pirana6
Go Cougs!
+660|5715|Washington St.
Genuinely, how much of our obscene defense budget would it take to whip up some propaganda about the Ukraine-Russia war and spoon feed it to all the MAGA/LARP-ers who stand around with bb guns, actually give them weapons and armor, train them for a week, then just let them loose in the Ukraine country side? Like a few hundred million? We'd ship over 100k of our stupidest people and best case scenario is we'd help Ukraine win and get some back? Worst case scenario is we try to help Ukraine win but don't make much of a difference because it turns out war isn't COD?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+591|3144
They would defect to Russia. Right wingers see Russia as the last defense against LGBT BLM socialism.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+660|5715|Washington St.
ah dang what a loss
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5530|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

not smart considering they can't access advanced tech supply lines anymore.
I'm sure China can supply anything they could possibly want.

Thats the problem with handing over your most advanced production to an enemy state - well done Steve Jobs etc
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+475|2876
china can't make top-tier military tech. all of their military stuff is ripped off from industrial espionage. there's a reason people haven't been queuing up to buy the chinese OEM version of america's fighter jets. france has a bigger market for plane exports than all of china, iirc. russia could probably replace their soviet-era tech with something at tech parity, i guess that's true enough.

you as an engineer should know full well that in precision engineering, china can seldom match the quality levels and tolerances found in advanced western manufacturing. hence why russia buys plant machinery from italy, switzerland, germany, NL, etc., in order to make its top-tier battletanks, and so on. it extends even for things as mundane and essential as roller bearings. to say nothing of electronics and highly specialised industries like semiconductors.

it's foreseeable that russia could pivot to india and china, not only for its material imports/exports, but also for exporting fossil fuels, too. but the demands would be markedly lower than in their energy dealings with europe, and the quality of goods poorer, too.

for as long as they pursue this course of action and exclude themselves from the global (read: western) market, they've basically voluntarily taken themselves back into the 1980s in just about every way.

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-30 03:33:03)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5530|eXtreme to the maX
Sorry but no, battletanks are fairly rugged things, no hi-tech eqpt needed there.

I'm confident China is pretty close to parity,

https://www.eetasia.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/04/d136bc9d-f336-4485-88d1-cf9fb762e524.jpg

and most military tech is much less advanced than you'd believe, commercial electronics leapfrogged military tech a while ago, most 'advanced military tech' is commercial stuff from a decade or more ago - the procurement timescales being so fucking long.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5530|eXtreme to the maX
China is playing catchup, not at the leading edge yet, but they will be ahead of everyone soon, and once again military chips are typically at least a decade old, I'm sure the average Chinese fab would have no trouble reverse engineering and knocking out whatever Russia needs now even if they can't match the latest Intel CPUs.

https://semiengineering.com/china-accel … i-efforts/
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+475|2876

Dilbert_X wrote:

Sorry but no, battletanks are fairly rugged things, no hi-tech eqpt needed there
erm, it's literally well known that the russians can no longer repair/service or replace their tank industry. their production line process is entirely reliant on plant machinery and tools that are imported from italy, as well as specialist parts that russia can't manufacture themselves to the necessary levels of quality/reliability. (wasn't a whole bunch of russian manufacturing for missiles/rockets and tanks ... actually located in ukraine and sourced through trade agreements?)

in fact, i'm pretty sure even the last round of sanctions, over crimea, severely retarded their ability to build next-gen tanks.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOzaVfIUcAgA7D-?format=jpg&name=medium

Consider Motovilihinskie Zavody - the major producer of MLRS and artillety systems in Russia. As you see, they are using a turn-mill industrial machine of an Italian company Tacchi Giacomo e Figli SpA. Consider an interview with a CEO of Baltic Industrial Company that supplies Russian military plants. "We don't produce industrial machines, bearings, ball screws, spindles. Yeah, Russia can produce lots of "cool" weaponry. But it will fall because it can't produce any boring stuff."

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-30 04:40:52)

uziq
Member
+475|2876

Dilbert_X wrote:

China is playing catchup, not at the leading edge yet, but they will be ahead of everyone soon, and once again military chips are typically at least a decade old, I'm sure the average Chinese fab would have no trouble reverse engineering and knocking out whatever Russia needs now even if they can't match the latest Intel CPUs.

https://semiengineering.com/china-accel … i-efforts/
yes, i agree with you here. but, for all intents and purposes, they've still disengaged and denied themselves trade with cutting-edge tech and have voluntarily put themselves back into the 1980s, for now.

russian tank losses, missile expenditure, etc, has been crazy in this conflict. lots of speculation in the opening months that they weren't going full iraq invasion 'shock and awe' because they simply can't afford to replace the cruise missiles.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+591|3144
Modern tanks have er modern computer.
Stabilized fire systems allowing them to fire accurately while driving full speed. Russian tanks can fire guided missiles which need computer systems to uh guide them.

The U.S. is having an issue with not enough chips for our guided missiles we are sending to Ukraine.

Chinese tank cannon specs were recently leaked on a forum. Interesting stuff there. They are a little less effective than their western counterparts. Chinese also have an issue with their domestically produced jet engines having half the life expectancy of their Russian counterparts.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5530|eXtreme to the maX
Modern tanks probably have something about the level of a 386.

Perfectly adequate computer systems have been around for longer than you'd realise, and for something as simple as a tank will have barely evolved.

eg From 1986 for the M1 Abrams.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA182331.pdf

Russia has had cruise missiles since 1983
After launch, the missile's folded wings, tail surfaces and engine deploy. It is guided through a combination of an inertial guidance system plus a terrain contour-matching guidance system which uses radar and images stored in the memory of an onboard computer to find its target. This allows the missile to guide itself to the target with a high degree of accuracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-55

Russia does not need the latest 5nm microchips to sustain its weapons.

China can supply all the electronics and machine tools they could possibly need.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-06-30 07:03:17)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+475|2876
i think you're missing the point. it's that the plant machinery and tools they are using to make this 'rudimentary' stuff are non-russian. they don't know how to fix them, or can't source replacement parts. it's not like russians don't have the know-how to make tanks or missiles. they do. it's that they lack the background infrastructure and the second-order stuff to keep up production indefinitely. as soon as one of those italian turn-mills they're using breaks down ... they can no longer do that 'simple', 'routine' manufacturing task. they can't bring it back on-line.

retooling entire production lines and plants with all new machinery and fabrication processes doesn't sound ideal in the middle of a war.

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-30 07:15:02)

Larssen
Member
+94|1312

uziq wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC1khWr7wg8

genius. this reminds me of that creepy 'Quiverfull' christian shit.
Jesus christ what is that frame they're pushing. Musk starts off correctly identifying that birth rates fall as welfare, education and perhaps urbanisation increases. Great. He's read a wiki page. Then he goes on a tangent how, no, actually, it's the fault of environmentalism. Cue peterson. It's environmentalism, self hatred and nihilism that are shaming people out of having children. Also this gem: nature will be fine if we increase the population 2-fold! Argument: 'I know a lot about nature and environmentalism, so, uh, anyway' lmao

Just what the fuck. And the interviewer unquestioningly listens, nodding along like a right idiot while 2 seconds earlier he was pointed towards completely different correlations than what they ended up nosediving into.

What's most funny to me is that Peterson has a following of disgruntled, pessimistic and angry men, yet they all flock to a video of him preaching against supposed self hatred. Some enormous levels of projection going on here haha
uziq
Member
+475|2876
musk and peterson are the perfect concoction of 'a dumb person's idea of a smart person'. say long words! comment at waffling length on a scattershot of 'intellectual' topics! overwhelm your audience with unverifiable bullshit!

i also lol'd at musk at that point. "nature can handle 2 times as many people, because, uh, trust me, i know a lot of things, like about the environment".

What's most funny to me is that Peterson has a following of disgruntled, pessimistic and angry men, yet they all flock to a video of him preaching against supposed self hatred. Some enormous levels of projection going on here haha
his whole shtick is that he's a life guru who tells men how to develop self-respect and command over their lives. meanwhile he became hopelessly addicted to prescription medication and breaks down crying on several different podcasts or social media sites on a regular basis. this is the masculine idol you people chose?

i literally saw a video a few weeks ago where peterson was recollecting hearing a covers band play a song in a bar, and he started weeping his eyes out in telling the anecdote. WTF. unhinged.

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-30 11:03:09)

War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+563|6138|Purplicious Wisconsin

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Modern tanks have er modern computer.
Stabilized fire systems allowing them to fire accurately while driving full speed. Russian tanks can fire guided missiles which need computer systems to uh guide them.
Lol
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
Larssen
Member
+94|1312

uziq wrote:

musk and peterson are the perfect concoction of 'a dumb person's idea of a smart person'. say long words! comment at waffling length on a scattershot of 'intellectual' topics! overwhelm your audience with unverifiable bullshit!

i also lol'd at musk at that point. "nature can handle 2 times as many people, because, uh, trust me, i know a lot of things, like about the environment".

What's most funny to me is that Peterson has a following of disgruntled, pessimistic and angry men, yet they all flock to a video of him preaching against supposed self hatred. Some enormous levels of projection going on here haha
his whole shtick is that he's a life guru who tells men how to develop self-respect and command over their lives. meanwhile he became hopelessly addicted to prescription medication and breaks down crying on several different podcasts or social media sites on a regular basis. this is the masculine idol you people chose?

i literally saw a video a few weeks ago where peterson was recollecting hearing a covers band play a song in a bar, and he started weeping his eyes out in telling the anecdote. WTF. unhinged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjENwU-k4Ks
I do wonder how many men actually listen to this guy. I suspect a few in my private life do. I know some are fans of joe rogan who appears in the same ballpark of fucking morons. They generally consider him fair and balanced because he invites everyone on his talkshow.

I never bothered to listen because he strikes me as a total moron whenever he starts talking. It has the air of a 'brocast' of sorts in just everything.

I'm sure peterson was one of his guests too. Now, sometimes, I hear the man making decent points - but it triggers me beyond belief how phrases like 'post modern marxism' are thrown around. I also dislike the fact that he ended up debating Zizek further giving his persona/platform an air of legitimacy, though Zizek also has his own particular narcissisms. I guess he couldn't resist the spotlight.

Last edited by Larssen (2022-06-30 11:27:26)

uziq
Member
+475|2876
joe rogan is what you get when you take a not particularly intelligent starting template, have them get hit in the head professionally for 10 years, and then pump them full of weed for the second half of their life.

the zizek 'debate' was a joke. peterson presumed to actually debate a professional philosopher when he clearly had not even read 'the communist manifesto', let alone any works of serious philosophy or theory. it was a total non-starter as peterson couldn't even define his main foe, 'postmodern marxism', in any meaningful way. it was very cringe and a waste of everyone's time.

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-30 11:30:01)

uziq
Member
+475|2876
and this week, in another exciting episode of 'there isn't a drinking problem at westminster' (dilbert, 2022):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 … and-others

deputy chief whip of the tory party resigns after getting blasted at the carlton club and groping two men.

lmao. i've lost count of how many scandals there's been now with this current tory govt and partying/boozing. it's like the restoration monarchy. bunch of libertines.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5530|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i think you're missing the point. it's that the plant machinery and tools they are using to make this 'rudimentary' stuff are non-russian. they don't know how to fix them, or can't source replacement parts. it's not like russians don't have the know-how to make tanks or missiles. they do. it's that they lack the background infrastructure and the second-order stuff to keep up production indefinitely. as soon as one of those italian turn-mills they're using breaks down ... they can no longer do that 'simple', 'routine' manufacturing task. they can't bring it back on-line.

retooling entire production lines and plants with all new machinery and fabrication processes doesn't sound ideal in the middle of a war.
Keeping equipment going, yes its hard but it can be done and I've both done it and been involved in it.
Think how hard it is keeping a factory going running everything from MS-DOS machines to Win 10 and everything in between, and all the electrical parts which went obsolete 20 years ago, and the mechanical parts for which the tooling was crushed before that, and the software and actual operating programs.

The average machine shop can machine every part for every piece of equipment it uses, someone can rewind a motor, someone else can repair a fromitz board or create an alternative.
Most machines boil down to a set of generic components eventually.
Russians aren't stupid, they had nuclear and space programs with less than 10% of the resources of America and no access to western technology markets.
There might be some hiccups as they change over from Italian machines to Chinese ones, then they'll be even less dependent on the west - Emperor Xinping has promised that.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+475|2876

uziq wrote:

and this week, in another exciting episode of 'there isn't a drinking problem at westminster' (dilbert, 2022):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 … and-others

deputy chief whip of the tory party resigns after getting blasted at the carlton club and groping two men.

lmao. i've lost count of how many scandals there's been now with this current tory govt and partying/boozing. it's like the restoration monarchy. bunch of libertines.
boris johnson LITERALLY just said, quote, "i do think that there is a distinct problem ... with alcohol. some people cannot take their drink".

in the parliamentary liaison committee that surely will represent the public full stop of his career as PM.

there's been no fewer than about 6 major scandals involving sleaze, sexual abuse, behavioural and drink problems ... in 2022.

half the energy of this govt has been spent on managing HR (or PR, more like) issues with senior members of govt.

astonishing.
uziq
Member
+475|2876
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW_oWQ1XgAQeBq5?format=jpg&name=large

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+591|3144
I bet he could lead the Tories to a other win over labor anyway.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+475|2876
a coalition between labour/the lib dems seems likely at the next general election. it would be even better if labour gave up its pretensions to be a monolithic 'opposing party' that can still ably represent the nation (within our creaking, poorly designed FPTP voting system, that is). labour can't depend any more on the northern working class, true enough, and it's definitely lost vast swathes of scotland to the SNP independence movement, post-brexit.

the conservatives took a drubbing in two recent byelections in which they lost historically VERY safe seats to labour/lib dems. people have had enough of this current government, whether because of the drama with boris or because of the very real, very material harms they are doing to the country (cost of living, no housing targets met, NHS underfunding, continued woes with private transport networks, etc). on that last point, we are seeing unprecedented industrial action and strikes which put us firmly back in the 1970s in terms of political blocs.

labour are almost singularly useless but the last two byelections have shown that people are willing to use the FPTP system to tactically vote for the 'not tory' option.

all of these resigning tory MPs, many of whom are brand new to politics and brought into westminster because of the historic 'northern red wall' collapse, are resigning now because they know that they won't get re-elected in future if these repeat performances continue. many of boris's 'landslide' wins were extremely marginal turns from long-red areas to blue for the very first time. it's these MPs who are resigning in droves now because they realize how shaky their electoral foundations are.

there's a large rump of the tory party backbench, including many ex-MPs and grandees who were expelled from the party by boris in recent memory, who want to see a return to 'moderate' centre-right conservatism. many tories are deeply unhappy with boris's domestic politics and vision (more properly the lack thereof). he's a conservative prime minister who has been systematically raising taxes - which cuts against every orthodoxy and every parsimonious conservative voter's raison d'etre. his government seem uniquely without vision and direction, instead hopping to put out one fire after another.

to win the next election, the conservatives need a new leader and a new cabinet who can regroup and again present an actually cogent tory vision of politics. that will mean appealing to their heartlands base who want lower taxes, better rates for business, fewer regulations and less brexit faff, etc. mark my words, not even the lifelong conservatives will be happy for long seeing a BoJo executive and exchequer continually raising taxes and giving handouts to plebs.

it's simply unprecedented that this guy has taken a bumper supermajority in parliament, a carte blanche to do exactly what he wanted, and within a few years he is looking at being booted out by his very own party. a shorter term and less support than theresa may. a bigger cabinet revolt than even the infamous thatcher assassination. covid aside, which obviously was an exceptional situation, it's just quite staggering how badly he has botched it. and every single thing derives almost directly from the top: from the character of the man, from his lying and mendacious leadership style, and from the moral rot that set into his executive office and dripped down through the party. from the evil machiavel dominic cummings to all the dodgy, nonce MPs he has supported and tried to duck through controversies ... genuinely astonishing. since the start of this year every month has had a controversy that would have ended any previous government that had some decency and decorum. truly our own trump.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-06 12:13:46)

uziq
Member
+475|2876
some great media takes. what a day.



uziq
Member
+475|2876
thank god, he's gone.

the best political news from the UK in more than a couple of years – and what a bad few years it has been.

of course, the next one has every potential to be just as bad, if not worse in that they might actually even be competent at it.

a new leader of the tories should galvanize labour into getting their house in order. they'll have to come up with some actual policy now. no good spanking the naughty schoolboy at PMQs once a week and talking about 'tory sleaze'. time to get an actual fucking programme together.

this little political drama almost allowed us to forget the colossal looming shit-fuck that is brexit/the NI protocol. oh well.

may none of BoJo's lacklustre team ever appear in frontbench politics again. no more of the snivelling weasels like shapps and raab. no more quasi-fascist matrons like patel. no more soi disant edwardian aristocrats like rees-mogg. oh my god! we never have to think about jacob fucking rees-mogg again. there's a victory in-itself.

BoJo's lot were the very bottom of the 'hard brexit'/'get brexit done' barrel. now they're out. let's hope whoever takes it up next walks back someway towards theresa may's deal and some semblance of sanity. let the ERG and the populists be forever on the out. FUCK off!

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-07 02:11:57)

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