Announcement

Major changes have been made site wide. If you experience problems, please send tazz. a PM.
uziq
Member
+491|2945
how relevant your recent tv watching is to the pandemic.

you really aren’t a very intelligent individual, are you? sub-tabloid ranting about the state of the world isn’t analysis, dilbert.

your ahistorical takes on ‘it worked perfectly fine’ don’t apply at all to post-delta covid. we have been here SO many times before. no, locked borders were not ‘working fine’ for the countries pursuing this path with delta and later strains. why do you have this persistent need to muddle the timeline of the pandemic? nobody is buying it.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
There shouldn't even have been a delta variant.

Looking forward to 'living with ebola'.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+491|2945
ebola is not comparable to covid. i thought covid was comparable to leprosy? make your mind up.

how would closing borders have stopped a highly mutative coronavirus from, erm, mutating? it’s clear enough that even in a small population sample, the virus will mutate a lot. that’s what the early metastudies ably demonstrated: multiple mutations in very short order.

‘if only everyone stayed inside for 6 months, we could eradicate flu, just like we got rid of, erm, smallpox’.

you’re illiterate and repeating the same rants doesn’t give your takes any more validity.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
As long as its not in my population I don't care how much it mutates.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+491|2945
read a book.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

Humanity is going to be living with viruses for awhile. Doesn't mean we can't do anything about it. We develop vaccines and medications and therapies, likely a preferable alternative to Matrix pods.
uziq
Member
+491|2945

Dilbert_X wrote:

As long as its not in my population I don't care how much it mutates.
the whole point is that the variants mutated and gained advantages in transmissibility which defeated border controls. you fucking idiot. how would it stay ‘over there’ in a globalised world? even hermit kingdoms like north korea have been exposed to covid outbreaks. even remote island nations need some notional contact with the rest of the world at some point. how else are you going to get your nerd hobby springs?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
In future I'm just going to get a local company to make my springs.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+491|2945
https://twitter.com/bci_/status/1595498 … qqHTXOdP7g

the people who make your electronics aren’t very happy. zero covid is going very well.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,279|6209

uziq wrote:

https://twitter.com/bci_/status/1595498843805999104?s=46&t=TZJtU2Z2AxzxqqHTXOdP7g

the people who make your electronics aren’t very happy. zero covid is going very well.
obviously they need more zero covid to solve the problem
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+491|2945
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
Covid is harmless, only 6,500,000 dead, probably 10x that with ongoing health issues, probably plenty more health problems we don't even yet know about.

Can't wait for 'living with tuberculosis'.

uziq wrote:

Don't worry guys, when its killed 100m its sure to evolve into a less harmful form.
Ooh where shall I go this year, I'm thinking India? Bombay-Calcutta-Delhi-Taj Mahal. Then Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Bali - gonna be epic! I'll be sure to post it all on insta"
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+491|2945
you’re making yet more fatuous arguments.

nobody said covid is harmless or that death is trivial. but vaccines work. china went hard for zero covid and let vaccine skepticism in the elderly in particular harden. you know, like the skepticism you keep promulgating. now they are years into socially and psychologically exhausting zero covid and still looking at mass death from uncontrolled waves. it’s a huge self-own but you keep saying how flawlessly zero covid delivers. evidently it does not.

it’s nice that you’re envious of my lifestyle. but i’m not reading anything in your supposed ‘barbs’ than just that: saltiness. pOstiNg oN iNsTaGrAm. lmao you sad little recluse.

i had some great food today and hooked up with a lovely charming local, an art curator who is taking me to a gallery on tuesday. tonight i’ll take a nice walk by the river. isn’t life just marvellous when you’re living in a society that is managing covid without lockdowns?

Last edited by uziq (2022-11-27 02:34:25)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,279|6209

uziq wrote:

you’re making yet more fatuous arguments.

nobody said covid is harmless or that death is trivial. but vaccines work. china went hard for zero covid and let vaccine skepticism in the elderly in particular harden. you know, like the skepticism you keep promulgating.
biggest irony about china is that they can never get past the wechat 'chinese medicine' shit lmao. not to mention blocking BNT/pfizer vaccine from being distributed despite licensing rights... i know people in china legitimately think vaccines dont work, but the chinese ones are the best and the western ones are dogshit. then they see the maskless world cup lmao
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
Vaccines reduce the death rate, they don't stop covid transmitting, mutating, long term health problems etc.

Last week 357 South Koreans dies of covid. I guess unless someone dies a gasping death in front of you they don't matter, whats important is for you to do whatever you like.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+491|2945
nothing can stop covid transmitting and mutating at this point. jesus fucking christ dude. china has been a hermetically sealed locked down state for THREE YEARS and they're currently experiencing RECORD WAVES of daily reported cases, even by their own self-reporting and admission. nothing short of a coordinated GLOBAL lockdown for ~3 months is going to stop covid from transmitting.

of course 0 deaths and no transmission would be ideal. who the fuck could possibly disagree with that? but meanwhile in the real world, societies and their governments have gradually had to develop ways to live alongside covid. the vaccines do a tremendous job in mitigating death and serious illness in the (recently) boostered. it is simply unjustifiable to pursue an insane and unfeasible 'zero transmission' goal. that's not achievable! aren't you an engineer who is supposed to work with real-world constraints and tolerances? why does your engineering godbrain pragmatism desert you on this topic? because mumsy and daddy are at risk of gasping their last?

it's tragic that 357 people died of covid. i don't know why it has to be compared to another tragedy, the crowd crush. both can be tragic and causes of real concern without diminishing the other? so i can't be traumatised by something i witnessed and was peripheral to because people are dying of covid, or flu, or cancer? what is this fucking argument lmao. please, make a point.


however tragic it is, clearly there's a pragmatic argument in play here about restricting the lives – and impacting the health – of 50 million people. there's an obvious trade-off here which is the business of epidemiology and public health policy every single day. that goes for all diseases and public health issues. do we shut down society every winter when flus and colds spike? they are similarly extremely dangerous for those same at-risk demographics.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,279|6209

Dilbert_X wrote:

Vaccines reduce the death rate, they don't stop covid transmitting, mutating, long term health problems etc.

Last week 357 South Koreans dies of covid. I guess unless someone dies a gasping death in front of you they don't matter, whats important is for you to do whatever you like.
did anyone died driving the cars you worked on before?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
Sure, but people like to get around, covid has no useful purpose.

Meanwhile South Korea is having a plane crash a week.
People lost their minds when two 737Maxs crashed, but "isn’t life just marvellous when you’re living in a society that is managing covid" at only a 737 full a week dying.
This all says a great deal about uziq really, four weeks on from witnessing 150 people die "isn’t life just marvellous" amazing.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-11-27 04:52:50)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+491|2945
lol what? road traffic deaths are trivial and minimised but old people dying of respiratory diseases is the most important thing ever?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/upsh … lists.html

it’s a huge cause of preventable deaths. people can get around by safer forms of transport - and the environment benefits too.

why do you get to have your selfish lifestyle with a car? why is that more important than the trade offs with covid? schools, offices, hospitals and dentists and doctors practices etc, being open aren’t somehow important to society? oh but dilbert likes to drive his toy subaru so driving deaths aren’t important.

Meanwhile South Korea is having a plane crash a week.
People lost their minds when two 737Maxs crashed, but "isn’t life just marvellous when you’re living in a society that is managing covid" at only a 737 full a week dying.
this form of argument is just all so very silly. preventing crowd crushes and plane accidents are relatively simple. reasonable steps can be taken to address both issues to very high margins of safety. shutting down all of society to stop the transmission of a disease isn’t the same proposition as posting some police with crowd-channeling measures or having some engineers run the sums a few extra times. (yes i know aviation isn’t actually simple as a subject before you go off on some boring aside about engineering being the most difficult thing ever).

This all says a great deal about uziq really, four weeks on from witnessing 150 people die "isn’t life just marvellous" amazing.
should i perform my grief better for you, daddy? sit shiva for a month? wear black for a year? why are you persistently trying to snipe at me for not satisfactorily paying my respects - when i have done just that? it’s very, very weird. it makes you look unhinged and pathetic.

otherwise, yes, my life is better than yours in just about every conceivable way. and you clearly hate it. i love living rent free in your head.

Last edited by uziq (2022-11-27 04:59:39)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

Civil unrest right now in China. If they can't do it, how is the rest of the world expected to? As always, the thought experiment of humanity sealing itself away for a few months is unactionable and impractical. Nobody's going to snap their fingers and Thanos away all of disease any time soon. People need to live with it with practical, preventative measures at their disposal. And it doesn't help when loonies and quacks fight against efforts by spreading vaccine misinformation, etc.
uziq
Member
+491|2945


wow.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

I'm aware that a lot of what dilbert posts here is just bait and troll but it just doesn't make sense to be so simultaneously admiring of Chinese strategy regarding COVID-19, yet so distrustful of the country's government … also regarding COVID-19. I mean sure you get a rise, but it just reads so stupid. Self-troll.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+607|3212
I think the focus on China's internal issues regarding zero COVID is a lot of wishful thinking. It will still be interesting to see where the government goes with their response. There is of course a middle ground between "let it rip" and "zero COVID" but that middle ground has a lot of bodies in it. China probably feels that the public unrest is less embarrassing and destabilizing than hospitals with freezer vans. Did we all forget what it was like in March 2020?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

I remember the "let'r'rip" sentiment from the pre-vaccine days like this was just a common cold or something. Horrible idea back then.

Did we all forget what it was like in March 2020?
This is 2022. Almost 2023. We have effective vaccines. Not as much need for apocalyptic triage. People have to be vaccinated though.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-11-28 16:29:01)

uziq
Member
+491|2945
i don’t think anyone is condoning ‘let it rip’ in china. it would be a disaster for the world. but the point is that their draconian policies have done nothing to stop this. record waves after 3 years of literally welding their own populace into their (burning) apartment buildings.

they squandered 3 years and turned their country’s authoritarianism up several notches in the process. utterly illiberal measures have stuck around like a bad smell in western countries too: two extremely authoritarian public order bills have entered UK law in the lees of covid-19. arguably inconceivable before people accepted such restrictions before the pandemic. it’s the bush admin patriot act post-9/11 all over again.

and yet there’s still useful idiots in the west, like dilbert, arguing for zero transmission and reducing cases. it hasn’t worked in a totalitarian police state that is inside every single person’s apartment building and phone like a literal big brother figure – but apparently it’s tenable globally? lol go figure.

china isn’t the only place with swathes of the population resistant to vaccines or caught up in hoodoo cures. we have them in the west too. it’s china’s unique failure to deploy meaningful vaccines amongst its most at-risk. you’re telling me the most coercive regime in the world, currently engaged in culturally genociding a population of millions in an entire province, can’t compel the elderly to have a vaccine? they’ve already been forcing mandatory PCRs, lockdowns, etc, on people for years. if a positive case was detected in a shopping mall or a public place, they’d literally seal the MF’ers in there for 3 weeks. no excuses. but they couldn’t deploy vaccines, literally the one thing that will forestall mass death when confronted with the relatively mild omicron?

zero covid has lost all credibility. even amongst a population as patriotic (or cowed and afraid) as the chinese mainlanders. we are seeing the psychological burn-out in real time. students at the elite tsinghua university — the absolute top 1% of chinese society, who would have slaved their entire lives and had their families pull every string in the party book for entrance – risking everything. shared in common with manual labourers and the working poor in places like urumqi, many of whom have been starving to death or surviving on gruel locked inside their own homes. a broad unison of feelings from the underclass to the elite. and all of these people could risk having their families blacklisted for generations for speaking out. the CCP already utilises measures such as denying criminals/dissidents’ children entrance to good schools, etc. these people are risking multi-generational ruin by criticising zero covid.

bUt iF onLy wE tRieD wE coULd hAve nIxXeD iT!

the whole discussion is so long in the tooth in 2022. like come on, fucking really. there’s been covid cases in north korea. covid cases in antarctic bases and research stations. even during the early era it spread to places that were trying their best to keep it out. every country that went to great expense to pursue zero covid floundered miserably after the delta era.

to say nothing of the fact that pursuing a genuinely global effort to bring the disease to heel wouldn’t just require things like the west–china working in (much) closer cooperation: it would involve public health bodies reaching into places like the DPRK, eritrea, somalia, the destabilised afghanistan of recent years, etc. places where central government and health services are practically nonexistent. otherwise they would just become cauldrons of covid and new mutations, ably spitting it out to the rest of the world. just ridiculously unfeasible from any concrete epidemiological point of view. there’s no policy that could achieve it.

the final nail should have been put in this discussion a LONG time ago.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2022 Jeff Minard