unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

Military tabloids here are promoting it. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/flashp … hat-to-do/

I feel uneasy at the prospect of American volunteers killed or captured by Russia, possibly used as hostages.

e:

By contrast,

White House discouraging Americans from fighting in Ukraine
https://thehill.com/policy/internationa … in-ukraine

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-03-06 10:46:20)

uziq
Member
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

The religious bent is always interesting considering bombed churches (and that as the least of what Christians should be worried about in war).
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3959
Uzique and Newbie should hold a vigil for the Russian economy since they spend so much time lamenting the sanctions.

The Russians cursed themselves and subsequent generations through this betrayal of their brothers. No better than Cain killing Abel. The Z is the mark of the beast.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+496|3692
i'm equivocal about the sanctions, though i admit they're the best tools we have.

but it's probably inevitably dragging us into ww3. this situation will deteriorate fast.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3959
World War 3 will be a good thing. That is when Jesus will come back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consecration_of_Russia
In August 1941, Sister Lúcia wrote her third memoir in which she described the apparition of 13 July 1917. She said that the Virgin told them:

"God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The [First World] war is going to end; if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the communion of reparation on the first Saturday's. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace. If not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world."
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
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SuperJail Warden wrote:

Uzique and Newbie should hold a vigil for the Russian economy since they spend so much time lamenting the sanctions.

The Russians cursed themselves and subsequent generations through this betrayal of their brothers. No better than Cain killing Abel. The Z is the mark of the beast.
I've mentioned before that at the very least people should stop acting so ghoulishly delighted about it all. I think people in the western world are largely trapped in a mindset that conflict is a thing that happens to other countries, and stays in other countries. Even pig-ignorant, in their bloodthirstiness for human suffering, of how the effects of this is spilling/going to spill into the international community.

I'll add that I feel Ukraine is justified to defend itself and petition for boons, but the atmosphere here in the US is starting to feel a little post-9/11-y. We just got out of Afghanistan and already we're that warsick? Americans in support of even actions that could lead to nuclear war.

Not a propaganda win, anyway. How must it all look to the Russian people who are already drenched in pro-Putin, pro-invasion propaganda? "They hate you" is a very familiar line, isn't it? Curb your enthusiasm a tad.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-03-06 17:39:03)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3959
I think the Europeans have been awakened to the fact that war "can happen here". That's probably why they are so serious about the sanctions. The people who wrote all of them up know what effects they will have on one and all.

I am not prowling the internet for videos of Russian mom's struggling at grocery stores. I think it is a rookie move to focus on the effects that sanctions have on average Russian quality of life. Crashing their economy and isolating them will constrain their ability to commit trouble outside their borders. RuAF can't bomb Syrian hospitals if the government can't afford to replace all of the munitions they will waste in Ukraine for instance. Much harder to promote conspiracies online when Facebook is disconnected and can't take Russian ad money. etc.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

"being unable

to buy food

is unproblematic"

er...


Remember when France opposed our invasion of Iraq and we renamed a whole side dish in our outrage, alongside the general revival of anti-French attitudes?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i'm equivocal about the sanctions, though i admit they're the best tools we have.

but it's probably inevitably dragging us into ww3. this situation will deteriorate fast.
It can go either way, maybe unite the Russians against us

Depends entirely on the infowar.

4300 Russian war protestors arrested on Sunday alone

Anonymous hacked the TV stations and showed footage of the war.

We might get there.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

For years Americans on this forum have been yelled at by Europeans for our aggressive foreign policy and "bloated" military budgets. We were told the age of national armies and wars were behind us. We were told we were destabilizing the world and making it harder for Westerners. Well, the Russians are about to annex Crimea like Hitler did Poland and suddenly all the Europeans are screaming for us to do something.

Europeans complained for years that we were spending too much money on our military. They told us we didn't have to be the police of the world. The Nordic assholes on here especially. You people all told us that you didn't need our protection and that we were paranoid. You said that Russia would never start a war in Europe. Well, where are you today?

All of Europe joined NATO to protect themselves from Russia aggression but you never did your part. You spent all your money on social welfare programs and neglected your defense spending. You thought it was cute when you couldn't destroy Libyan tanks or had enough missiles to bombard Syria. You laughed when we said you wouldn't be prepared for an attack by a reforming Russia. You said it would never come. Well, here it is.

Ukrainians rioted and moaned when their government was in negations to join NATO. Black bloc protesters fought with the police when we offered to extend our protection to their country. Where are the black bloc protesters now? Dead. Shot down by their Russia supporting former leaders.

So tell me what you want us to do now? I would find it delightful to watch the Europeans struggle to repel Russian military from Ukraine. But my sympathy for the Ukrainian people and their desire to sit at the table of western states prevents me from sitting on the sidelines.

From this day forward, Europeans lose any right they have to complain about U.S. foreign policy. The only Europeans I would consider listening to about foreign affairs are the British and French. The only two countries who were wise enough not to completely forget the long history of warfare and death that has spawned from that continent.

So I ask you, what would you like us to do Europe?
Macbeth's OP

I think the British at least have done their bit.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
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If Russia had a mutual defense organization that neighboring countries wanted to join, maybe NATO wouldn't have been on their doorstep.

Video from a Russia channel:


don't mind the throwaway clickbait thumbnail, that's just youtube reality

I remember this old conversation coming up a few years ago. It's coming up a lot now.

transcript: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static … n5.mar.txt
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
If being part of the USSR had been great they wouldn't have wanted independence.

If Russia hadn't been rampaging across Chechnya, Georgia etc and causing trouble in other places those countries probably wouldn't have thought of joining NATO.

'The West' has spent 20 years trying to deal with the ME, I don't think harassing Russia has been a priority.

20 Years of brutal Putinism have delivered this situation, its all on him.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
A Russian news agency has published and then deleted an article prematurely praising Russia's success in invading Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240

https://thefrontierpost.com/the-new-world-order/

Petr Akopov

A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia’s military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era – and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system – but this is worth talking about separately a little later.
Russia is restoring its unity – the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together – in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia – for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, that is, the creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine and an outpost for the West to put pressure on us, is only the second most important among them.
The first would always be the complex of a divided people, the complex of national humiliation – when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev), and then was forced to come to terms with the existence of two states, not one, but two peoples. That is, either to abandon their history, agreeing with the insane versions that “only Ukraine is the real Russia,” or to gnash one’s teeth helplessly, remembering the ti-mes when “we lost Ukra-ine.” Returning Ukraine, that is, turning it back to Russia, would be more and more difficult with every decade – recoding, de-Rus-sification of Russians and inciting Ukrainian Little Russians against Russians would gain momentum. Now this problem is gone – Ukraine has returned to Russia.
This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. In what borders, in what form will the alliance with Russia be fixed (through the CSTO and the Eurasian Union or the Union State of Russia and Belarus)? This will be decided after the end is put in the history of Ukraine as anti-Russia. In any case, the period of the split of the Russian people is coming to an end.

And here begins the second dimension of the coming new era – it concerns Russia’s relations with the West. Not even Russia, but the Russian world, that is, three states, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, acting in geopolitical terms as a single whole.
These relations have entered a new stage – the West sees the return of Russia to its historical borders in Europe. And he is loudly indignant at this, although in the depths of his soul he must admit to himself that it could not be otherwise.

Did someone in the old European capitals, in Paris and Berlin, seriously believe that Moscow would give up Kiev ? That the Russians will forever be a divided people? And at the same time when Europe is uniting, when the German and French elites are trying to seize control of Eur-opean integration from the Anglo-Saxons and assemble a united Europe? Forg-etting that the unification of Europe became possible only thanks to the unificati-on of Germany, which happened according to the good Russian (albeit not very smart) will. To swipe after that also on Russian lands is not even the height of ingratitude, but of ge-opolitical stupidity. The W-est as a whole, and even m-ore so Europe in particular, did not have the strength to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, and even more so to take Ukraine for itself. In order not to understand this, one had to be just geopolitical fools.

More precisely, there was only one option: to bet on the further collapse of Russia, that is, the Russian Federation. But the fact that it did not work should have been clear twenty years ago. And already fifteen years ago, after Putin’s Munich speech, even the deaf could hear – Russia is returning.
Now the West is trying to punish Russia for the fact that it returned, for not justifying its plans to profit at its expense, for not allowing the expansion of the western space to the east. Seeking to punish us, the West thinks that relations with it are of vital importa-nce to us. But this has not been the case for a long ti-me – the world has changed, and this is well understood not only by Europeans, but also by the Anglo-Saxons who rule the West.
No amount of Western pressure on Russia will lead to anything. There will be losses from the sublimation of confrontation on both sides, but Russia is ready for them morally and geopolitically. But for the West itself, an increase in the degree of confrontation incurs huge costs – and the main ones are not at all economic.
Europe, as part of the West, wanted autonomy – the German project of European integration does not make strategic sense while maintaining the Anglo-Saxon ideological, military and geopolitical control over the Old World. Yes, and it cannot be successful, because the Anglo-Saxons need a controlled Europe.

But Europe needs autonomy for another reason as well — in case the States go into self-isolation (as a result of growing internal conflicts and contradictions) or focus on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical center of gravity is moving.
But the confrontation with Russia, into which the Anglo-Saxons are dragging Europe, deprives the Europeans of even the chance of independence – not to mention the fact that in the same way Europe is trying to impose a break with China. If now the Atlanticists are happy that the “Russian threat” will unite the Western bloc, then in Berlin and Paris they cannot fail to understand that, having lost hope for autonomy, the European project will simply collapse in the medium term.

That is why independent-minded Europeans are now completely uninterested in building a new iron curtain on their eastern borders – realizing that it will turn into a corral for Europe.
Whose century (more precisely, half a millennium) of global leadership is over in any case – but various options for its future are still possible.
Because the construction of a new world order – and this is the third dimension of current events – is accelerating, and its contours are more and more clearly visible through the spreading cover of Anglo-Saxon globalization.
A multipolar world has finally become a reality – the operation in Ukraine is not capable of rallying anyone but the West against Russia.
Because the rest of the world sees and understands perfectly well – this is a conflict between Russia and the West, this is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, this is Russia’s return of its historical space and its place in the world.
China and India, Latin America and Africa, the Islamic world and Southeast Asia – no one believes that the West leads the world order, much less sets the rules of the game. Russia has not only challenged the West, it has shown that the era of Western global domination can be considered completely and finally over.

The new world will be built by all civilizations and centers of power, naturally, together with the West (united or not) – but not on its terms and not according to its rules.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-03-07 00:30:07)

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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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Pretty sure that would have been written by the Kremlin, sets out their actual agenda.

Poor bloody Ukrainians, suffering for this David Koresh level gibberish.

Basically seems to be "Make Russia Great Again", like it was in the '50s

Are all boomers stupid?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-03-07 04:44:44)

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uziq
Member
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https://twitter.com/rt_com/status/15008 … 26624?s=21

yep, russia has its own trumpers. similarly fed a fatty diet of insular media.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
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Dilbert, you are very close to boomer age yourself to be going on about boomers like that, and definitely not immune to propaganda yourself. I'm sure there's Russians half your age with Z bumper stickers.
uziq
Member
+496|3692
putin purposefully raised a ‘youth organisation’ in the boom years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashi_(youth_movement)

it’s absolutely not confined to a generation. nor is soviet nostalgia either tbh. are the only people guilty of imperial nostalgia in the UK born in the victorian era?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
People would look back at the past and remember they felt better then - because they were young, not realising the times weren't better.
As a psychopath I guess what Putin remembers most fondly about the glory days of the USSR would be the amount of power over other people's lives he and his cronies had.
I can't believe there's anything else the average Russian would want to go back to.
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uziq
Member
+496|3692
this really isn't about people who 'were there' and 'remember it fondly'. most forms of soviet nostalgia are heavily stalinist in tone and character. it's the reputations and iconography of the USSR as its peak/world war glory that is being appealed to, not the long queues and economic stagnation of the later years. most people simply were not there at all (and the whole world at this point has seen images of seniors who were at the siege of stalingrad, etc, being manhandled into the back of police vans for protesting against the current war).

nationalism is about invented pasts, in the main, an admixture of national mythology and material history. 90% of the people who voted brexit and claimed we could 'recapture past glories', adverting to ww2 and the blitz spirit, and so on, were most certainly never fucking there. this sense of the past is powerful and suggestive precisely because it is vague, not experienced in the concrete.

everyone is nostalgic about their childhood, i guess that's a potent emotional force in any sort of politics. but i don't think it's really relevant to the ideology of putinism.

As a psychopath I guess what Putin remembers
putin was practically a ward of the state. he grew up practically as an orphan, without the love of his parents. the security apparatus and bureaucracy of the USSR 'raised' him and shaped him. is the result psychopathic? well, yes. but you can see why he personally remembers it fondly. the authoritarian state is practically a daddy figure.

Last edited by uziq (2022-03-08 03:07:32)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
The world only took notice of Russia when it was throwing its weight around and making threats of mass destruction, I think thats a large part of the issue.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

putin was practically a ward of the state. he grew up practically as an orphan, without the love of his parents. the security apparatus and bureaucracy of the USSR 'raised' him and shaped him. is the result psychopathic? well, yes. but you can see why he personally remembers it fondly. the authoritarian state is practically a daddy figure.
Then he joined the KGB and the KGB got to disappear people, not him maybe.
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uziq
Member
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the KGB was responsible for raising him, effectively, shaping him emotionally as well as his worldview and outlook.

he spent most of his 20s inside the institution. his 30s as a mid-level officer in east germany during some of the most pivotal days in soviet history, etc.

surprisingly these things can really shape people, more so than the books they read for 3 years whilst breezing through an undergraduate degree.

Last edited by uziq (2022-03-08 03:19:21)

uziq
Member
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNUmLdKXIAIhLSr?format=jpg&name=small

the good old days.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
Blair's arm around him is photoshopped, look at the fingers.
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