BF2S Forums Your government spies on your ass!

Yikes!

Snooping around an internet chat room is much different than picking out a phone number, dumping conversations and moving on, especially if information is used on a questionable tap. Maybe it'd be easier for you to think of the Internet Chat room as perhaps the Daycare playground, anything you say at Daycare is free game because there's no expectation of privacy. You can't sit on the merry-go-round and think that any conversation you'll have is protected, not to mention CANADA ISN'T AMERICA!

Obviously you enjoying playing on the winning team, I can respect that. Just know what you're talking about. If you'd like to include the rest of the country into the inner workings of Bush's NSA program I can imagine there are several hundred million citizens, a congress and some terrorists who'd like to know. We've had hearings, limited to "catch lines" and "I'm sorry senator but I'll answer your question in closed session". That too is fine, I'd rather not have the operational details of the NSA program leaked to the bad guys. What I'm not OK with is that there is still opposition, not for impeachement and not enough for a censure, but enough that there are members of congress who don't agree with Bush's assumed interpretation of the Constitution.

It's very much my hope that we can keep the terrorists at bay and keep America safe. I'm not willing to bend, tweak or suspend my civil rights to do so. It's funny because even the most inane civil right should be held in high regard and I hear folks talking about how they wouldn't care. We aren't a society built on "trusting the leadership", in fact we elect different congressmen and a new president every several years so that we aren't stuck with one guy. There are questions on the program that are still unanwered. Certain aspects of the NSA program have some constitutional gaps which need to be addressed so we can fight the "War on Terror" while also retaining compliance with the constitution.

The way I look at it is we have two options:

a)Ignore what the President does and HOPE that he isn't using these programs in an illegal or unconstitutional manner.

b)Open up a dialoge about what needs to be changed so that there is NO question regarding a program that's designed to protect us.

Bush likes to use the "post-9/11" world to frighten and confuse folks. Unfortunately he's 100% right and if that's the case than he needs to help define the "post-9/11" world rather than make up whatever he chooses or whatever fits the situation. There are many seperate clauses in the constitution that require a balance of power between the three branches of government. We should all be concerned if there is even the implication of a constitutional breech. Bush also loves the "activist judges" routine which implies that the judicial branch is stepping outside of it's bounds, so why does the adminstrative branch get a blank check on this NSA program if the judicial branch is so "out of control"?

King_County_Downy wrote:

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry aboout. I don't see the big deal. I'd even go as far as to say that it's really for our own good. They aren't going to waste their time and money on 2 bit weed dealers or tuner guys rallying up for a street race. They're looking for murderers and terrorists. I welcome the new age of technology. Go for a walk on the beach if you want to talk in private about illegal sht. Right? Natural Selection stuff...

Yeah kinda like they don't waste there money on trying to build a tunnel under Boston, or a bridge to no where. Let's face it our government wastes time and money on everything they do. That's why they don't have any...

Yeah but when is enough, enough?  In all honesty we as a people in America need to toughen up, 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened in pre 90 era. A bunch of people with knives should not have been able to take over a full plane, at all. That's why over control of government is a bad thing, if they had guns I'd say differently but some many people in this country are pussified by an over abundance of police presense and fear tactics.

Now really think about this, in my state it's illegal(and you can get arrested) for defending yourself in a fight. Because they don't want to sort out who started it.

Ouch, not being able to defend yourself.  Well, I'm 14, I own a 1911 Springfield armory Colt .45.  I keep it under my bed, nice and ready for any idiot who decides this house is fair game.  My dad has two or three pistols too, he carries pepper-spray, and me a knife.  I take all I can to defend myself, and if the government taps my phone lines, so be it!  Protect us so we don't have to ourselves.  Good job Bush, do whatever you need to!  Liberal pukes can go and shoot themselves so they don't have to deal with the world, do what terrorists do, go kill yourselves, PLEASE!!!!

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Yeah but when is enough, enough?  In all honesty we as a people in America need to toughen up, 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened in pre 90 era. A bunch of people with knives should not have been able to take over a full plane, at all. That's why over control of government is a bad thing, if they had guns I'd say differently but some many people in this country are pussified by an over abundance of police presense and fear tactics.

Now really think about this, in my state it's illegal(and you can get arrested) for defending yourself in a fight. Because they don't want to sort out who started it.

I don't think that is really the reason they were able to take the planes hostage.  Prior to 9/11, people generally didn't get hurt when a plane was hijacked.  They probably thought they'd get diverted somewhere, sit for a little while, then get to go home.  In other words, they didn't think it was worth losing their lives.  That's why things were different with the 4th plane.  They knew they were fucked if they didn't do anything, so they tried to take the plane back.

BTW Downy, I love that sig, man!

These programs are alot like a server filter, they look for things like : well they look for certain keywords, I'm sure you can come up with some on your own, I'll not post them for obvious reasons.....they are also focused on certain call patterns to certain areas of the world, how many times do I have to say that they don't listen to you calling your dealer for weed or whatever, only after a computer flags certain email, net chat, websites, phone calls for these words or call patterns are they transcripted and reviewed, and even then they are (from my understanding of how these have worked since the 70's) matched to a serial number of sorts to keep the identities safe until deemed a threat. Generally I would rather be dead than live in a police state, the day I see UN helmets at my polling venues is the day I start cleaning my gun collection, and I abhor big brother doctrine (I even tried to screw up my fingerprint for my drivers license), but this is non-invasive, unless of course your building dirty bombs. In fact if I recall correctly, of this most recent stink, the tapping was triggered by known terrorists overseas initiating calls to receivers in the US, and I believe neither party were citizens. Again, if you don't call Osama to ask how he liked that sheep porn, you don't have anything to worry about, and if they do want to listen to everything I say, go ahead, I don't do anything they would care about and if that's what it takes to save a few thousand lives fine. It's not like they are going door to door asking for everyone's dna samples.

And Captain, those planes were chosen because they were intercoastal flights and had as much fuel as you could squeeze in without having to go through the passport verification crap of an international flight. and some casualties (hostages are useless to a hijacker dead) that's very different from an entire flight dead.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Yeah but when is enough, enough?  In all honesty we as a people in America need to toughen up, 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened in pre 90 era. A bunch of people with knives should not have been able to take over a full plane, at all. That's why over control of government is a bad thing, if they had guns I'd say differently but some many people in this country are pussified by an over abundance of police presense and fear tactics.

Now really think about this, in my state it's illegal(and you can get arrested) for defending yourself in a fight. Because they don't want to sort out who started it.

My state (Georgia) and several others just passed a "right to defend" act, where you no longer have to try to escape from an attacker, but can stand your ground and even kill them if need be without fear of a Spanish Inquisition (no one would expect that would they), and in all cases violent crime has gone down..

Meh, if they want to spy on me talking to my gf for 3 hours of playing BF2 or w/e. I could care, let them waste their time.

The problem with this whole "wire tapping" and "surveillance" stuff is that, we have NO way of knowing whether or not they're going to abuse it.  I don't think Bush would abuse it, but I wouldn't trust some of those other right - winged looneys like Dick.  The problem is, where do you stop?  What if we elect a president who ABUSES it for his own benefit? 

On one hand, of course we should do this stuff. I mean, if terrorists are roaming around the country undetected, how are we going to know when the next attack will be? 

On the other hand, if we elect a President who cannot be trusted and abuses the system for his own motives, then we have failed as Americans. 

I'll tell you guys, I'm not buying it.  We've had TWO major terrorist attacks in the United States since 9/11.  Not to mention, we've killed ten times as many Arabs over in Iraq. 

I hate quoting sci-fi characters, but I think Lucas is a genius. 

"Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight."

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Tricky times lay ahead of us, me thinks.  Believe what you want, but stay sharp.

Miller wrote:

Ouch, not being able to defend yourself.  Well, I'm 14, I own a 1911 Springfield armory Colt .45.  I keep it under my bed, nice and ready for any idiot who decides this house is fair game.  My dad has two or three pistols too, he carries pepper-spray, and me a knife.  I take all I can to defend myself, and if the government taps my phone lines, so be it!  Protect us so we don't have to ourselves.  Good job Bush, do whatever you need to!  Liberal pukes can go and shoot themselves so they don't have to deal with the world, do what terrorists do, go kill yourselves, PLEASE!!!!

14 and you keep a 45 under your bed and you live in Orange County? California?

Cmon, you can maybe pass that one off on the playground but not here.

Great job in convincing me you really are 14 though.

Last edited by yerded (2006-06-05 22:14:37)

You just have to be a gang bang scofflaw that don't give a rats ass about gun laws.
Oh wait...you meant legal.
Nevermind.