one in the middle of the carrier and just targeted the plane basically for the rest of the round. I wasn't expecting much since I know the missles suck. Never did manage to take him down.

Well, to my surprise, the PLA decide to bring their chopper over and try and land on our carrier. Lucky for me I'm already in the AA. Now get this, the chopper was practically hovering towards us, like at 1mph, I had perfectly clear view of it, hell I could've shot it down with anti-tank as it was flying so straight and slow. So finally I target it, AA locks on, I shoot 3 missles, and I'm practically savoring the 5 kills I'm about to get Annnnd....

And the FUCKING MISSLES fly straight to the chopper, as soon as they are about to hit they spiral practically around the chopper rerouting completely, and then one of them actually manages to hit one of our own planes nearby. (For which I get punished of course). I was stunned by this, I wish I had taken a videocap of this because it was just ridiculous. After that I got pounded by the raping plane and they managed to land on the carrier and proceeded to destroy us without mercy. I just took it like a man because it is obvious to me that there was nothing to be done.

I'm gonna try and get some video of some of this disgusting AA action, maybe EA doesn't realize what's going on with them missles. As it stands, one good pilot is all it takes to hold back an entire army (read: 16 people) from capturing Wake Island.
Thats why I never use the missiles, only the huge-ass gun.
2005-11-05 20:56:35
NATRONIS
Member
+0|6761
man, i totally feel your pain. its not just the aa though. ive been flying jets alot more, and i swear to god that my missiles will find a friendly plane so much easier than the guy youre shooting at. ive taken out so many of my own jets, and i cant understand it. the friendly jet is making crazy maneuvers to avoid being shot down by the enemy jet, yet my missiles seem to find him with ease. its disgusting. ive pretty much stuck to bombing after so many of these friendly fire fiascos. but anyway, aa is really weak, especially against jets. improvement is needed.  its too easy to take out aa in a jet, and virtually impossible to take out a jet with aa.
https://bf2s.com/player/36150622/sig5.pnghttps://bf2s.com/player/36150622/awards.jpg
2005-11-05 21:19:21
[RL]Tarasque
Member
+0|6768|Trondheim, Norway
The balancing act with AA vs Air is friggin hard man, but yeah you should be able to hit a flying brick anyday and espesially when it's right in front of you. But again you should have used the gun, takes one chaff to make you missiles go haywire and search for nearest friendly.

Problem is we got 10000 of shitty pilots witch aa works like a charm agains. It's when the odd AcE hits the skies shit hits the fan. If AA becomes to powerfull the average player wont last 10 sec's in a jet. So how can you balance that?

There are ppls who take pride in effective AA measures and in som cases makes it an exact science. Many good post on it.

As for choppers? Use the Hummer or the vod, you can pummel a chopper by the time he's realised he's taking damage.

Anyways i cant say i envy EA's dev team when it comes to AA vs Air balance
2005-11-05 21:51:54
jax
Member
+12|6769
i totally feel ur pain. i had a similar expierence  on wake except when i was chines and i was trying to get my stinger ribbon. i got one fully loaded bh and then another one was flying across me. i locked on waited for him to deploy his flares locked on again before he could reload them fired both rockets and im thinking yes here comes the ribbon and i sweare the bloody smoke trails were almost goin through the bloody thing. then i got gatlng guned and when i have 10 secs to resporn i see "team vehcile damadge dont hurt ur team,team vechile damadge dont hurt ur team, u were punished for a tema kill, you were punished for a team kill.

these programers really have alot to answer for
2005-11-05 22:04:45
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6765

NATRONIS wrote:

man, i totally feel your pain. its not just the aa though. ive been flying jets alot more, and i swear to god that my missiles will find a friendly plane so much easier than the guy youre shooting at. ive taken out so many of my own jets, and i cant understand it. the friendly jet is making crazy maneuvers to avoid being shot down by the enemy jet, yet my missiles seem to find him with ease. its disgusting. ive pretty much stuck to bombing after so many of these friendly fire fiascos. but anyway, aa is really weak, especially against jets. improvement is needed.  its too easy to take out aa in a jet, and virtually impossible to take out a jet with aa.
http://bf2s.com/player/36150622/sig5.pnghttp://bf2s.com/player/36150622/awards.jpg
I've been trying out flying now that I got a joystick and I feel ya, they are good for nothing as well. Although it's rather easy to take out choppers compared to the stingers.

The only thing that eases me about the jet missles is that they at least pretend to follow an enemy plane until they find a friendly one to lock on to and destroy. Mounted AA will just head straight for friendlies with none of the pretending. Or in my case, actually dodge the enemy, go around it, and take down friendly jet.

Plus another thing, I don't think players should be allowed to punish for TKing with AA. You can't actually try and shoot them friendlies down because the missles just won't lock on so automatically I'm pretty sure that means you were trying to kill an enemy. Misguided AA punishing just makes things WAY worse.
2005-11-05 22:13:25
Vicious
Member
+0|6772
aircraft in general has too much armour, I remember shooting an AH-1Z or whatever its called, with the tanks main gun, while peppering it with  machine gun fire.

It languidly turns around to me, and blasts me with rocket fire.

I also remember playing mashtuur, and as usual USMC were dominating because they had a decent blackhawk pilot.

We hit the blackhawk with 3 AT shots right after the other, all 3 of us are mowed down by the chaingun, and it slowly heads back to rep up.

(btw, mashtuur would be an awesome map if the blackhawk was removed, as it is it's a joke)
2005-11-05 22:15:03
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6757|United States of America
Yah AA sucks.  I have been playing trying to get the helo combat ribbon.  And my biggest enemy was friendly AA.   I didnt punish because i know how crazy those stingers are.  I just got mad when i had 17 kills from chopper 30 minutes of gettin blown outta the sky then the round ends.  I think im goin to go bald from pulling my hair out before i get to 30.  EA really has problems to fix, but hey, they've blown us off before, why not now?
2005-11-06 00:10:28
Lazarus Tag'lim
Have Wrench, Will Travel
+1|6782|Alabama Coast, USA
I think AA would be great if...

a) They tweaked it to be just *slightly* better.

b) If they go for chaff, they blow up in it (several missile/bomb types are programmed to blow just prior to impact)

c) If they miss target, it's much harder to reaquire something else.

d) No TKs, period with AA missiles (AA guns are another matter).  If they die, just make it "Player is no more."

C and D are most important...  and would do nothing to impact the "balance" of aircraft vs. AA.


And when I do fly... I get lit up all the time... I catch a stray from time to time, but as far as I can remember, I've not actually been shot down (jet, not hilo... and that's maybe 3h flying).  Though... I do have the horrid tendency to a) go for a ground target, and pull up too late....   not running into my target, but something tall behind it, like trees or a building, or b) hitting something unexpected while avoiding AA or an enemy jet, like perhaps a crane.  What I wouldn't give for programming and PC power for VR goggles, with nice periferal vision.  On some ocassions as well, I've crashed due to becomming disoriented while switching cameras (got the most useful angles programmed into the joystick's hat, regularly checking your 6 o'clock can be a lifesaver).  I rarely use flares in jets... as a little maneuvering seems to work just fine (and works whether you have flares, or they're still reloading).

Further, when flying jets I almost never use missiles.  I switch to bombs the seccond I get in, and usually if I see something in the air worth chasing, I use the cannons...  they're more reliable.  If I'm in missile mode... 90% chance I'm doing it to scare someone into dropping flares and going evasive (such as if they're focused on a friendly, and I want them to stop).
2005-11-06 00:31:14
Sud
Member
+0|6749
I like to call them AT missiles. Anti-Teammate missiles.
2005-11-06 08:51:13
alizard
Member
+0|6778
nice post Lazarus Tag'lim, I agree with your suggestions to fix the AA, also glad to see other poeple catching onto  how to fly like a team player . You should try bombing the enemy commander assets  since ya seem to catch on pretty quick, works like a champ and u'll even rack up kills for it most the time.
also, any pilots in here take a look at this and tell me if you've noticed this lately?
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=3728&p=2   reply #43

Last edited by alizard (2005-11-06 08:52:54)

2005-11-06 10:01:36
[RL]Tarasque
Member
+0|6768|Trondheim, Norway
Im curious, do friendlies get a lock on tone from friendly missiles on it's tail?
2005-11-06 16:32:11
alizard
Member
+0|6778
yes, after they've been fired and don't go for the intended target
2005-11-06 16:34:04
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6768|Cambridge (UK)

alizard wrote:

yes, after they've been fired and don't go for the intended target
So it's their own stupid fault if they don't take evasive actions?
2005-11-06 19:52:28
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6791|Singapore

Vicious wrote:

aircraft in general has too much armour, I remember shooting an AH-1Z or whatever its called, with the tanks main gun, while peppering it with  machine gun fire.

It languidly turns around to me, and blasts me with rocket fire.

(btw, mashtuur would be an awesome map if the blackhawk was removed, as it is it's a joke)
aircraft or helis?

I take down low flying aircraft with my tank. When they come in for the strafe/bomb, I fire my main right under their nose and start gunning like crazy. I usually end up with half life, but take the jet down.
2005-11-06 20:47:03
RGB|Apocalypse
Member
+1|6763
Hi there, my first post here. LOL. Long time lurker here but I definitely feel your pain dude.

Yesterday me and my buddy were playing Mashtuur on MEC and the USMC blackhawk totally rapes everything over the map. Frustrated, my buddy and and I was hell bend on killing the BH and we tagged team using all possible tactics and nothing worked. My credit to the BH pilot being quite a good flyer but its ridiculous that it can take 2 direct AT rounds and just barely smoked. WTF...

BH has got to tone down on its 'deadliness', hell the MEC transport chopper (forgotten its name) could be taken out with only .50cal on a Humvee but that won't even scratch the BH. Not to mention the incredible twin mini-gun on the BH is pure murder!

Sorry for the long rant.
2005-11-06 21:39:09
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6845|Bryan/College Station, TX
You have to admit a few things when it comes to Trasnport Choppers.

USMC: HH-60H Seahawk
PLA: Zhisheng-8
MEC: Mi-17 Hip

The SeaHawk (Or what we call Blackhawk here most of the time) is the best of the three hands down. Due to it's smaller profile and mini-guns its simply a superior helicopter. They have lowered the ability of the Engineer to fix the heli even when it's landed and on the ground. Simply takes longer. Also the Mini-guns have decreased in damage output although the amount of lead flying down range is still impressive.

To compensate for the SeaHawk's obvious superiority they did a couple of things that I can speculate on just from observation.  I believe that the Zhisheng and the Mi-17 both have a bit more armor and seem to take damage less quickly than a BH. Also the side mounted guns, although M60's and not miniguns, seem to do more damg when they actually hit.

Of course none of this is factual info and is all based upon my own observations. Actually technical details are still locked up in some secret vault at EA/Dice for some odd reason.

Interesting links on Vehicles on another website are here:
http://www.battlefield-2.biz/
(Left hand side under Vehicles)

Additional note: Attack Choppers are:
USMC: AH-1Z Super Cobra
PLA: Wuzhuang Zhisheng-10
MEC: Mi-28 Havok

Last edited by kilroy0097 (2005-11-06 21:42:51)

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
2005-11-06 22:09:10
elmer1082
To The Front
+4|6757|Columbus, Indiana
I agree I think all of the AA whether it be mobile or fixed needs an overhaul.
2005-11-06 22:12:30
RGB|Apocalypse
Member
+1|6763
Well, we are not on the question of realism right? This is a game and balance is key to enjoying it. Have you ever see a BH downed by pure .50cal fire from a Humvee? No right? But it happens on a MEC Mi-17 Hip all the time.

Am not even going to talk about how ridiculous it is to blast a Cobra with the BTR-90 APC's 30mm cannon until it overheats and having the Cobra whirl around and blast you to hell. WTF. A 30mm cannon would simply rip a chopper to pieces...
2005-11-07 00:16:24
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6765

I guess RGB|Apocalypse has a good point... while AA sucks for choppers, those humvees are damn amazing at taking them down. I can think of numerous times I ripped a chopper to shreds with them vehicles.

Just today I got lucky and the chopper I was shooting at got so close to me to fire it's missles, that the spacing between them was enough for them to go around me and miss the car completelly. I downed the chopper and was called a hacker followed by a noob. I'm sorry but if I take you down point blank with a humvee, you're the noob.

So I guess it all evens out in the end: deadly humvees + crappy AA = One satisfied mexican.
2005-11-07 03:26:26
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6845|Bryan/College Station, TX
Given what GotMex? says, we might as well petition to have a 20mm Vulcan Gatling Cannon at the Stinger emplacements just like carrier. Just take out the missles and put a massive Phalanx CIWS looking thing there instead. Probably be more effective. Or stick a AA battery that shoots air exploding shells into the air. Pick One of Many. Or just take the top off the AntiAir Mobile Vehicle and make it stationary. Anything has got to be better than crappy useless Stingers.

For more Phalanx Info
Its not exactly what is on the Essex Carrier but it's what they "immitated" with the graphic.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
2005-11-07 16:20:15
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6765

kilroy0097 wrote:

Given what GotMex? says, we might as well petition to have a 20mm Vulcan Gatling Cannon at the Stinger emplacements just like carrier. Just take out the missles and put a massive Phalanx CIWS looking thing there instead. Probably be more effective. Or stick a AA battery that shoots air exploding shells into the air. Pick One of Many. Or just take the top off the AntiAir Mobile Vehicle and make it stationary. Anything has got to be better than crappy useless Stingers.
Damn , that's a lot of AA to pick from, but I'm liking that idea a lot. I would feel better if i sucked at taking down a chopper with a gatling gun rather than my missle sucking. I'm still waiting for the day I shoot an AA missle, it flings around the chopper, and comes straight back and hits me.
2005-11-07 17:36:32
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6791|Singapore

its also ridiculous how a tank shell will not completely obliterate a heli. I remember WAY back a month ago, when i actually blasted a low flying attack chopper with my M1A2, and it just turned around and fired a salvo I just sat there stunned.

I want to see a big bang. I want to see the chopper blow up in such a terrible way that the pilot and co-pilot end up on opposite ends of the map.
2005-11-08 09:24:48
blacksheepcannibal
Member
+24|6754
technically, a tank round might very well not down a chopper. depends, by and by large, on the type of ammunition its using.

remember two key words here people: *GAME BALANCE*

helicopter > tank. in reality, a tank would never even see the chopper, it would lauch a TOW or Hellfire missle from 5 klicks away and the tank wouldnt even see it coming. for the sake of game balance, helicopters are pretty hard to take down from the ground.

but boy do they blow hard when you c4 em when they try to take a flag...

 

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