Cybargs
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+2,277|6144

uziq wrote:

i sat in the public gallery of a few courts when i was in my late teens and considering a career in law.

considering the actual court days are the relatively 'exciting' bits ... it was dull as ditchwater. and the tedium is far, far preferable to having to see and deal with some of the truly despicable shit that humanity gets up to.
I've observed a highly publicized criminal trial (you can read the wiki). Jury fell asleep since the for the good part of half a day the trial was about shoe prints and what shoe model it was. Judge had to call for a recess and get them some tea and coffee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_family_murders_(Australia)

you actually need to fund the underlying subject matter interesting to be a lawyer. very hard to be a good tax lawyer unless you love how taxes work xD
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,998|6200|USA

I am not super into Clue or forensics stuff but just hearing about it makes the arguments sound too interesting to fall asleep to. I guess I'd have to be there though. Maybe the lawyers had droning voices.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,277|6144

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I am not super into Clue or forensics stuff but just hearing about it makes the arguments sound too interesting to fall asleep to. I guess I'd have to be there though. Maybe the lawyers had droning voices.
naw it wasnt the lawyers, it was the expert explaining different model of shoes... what shoe print matches what kind of shoes etc. "oh thats a policemans boot..." etc etc. when things get really boring and technical, lay people generally fall asleep.

forensics are sometimes pseudoscience in evidence but get believed by jury, biggest issue for a while is bitemark evidence - protip: no can tan tell the difference between a human bitemark and a dog on human skin, let alone between different people.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5534|eXtreme to the maX
Thats good to know.
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Cybargs
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Dilbert_X wrote:

Thats good to know.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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What other pieces of forensic evidence can be shredded by a good lawyer.
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Cybargs
Moderated
+2,277|6144

Dilbert_X wrote:

What other pieces of forensic evidence can be shredded by a good lawyer.
oh basically none. judges just defer shit to 'experts' until its not longer 'accepted science' and it's difficult to convince a jury otherwise.

you basically just gotta wait till appeal homie.

https://innocenceproject.org/overturnin … forensics/

The misapplication of forensic science contributed to 52% of wrongful convictions in Innocence Project cases. False or misleading forensic evidence was a contributing factor in 24% of all wrongful convictions nationally, according to the National Registry of Exonerations, which tracks both DNA and non-DNA based exonerations.
also human memory is finicky af, you just keep attacking witnesses on who they thought they saw etc.



aside from the theatrics, a good strat.

Last edited by Cybargs (2022-09-18 03:15:41)

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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5534|eXtreme to the maX
I think if a good lawyer can mangle the statistics behind DNA evidence well enough to confuse a juror - and lets face it that isn't hard - they can get anyone off.
Then there's lab fuckups to sow in their minds.

Every time I sit on a committee I think about 12 Angry Men and the Tony Hancock version- where he manages to bring the other 11 around to his point of view, then changes his mind and does it again.
Really looking forward to jury service.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,998|6200|USA

@cybargs Aware of much of this. Following wrongful convictions is another side hobby. It is America, so there is no shortage of 'material.'
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,277|6144

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

@cybargs Aware of much of this. Following wrongful convictions is another side hobby. It is America, so there is no shortage of 'material.'
we got our own as well, most famous was when the dingo ate that ladies baby. the forensic test the cops used was later found it can't tell the difference between blood and red paint. whoops.

@dilbs: most of the time you just explain plausibility how DNA got there. if it's a place they commonly go its like "well duh doesnt mean he was there at xyz time."

debunking fingerprints is the next big thing thanks to koalas. forensics can't tell the difference.
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uziq
Member
+476|2880

Cybargs wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I am not super into Clue or forensics stuff but just hearing about it makes the arguments sound too interesting to fall asleep to. I guess I'd have to be there though. Maybe the lawyers had droning voices.
naw it wasnt the lawyers, it was the expert explaining different model of shoes... what shoe print matches what kind of shoes etc. "oh thats a policemans boot..." etc etc. when things get really boring and technical, lay people generally fall asleep.

forensics are sometimes pseudoscience in evidence but get believed by jury, biggest issue for a while is bitemark evidence - protip: no can tan tell the difference between a human bitemark and a dog on human skin, let alone between different people.
iirc correctly there’s a few influential cases in UK law where a bite mark and the pseudo-forensic reasoning around it led to a wrongful imprisonment.

i still think it’s funny that lie detectors were ever admissible as evidence. may as well bring in a scientologist as an expert witness and get them to use one of their orgone machines or whatever.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,277|6144

uziq wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I am not super into Clue or forensics stuff but just hearing about it makes the arguments sound too interesting to fall asleep to. I guess I'd have to be there though. Maybe the lawyers had droning voices.
naw it wasnt the lawyers, it was the expert explaining different model of shoes... what shoe print matches what kind of shoes etc. "oh thats a policemans boot..." etc etc. when things get really boring and technical, lay people generally fall asleep.

forensics are sometimes pseudoscience in evidence but get believed by jury, biggest issue for a while is bitemark evidence - protip: no can tan tell the difference between a human bitemark and a dog on human skin, let alone between different people.
iirc correctly there’s a few influential cases in UK law where a bite mark and the pseudo-forensic reasoning around it led to a wrongful imprisonment.

i still think it’s funny that lie detectors were ever admissible as evidence. may as well bring in a scientologist as an expert witness and get them to use one of their orgone machines or whatever.
even if lie detector tests were accurate, doing one is by far one of the dumbest things. use yo right to silence yo.

since were on the topic, john oliver actually puts it pretty well



CSI has really fucked juries up lmao. so many cunts have been convicted from shitty cctv cos some 'expert' says 'yeah that matches the guy'
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SuperJail Warden
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I just remembered I have leftover Carvel ice cream in the fridge. I was able to get it because my country wasn't in lockdown because of religious rioting and the death of national mommy.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
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The coffee at work taste like marijuana today. Pleasant surprise.
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RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,726|6165|Oxferd Ohire
You sure it's not just your descent into madness
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+591|3148

RTHKI wrote:

You sure it's not just your descent into madness
No but speaking of that...I am going to see her at our department meeting next week. I am going to make sure I go to school, shaved, and in my best clothes well ironed.
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