Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
On the on hand I like to think Trump is now sitting there with his calculator adding up all the money he thinks his tariffs are going to deliver, not understanding that they'll probably deliver a net zero.
Hitting one completely co-dependent country, China, with tariffs (is 'tariffing' a word?) is one thing, there's not much they can do.
Hitting the whole world is another, there's no choice for them but to hit back, or collectively turn their backs and divest from trade with the US.

On the other this is a distraction from the game plan which is to separate Americans from their personal and national wealth.
"Hey, if you don't have a reason to trade with foreign countries you don't actually need dollars do you? Anyway, they've already been forcibly traded for TrumpCoins after your bank went bust.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
i genuinely believe that trump just doesn't understand how tariffs work. anything macro is beyond his ken. conservatives love to weaponise the micro-scale fallacies about macroeconomics - 'balancing the household budget' and so on - to their own ends. i think trump really is stuck at the micro- level though. he's still a real estate hustler who thinks he can use fiscal measures to shake down foreign powers. not going to work.

i do think the people in his team and behind him know this, but they're seeing big opportunities in this 'reset'. not at all in the interests of the american populace, that goes without saying.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
Well the starting point is no doubt Trump believes 'they' will just pay the tariff and not put up the price. All win for him.
In practice, and very obviously, someone somewhere has to find that money from somewhere.
Typically its going to be the manufacturer or importer and they are going to pass that cost on or stop manufacturing or importing.
Its hard to believe Trump is actually stupid enough to think this could work but I think its actually possible.

It does seem that Team Trump is pursuing both economic and military chaos, assuming they will come out on top holding all the land and all the gold.
Or that everywhere except America will be reduced to a wasteland so even if they go down they'll still look good comparatively.

The Neo-cons have been going on about cauldronisation forever, Netanyahu is doing it, maybe this is global cauldronisation and Trump is the ultimate useful idiot.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
the entire way they've calculated the tariffs leads me to believe this really is not thought through.

in an 'art of the deal' way, they're clearly probably intended as a starting point for some hustle and negotiations. presumably every government is now intended to be quivering in their boots and queuing up for an audience with the capricious emperor.

i'm really not sure how it will play out in realpolitikal terms, however. for instance, the UK has the 'benefit' of a tariff of 10%. but where can we negotiate from here? not much wriggle room on the existing trade arrangements. it's going to mean accepting lots of chlorinated chicken and american private healthcare, i'm sure.

Last edited by uziq (2025-04-03 03:11:46)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
Yeah I don't know.

When China put tariffs on Aus there was a collective gulp, followed by "OK fuck off then" and people found new markets and/or scaled back a bit.
It was painful but got done.

I mean, if America wants to pay 25% more for Australian beef thats fine, if not the chinese and japanese will buy it.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
yes, none of this obviates the fact that a 'reset' has to involve a lot more than tariffs. the tariffs can only be 10% of the economic do-over that's needed if they are sincere about their stated aims of reorganising the global balance of trade.

slapping a tariff on something doesn't nullify the fact that americans want lots of 'made in japan', 'made in china', and lately 'made in vietnam' products whereas most chinese have absolutely no need or desire for a 'made in america' anything.

it's reminiscent of when nixon intentionally tried to sink japan's tiger economy, or when the british started up the opium wars because the qing emperor didn't for anything in trade with the west.

Last edited by uziq (2025-04-03 03:23:11)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
But yeah, you can just retool your industry overnight and for nothing.

A question is whether 'Made in America' will mean made in a lights-out factory set up and maintained by Singaporeans using Taiwanese equipment and zero local labour.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
there's some very funny useful idiots in the british press this week, who have been dyed-in-the-wool thatcherites for the last 40 years, antagonising and organising to similarly doctrinal ends, suddenly bemoaning the death of british steel. offshoring industry and manufacturing has been the entire point, while you've profited and asset-stripped. fucking loons.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
What I remember the Thatcherite and Reaganite pro-offshoring crowd saying was "We should get rid of these grubby industries which no-one wants, and focus on what we are good at"
Turned out to be pretty much nothing.

I think they thought they could run the economy on services and the City of London, locking out the grubby proles from the profit centres.
It can almost work but people do unavoidably need manufactured goods, building materials, energy etc and if you're importing all that you need to sell an awful lot of nebulous services to pay for them.

People still don't seem to understand that balance of trade does matter and value addition is the core of a working economy, not trading.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
https://x.com/quendergeer/status/1907873192053772502

good god, if this is true.

in STEM government we trust.
uziq
Member
+518|3798
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
With everything going on why are you still using Terpufkat?
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
"pompous Silicon Valley fucks who think they are general-purpose geniuses"

Whats funny is we've had 300 years of pompous Oxbridge fucks who think they are general-purpose geniuses, 150 years of pompous ivy league fucks who think they are general-purpose geniuses.

Now STEM-lords are in the ascendancy people like uzique are suddenly upset.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
At present the GBP-AUD exchange rate is going in my favour faster than my stocks are falling, so I'm actually winning.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,068|7118|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

"pompous Silicon Valley fucks who think they are general-purpose geniuses"

Whats funny is we've had 300 years of pompous Oxbridge fucks who think they are general-purpose geniuses, 150 years of pompous ivy league fucks who think they are general-purpose geniuses.

Now STEM-lords are in the ascendancy people like uzique are suddenly upset.
lmao. virgin 21st century college dropout stemlord vs. 19th century polymath chad. very memeable. not even hard.

https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/02/SC-Elon-College-Comp-copy.jpg
can't even sketch a car
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+652|4066
I want to be a founding father. How do I evade the tariff?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

lmao. virgin 21st century college dropout stemlord vs. 19th century polymath chad. very memeable. not even hard.
Your average Oxbridge dweeb is very much not a polymath though, barely a monomath, but very much a pompous know-it-all.

Which reminds me, I met a solicitor who described himself as a "Renaissance Man" because he "really liked everything about the Renaissance"
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
conveniently ignoring once again that the people responsible for bringing us to this point, of elite capture by high-finance and pro-globalisation technocrats, was maggie thatcher with her chemistry degree and a bunch of city spivs. and of all the demagogues taking the world off an authoritarian cliff today in the present, i’m not sure any of them are products of a mandarin’s education in the walled gardens of humanism?

your animus is directed at a stereotype of ‘oxbridge toff’ that isn’t even coherent. you take aim at the pretenses of snobby polymaths (?!) when even the british media and public have the sense to pillory the much-derided PPE graduates who comprise ‘the blob’ in westminster nowadays. pretty much nowhere in the world is this ‘liberal elite’ that populism is staged in opposition to composed of snooty literature aficionados; they don’t exist. the democrats are the party of lawyers and wall street, not professors of new criticism at yale. 

PPE isn’t a snobby humanities gig, it’s a fast-track course for political advisors and student politicians. they do a smattering of political philosophy in their first year and study the shakiest foundations in economics of an extremely orthodox variety, neither of which are in-depth or require the ‘core’ skills of said disciplines, e.g. rigorous logic or mathematical model building, respectively. what it does provide them with is access to elite networks, which is to say 85% of what’s necessary to get on in politics, regardless of actual theory or textbook study: being in the same room and at the same events is the real point. that’s why in background most of the PPE - SPADland/thinktanker - parliamentary staff - MP - minister pipeline are a fairly heterodox lot. there isn’t much in common between liz truss and an old etonian whose great-great-grandfather was a baronet. they just did ‘the’ course that produces the current centrist consensus and elite, which has pretty much … zero to do with humanities academia.

it’s the true mickey mouse degree for braying henry’s whereas - in typical brit snobbery - it’s degrees like ‘meedjuh studies’ at ex-polytechnics that attract all the ire, presumably for teaching the working classes skills of literacy and analysis and preparing them for oikish jobs at ad agencies or working for some beastly outfit like channel 4.

as always, with low-c conservative reactionary opinion, most of your targets have little coherence; it’s just personal resentments all the way down. hating the preponderance of old etonian mediocrities who rise to the top of every establishment job in the uk is one thing; that’s manifestly inherited privilege that is sealed in place at boarding age. hating ‘oxford humanities’ is incoherent.

a lot like how the american right has been irritated to no end by a tiktok of … australian gen-z women at the office?! go figure. it’s like bull fighting with you lot. wave the word ‘oksferd’ around like a piece of red cloth and spend the next 40 minutes waiting until you exhaust yourself.

https://x.com/franzsherbert/status/1909 … 7OKnIcMVqg

Last edited by uziq (2025-04-07 02:44:26)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
OK but people study PPE at Oksferd no?

Like I said, its funny that people are moaning about pompous know-it-all STEM nerds when we've suffered centuries of pompous know-it-all non-STEM nerds who have thoroughly fucked things up.
And Thatcher didn't want to do chemistry.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
the PPE degree is about 100 years old, and has only really enjoyed its total ascendancy since the 1980s and ushering in of the neoliberal consensus.

an inability to identify the social demographic, or more relevantly the vested interests, who have taken society in this direction suggests you could do with a little less ranting (and paranoiac anti-semitism) and a little more 'humanitoooores' reading yourself. it isn't effete literature snobs that have decided, thanks to their extensive reading of pliny and strabo, to export all the jobs to the ends of the known world. it was technocrats and middle-management types, just as often from margaret thatcher's sociological and psychological cast - i.e. the small-town petit bourgeoisie, 'the girl from above the newsagents' - as it has been parodically posh old etonians. and for every comically villainous private bank or wealth fund in the city headed by some scion of wellington or quadruple-barrelled-surnamer, there's been a bunch of 'money!' (to quote harry enfield) yuppies in the city unleashed by deregulation and seemingly unregulated appetites for avarice who are as to blue blood as prosecco is to moet.

the entire idea of PPE is that it straddles both worlds; it's not taken seriously as a humanities discipline. there are no star scholars or heavyweights of PPE; what it has instead are mavens and doyennes, people who occupy the top academic seats who can 'pick up the phone' for a preferred student. they tend to study, you know, philosophy or politics or history as a proper subject. the 'star pupil' of PPE, much publicised because of his etonian rivalry with bojo, was ... david cameron (1:1). QED.

Last edited by uziq (2025-04-07 02:49:20)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
Em no, offshoring industry was incentivised by the highest level of government, as was deregulation of the city.
Both were largely to keep the plebs in their place.

You brought up PPE, not me.
The fact is govt and politics has been dominated by worthless and ignorant Oxsferd nerds for generations.
We seem to have a tiny blip of STEM nerds and everyone is going nuts.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

paranoiac anti-semitism
LOL OK, I think the world has now seen the jews for what they are, there's no hiding it away again.
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uziq
Member
+518|3798
i brought up PPE because it clearly explains the mediocrity of our highest levels of government in recent decades, not 'too much humanities'. what exactly about liz truss or rishi sunak says to you 'too much humanities'? was theresa may an effete snob from the ivy tower? you are relying on a caricature of 'posh humanities toff' which describes probably less than a third of our prime ministers since thatcher.

what they have in common is being from the same 3 boarding schools (if male) or being PPE grads (mostly male and female). and that's not to mention the entire ecology that exists around every MP, minister, and PM, and where they really derive their political ideas from, which is precisely 'SPAD land' and the 2-3 postal addresses packed full of thinktanks around westminster. and what degrees do all those advisers and hangers-on have? PPE. it's not people getting double-starred firsts from oksferd in milton or chaucer who trot off to tufton street to get the ear of a minister, dilbert.

you simply can't skewer PPE as some product of elite snobby humanities culture. that's simply not what that course is. the banner course of centrist technocracy is not the same thing as 'privileged poshos studying dusty books to signal how privileged and posh they are at the grouse shoot and polo match'. the PPE course is really something else.

Last edited by uziq (2025-04-07 02:55:52)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6452|eXtreme to the maX
Well not everyone in govt studied PPE, many of them did indeed study dusty books and subjects which equipped them for govt about as well as if they'd spent four years getting drunk and lounging about - which is in fact what most of them really did.
Certainly before PPE thats exactly what they did.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2025-04-07 03:04:35)

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uziq
Member
+518|3798
i'm sorry, but how exactly does studying chemistry or physics make you any better equipped to run a complex nation state than reading, say, geography as theresa may did?

that 'crack team' of leadership with autistic levels of experience and focus in science/tech are called DOGE. seems to be going well chap! or do you, once again, need some other examples from history where engineers or scientists have run a country into the ground?

your focus on undergraduate reading lists has never made sense, and never will. it's like you've really never had to manage an organisation yourself, or know the first thing about leadership. you're still in the workshop squealing about cable ties.

Certainly before PPE thats exactly what they did.
PPE was introduced in 1920. do you really know what most scientists did before the 1900s? it wasn't the modern research institution, let me tell you. the victorian era was THE era of the gentleman-dilletante. the sciences weren't exactly a professionalised body before PPE's time, either, dilbert. everyone who went to oxbridge in the 19th century was a posh nob. i mean what the fuck are you even arguing here? it's historically illiterate nonsense.

that's before even talking about what the 'real' scientists of the early modern era were like, educationally, in comparison to today's hyper-specialised form of education. do you know the first thing about the circles around niels bohr and the institute of physics, for instance? they just as often got together to talk about poetry and music as science! even this canonical 'genius scientist' type you refer to with glowing praise doesn't resemble the contemporary BSc graduate, putatively going into politics, in any fucking way.

https://louisiana.dk/en/event/niels-boh … en-spirit/

Last edited by uziq (2025-04-07 03:29:25)

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