So cut the numbers to a few hundred per week and have a cast iron system.
Fuck Israel
yes, let's only allow a few hundred people a week to travel, for perpetuity.
makes total sense when we have vaccines, medication and measures to greatly reduce the risk of serious illness/death.
let's just choke business and restrict freedom for everyone, forever.
great idea! i can't believe that a single world government haven't elected to pursue this strategy. even china, with their famous love of unfreedom.
makes total sense when we have vaccines, medication and measures to greatly reduce the risk of serious illness/death.
let's just choke business and restrict freedom for everyone, forever.
great idea! i can't believe that a single world government haven't elected to pursue this strategy. even china, with their famous love of unfreedom.
Doesn't choke business at all, the net effect of everyone travelling is zero.
The effect of endless outbreaks and people actually becoming disabled and dying is far more severe.
The effect of endless outbreaks and people actually becoming disabled and dying is far more severe.
Fuck Israel
we have already covered in length about 3 pages ago that restricting travel has a huge impact on the economy. it makes the cost of business go up in every single way.
you ‘refuted’ it by saying something vaguely conspiratorial about how the services and white-collar businesses just overcharge anyway, or something.
nope, sorry dilbert. we are not having it.
you ‘refuted’ it by saying something vaguely conspiratorial about how the services and white-collar businesses just overcharge anyway, or something.
nope, sorry dilbert. we are not having it.
Tell me how not travelling puts up business costs.
I personally saved tens of thousands of dollars, tons of kerosene, hundreds of non-wasted travel hours and reckon I got work done more efficiently and effectively by avoiding travel wherever possible, had more hours for productive output, was using webex from day one and it was a godsend.
Travelling is for salesmen, and much of that is wasted.
I personally saved tens of thousands of dollars, tons of kerosene, hundreds of non-wasted travel hours and reckon I got work done more efficiently and effectively by avoiding travel wherever possible, had more hours for productive output, was using webex from day one and it was a godsend.
Travelling is for salesmen, and much of that is wasted.
Fuck Israel
Never mind emergency workers, whats important here is that Alan Joyce has enough money to fund the Liberal party.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-27/ … /100725954
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-27/ … /100725954
Fuck Israel
normally i haven't paid much attention to celebrity endorsements or opposition to medical stuff, but til/noticed/was reminded that jim carrey is antivax, and has been for a long time. fml.
he says he isn't anti-vax (the usual line), but he wants all the toxins taken out of vaccines, thinks they cause autism, that sort of thing. i'll accept that maybe he was just swept up in the nonsense, but he is being the mouthpiece and has had the resources at his disposal to get educated, so my sympathies there are limited.
he's in a bit of a weird position considering he was also criticizing trump's pandemic response.
he says he isn't anti-vax (the usual line), but he wants all the toxins taken out of vaccines, thinks they cause autism, that sort of thing. i'll accept that maybe he was just swept up in the nonsense, but he is being the mouthpiece and has had the resources at his disposal to get educated, so my sympathies there are limited.
he's in a bit of a weird position considering he was also criticizing trump's pandemic response.
restricting travel increases the cost for many businesses, not just salesmen. ffs dilbert.Dilbert_X wrote:
Tell me how not travelling puts up business costs.
I personally saved tens of thousands of dollars, tons of kerosene, hundreds of non-wasted travel hours and reckon I got work done more efficiently and effectively by avoiding travel wherever possible, had more hours for productive output, was using webex from day one and it was a godsend.
Travelling is for salesmen, and much of that is wasted.
70% of all air freight goes in the cargo holds of passenger planes. do you know what happens when thousands of passenger planes are grounded and flights operate at 5% their normal level, as happened in the last few lockdowns? yeah, the cost of air freight goes up.
use your fucking thick head and think about the global system in terms of more than ‘gawping tourists on beaches’ and 1950s ‘travelling salesmen’.
Last edited by uziq (2021-12-27 01:01:39)
it’s really quaint how you keep confusing australian politics and hyperspecific australian matters for the world. a country of 25 million … a state of 6 million … oh yes, it’s the illuminati … oh no, why can’t everyone manage like my tiny state …Dilbert_X wrote:
Never mind emergency workers, whats important here is that Alan Joyce has enough money to fund the Liberal party.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-27/ … /100725954
with regards to health systems being swamped every winter, yes, you’re right that we are seeing the results of 20-30 years of neoliberal stripmining and ideological defunding/sell offs. there’s no reason why rich western nations should have such thinly stretched health systems other than a business-led ideology of maximum efficiency and no reserves/buffers. it’s not a sign of covid’s unique strength and worry; the pandemic is merely the first stressor to come along and reveal the inanity of systematically cutting funding for public services for years and calling it ‘good’ politics.
Last edited by uziq (2021-12-27 01:17:04)
wHeRe Is ThE MoNeY gOiNg tO CoMe FrOm?
hyperspecific things to a tiny state that couldn't even bother to muster up a name. they just settled on "south australia"uziq wrote:
it’s really quaint how you keep confusing australian politics and hyperspecific australian matters for the world. a country of 25 million … a state of 6 million … oh yes, it’s the illuminati … oh no, why can’t everyone manage like my tiny state …Dilbert_X wrote:
Never mind emergency workers, whats important here is that Alan Joyce has enough money to fund the Liberal party.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-27/ … /100725954
https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/ … prices.htmDilbert_X wrote:
Tell me how not travelling puts up business costs.
saying the risk would not be "worth the cost" is not the same as "there's no impact on business costs"Typically, about 45 percent to 50 percent of air freight is transported in the bellies of passenger planes, but in April 2020, 75 percent of this air freight capacity was removed from the market due to a severe reduction in air travel.1
i guess DHL, Fedex and UPS didn't have any profit increases due to shift in air freight right?
Last edited by Cybargs (2021-12-27 05:12:21)
we also talked extensively about how imposing restrictions on the movement of people internationally has totally crippled the australian university system. rather than deal with this actual fact and countenance the situation, of course dilbert prefers to moan in his favourite mode, that of the logical natural fallacy: 'well the australian system SHOULD rely only on native tuition fees', etc. he makes his 'should's do an awful lot of work in these discussions, effectively glossing over the actual complex reality.
'show me how travel bans affect business', lol literally your entire higher-education sector has been paralysed by the drying up of international students coming to australia.
'show me how travel bans affect business', lol literally your entire higher-education sector has been paralysed by the drying up of international students coming to australia.
Last edited by uziq (2021-12-27 05:19:11)
dilbs hates "big government" too much to vote for any funding to go into the unis either lmao. massive cognitive dissonance to think travel shut down doesnt have an impact on the economy when even the fed govt is kicking and screaming to open the border.uziq wrote:
we also talked extensively about how imposing restrictions on the movement of people internationally has totally crippled the australian university system. rather than deal with this actual fact and countenance the situation, of course dilbert prefers to moan in his favourite mode, that of the logical natural fallacy: 'well the australian system SHOULD rely only on native tuition fees', etc. he makes his 'should's do an awful lot of work in these discussions, effectively glossing over the actual complex reality.
'show me how travel bans affect business', lol literally your entire higher-education sector has been paralysed by the drying up of international students coming to australia.
australia basically went into covid fortress after the feds completely botched the quarantine system (hey lets let the states do it! not my responsibility!). not to mention were the only country that banned citizens and PRs from leaving and entering Australia. 10/10 for a government that wanted to open up yet also locked people out from coming back.
overally id rate the entire approach in australia as a 9/10 and it wasnt via good systems either, we mostly lucked our way out of bad spots.
re: the earlier discussion about vaccine inequality.
it makes me laugh so much when germans like larssen - a state which has been doing more than its fair share of weightshifting in support of global pharma companies and their intellectual property rights - say that global vaccine drives are a default 'lost cause'.
the projected cost of vaccinating the entire global south is about $20 billion.
meanwhile, in mainz, where biontech are registered to pay their city tax, the german city officials are rubbing their hands with glee over a $1.5 billion dollar tax windfall in the last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ … as-present
this is allowing them to pay off a disastrous spot of loaning and failed investment in the city finances from the early 90s. fucking hilarious how vastly unequal the whole system is. i have no problem with biontech paying their corporation tax, of course, and filing their papers in their country of origin. but what the fuck ... the spectacle of german burghers rubbing their hands together and talking about 'making mainz a future tech hub' using their tax 'cinderella story', is pretty fucking distasteful when just 15x that sum of money, for a small provincial town's tax ledger, would contribute massively to solving global vaccine inequality.
really makes you wonder why germans are so keen to stress that vaccinating the world, or letting manufacturers in africa or south america manage their own supply, is a hopeless endeavour. lmao. how convenient, and how great for the formerly bankrupt and ineptly governed city of mainz.
it makes me laugh so much when germans like larssen - a state which has been doing more than its fair share of weightshifting in support of global pharma companies and their intellectual property rights - say that global vaccine drives are a default 'lost cause'.
the projected cost of vaccinating the entire global south is about $20 billion.
meanwhile, in mainz, where biontech are registered to pay their city tax, the german city officials are rubbing their hands with glee over a $1.5 billion dollar tax windfall in the last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ … as-present
this is allowing them to pay off a disastrous spot of loaning and failed investment in the city finances from the early 90s. fucking hilarious how vastly unequal the whole system is. i have no problem with biontech paying their corporation tax, of course, and filing their papers in their country of origin. but what the fuck ... the spectacle of german burghers rubbing their hands together and talking about 'making mainz a future tech hub' using their tax 'cinderella story', is pretty fucking distasteful when just 15x that sum of money, for a small provincial town's tax ledger, would contribute massively to solving global vaccine inequality.
really makes you wonder why germans are so keen to stress that vaccinating the world, or letting manufacturers in africa or south america manage their own supply, is a hopeless endeavour. lmao. how convenient, and how great for the formerly bankrupt and ineptly governed city of mainz.
Last edited by uziq (2021-12-27 05:30:51)
https://twitter.com/StevenEdginton/stat … 3063684103
classic culture war commentary from the telegraph's 'anti-woke history' brigade. some fine minds over there.
classic culture war commentary from the telegraph's 'anti-woke history' brigade. some fine minds over there.
Right so universities are business now? That 'economy' functioned perfectly without international students, that they bloated themselves and then got burst is too bad.
The question was how do travel restrictions affect normal business activity, not the flow of customers.
Apparently NZ hasn't given up at all, native NZ citizens are still struggling to return home as the quarantine system has been sized to suit what works, not according to demand.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-28/ … /100719636
The question was how do travel restrictions affect normal business activity, not the flow of customers.
Apparently NZ hasn't given up at all, native NZ citizens are still struggling to return home as the quarantine system has been sized to suit what works, not according to demand.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-28/ … /100719636
Fuck Israel
I don't understand, costs went up at the same time as profits?Cybargs wrote:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/ … prices.htmDilbert_X wrote:
Tell me how not travelling puts up business costs.saying the risk would not be "worth the cost" is not the same as "there's no impact on business costs"Typically, about 45 percent to 50 percent of air freight is transported in the bellies of passenger planes, but in April 2020, 75 percent of this air freight capacity was removed from the market due to a severe reduction in air travel.1
i guess DHL, Fedex and UPS didn't have any profit increases due to shift in air freight right?
https://www.reuters.com/business/fedex- … 021-03-18/Fiscal third-quarter adjusted net income at the Memphis-based company soared 153% from a year earlier to $939 million, or $3.47 per share, beating analyst expectations of $3.23 per share, according to Refinitiv data.
Revenue for the quarter ended Feb. 28 grew 23% to $21.5 billion, boosted by a half billion holiday package deliveries and COVID-19 vaccines shipments.
Seems like there's no problem.
Fuck Israel
Well seems like oxford university hasn't released its patent either. Neither has China. Or russia. Or india. Or anyone really. There were over 200 trial vaccines against covid 19 a year ago. What happened?uziq wrote:
re: the earlier discussion about vaccine inequality.
it makes me laugh so much when germans like larssen - a state which has been doing more than its fair share of weightshifting in support of global pharma companies and their intellectual property rights - say that global vaccine drives are a default 'lost cause'.
the projected cost of vaccinating the entire global south is about $20 billion.
meanwhile, in mainz, where biontech are registered to pay their city tax, the german city officials are rubbing their hands with glee over a $1.5 billion dollar tax windfall in the last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ … as-present
this is allowing them to pay off a disastrous spot of loaning and failed investment in the city finances from the early 90s. fucking hilarious how vastly unequal the whole system is. i have no problem with biontech paying their corporation tax, of course, and filing their papers in their country of origin. but what the fuck ... the spectacle of german burghers rubbing their hands together and talking about 'making mainz a future tech hub' using their tax 'cinderella story', is pretty fucking distasteful when just 15x that sum of money, for a small provincial town's tax ledger, would contribute massively to solving global vaccine inequality.
really makes you wonder why germans are so keen to stress that vaccinating the world, or letting manufacturers in africa or south america manage their own supply, is a hopeless endeavour. lmao. how convenient, and how great for the formerly bankrupt and ineptly governed city of mainz.
I never argued vaccine protectionism, as you well know. I argued that the logistics would be the issue. Ultimately neither money or production would be the main obstacle - it's distribution. You said in another thread you have no interest visiting places like colombia or thailand. These are still quite developed on a global scale. Try any random african country, or some parts of south east asia. Perhaps the -stans. You'll realise immediately it's a huge complicated effort. 20 billion USD will not vaccinate the poorest 3 billion, you still need all the people to distribute it.
Regardless, again, I never argued for vaccine protectionism.
Last edited by Larssen (2021-12-27 15:06:58)
erm, universities are not wholly state-funded and of course they operate as least partly as 'businesses': they charge fees.Dilbert_X wrote:
Right so universities are business now? That 'economy' functioned perfectly without international students, that they bloated themselves and then got burst is too bad.
The question was how do travel restrictions affect normal business activity, not the flow of customers.
Apparently NZ hasn't given up at all, native NZ citizens are still struggling to return home as the quarantine system has been sized to suit what works, not according to demand.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-28/ … /100719636
the shortfall in international students caused financial strain for the higher-education sector. that's because it's semi-private and relies upon international students' fees, apparently to a high degree in places like australia.
wow how shady and rubbish can you get at arguing?
'show me how banning travel affects the economy'.
[points to large and notable example]
'oh, universities are part of the economy now, huh?'
NZ have announced multiple times this winter that they are abandoning 'zero covid' and any sort of suppression strategy. that they, like most of the world, are back onto a temporary emergency setting because of omicron/winter surge is hardly evidence that they're aiming for 'zero covid' once again. they are not. stop being so fucking obtuse. yes, travel, like workplaces, public venues, nightclubs, large social gatherings, etc, have all been temporarily restricted once again this winter. that doesn't lend any credibility to your idea to extend it indefinitely or to use severe measures to 'pre-empt' new variants. NZ are not going to do that. this will all change quite promptly in the new year and coming spring.Apparently NZ hasn't given up at all, native NZ citizens are still struggling to return home as the quarantine system has been sized to suit what works, not according to demand.
Last edited by uziq (2021-12-27 15:50:57)
actually lots of those trial vaccines are coming on-line, just you don't hear much about them.Larssen wrote:
Well seems like oxford university hasn't released its patent either. Neither has China. Or russia. Or india. Or anyone really. There were over 200 trial vaccines against covid 19 a year ago. What happened?uziq wrote:
re: the earlier discussion about vaccine inequality.
it makes me laugh so much when germans like larssen - a state which has been doing more than its fair share of weightshifting in support of global pharma companies and their intellectual property rights - say that global vaccine drives are a default 'lost cause'.
the projected cost of vaccinating the entire global south is about $20 billion.
meanwhile, in mainz, where biontech are registered to pay their city tax, the german city officials are rubbing their hands with glee over a $1.5 billion dollar tax windfall in the last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ … as-present
this is allowing them to pay off a disastrous spot of loaning and failed investment in the city finances from the early 90s. fucking hilarious how vastly unequal the whole system is. i have no problem with biontech paying their corporation tax, of course, and filing their papers in their country of origin. but what the fuck ... the spectacle of german burghers rubbing their hands together and talking about 'making mainz a future tech hub' using their tax 'cinderella story', is pretty fucking distasteful when just 15x that sum of money, for a small provincial town's tax ledger, would contribute massively to solving global vaccine inequality.
really makes you wonder why germans are so keen to stress that vaccinating the world, or letting manufacturers in africa or south america manage their own supply, is a hopeless endeavour. lmao. how convenient, and how great for the formerly bankrupt and ineptly governed city of mainz.
the AZ vaccine was distributed with essentially no profit margins until the last quarter of 2021. in the early emergency stages of the pandemic they precisely did give it away at cost price. compare the annual profits of AZ versus pfizer ($1 billion profits versus 10 or 20 times that for the other major producers).
notably, AZ also signed a major subcontract with the serum institute of india, which is the biggest vaccine manufacturer in the world. the european/american private companies didn't do that. as per the lancet:
this is a shitty picture that needs to change. but apparently it's more important for mainz to clear their atrocious debts and to renovate their football stadium. /shrug.13 EU member states account for more than 60% of the world's major facilities for vaccine production and 90% of global vaccine production
lmao what sort of ridiculous bullshit deflection is this? i don't want to go those places because they are riddled with skeevy sex tourists and are not very commodious places for a digital worker to live and work from. my personal choice of lifestyle and my career/personal requirements have very little to fucking do with the capabilities of african or latin american countries to manufacture their own vaccines.You said in another thread you have no interest visiting places like colombia or thailand.
not clever.
Last edited by uziq (2021-12-27 15:44:59)
Except thats not what I saiduziq wrote:
wow how shady and rubbish can you get at arguing?
'show me how banning travel affects the economy'.
[points to large and notable example]
'oh, universities are part of the economy now, huh?'
Costs =/= IncomeDilbert_X wrote:
Tell me how not travelling puts up business costs.
Business =/= Universities
Your reading comprehension is terrible, have you considered going to college?
Indeed
Except they haven't, they've done the opposite, there are still NZers who can't get home after two years of waiting and its being made harder.NZ have announced multiple times this winter that they are abandoning 'zero covid' and any sort of suppression strategy. that they, like most of the world, are back onto a temporary emergency setting because of omicron/winter surge is hardly evidence that they're aiming for 'zero covid' once again. they are not. stop being so fucking obtuse. yes, travel, like workplaces, public venues, nightclubs, large social gatherings, etc, have all been temporarily restricted once again this winter. that doesn't lend any credibility to your idea to extend it indefinitely or to use severe measures to 'pre-empt' new variants. NZ are not going to do that. this will all change quite promptly in the new year and coming spring.Apparently NZ hasn't given up at all, native NZ citizens are still struggling to return home as the quarantine system has been sized to suit what works, not according to demand.
Also its summer in NZ - how do you not know this?
Fuck Israel
point is that you continually don't want to understand why I'm saying that 40-50% vaccinated globally is probably the best you can hope for. Oh if we throw enough money it'll happen. If we freely open all vaccine patents it'll happen. No it won't. All the way through the sahel, down to congo and even mozambique - even large parts of brazil, china, parts of SEA as I told you. There's over a billion people who live remotely in an abject poverty you wouldn't believe. Besides getting the vaccine there, it'll be another enormous effort to convince all these people to even take it. I don't even want to think about booster shots. The idea that we're going to conquer covid if only enough people globally get vaccinated is a complete pipedream.
dilbert people have already told you how restricting travel increases the costs of doing businesses. there have been oodles of reports on this.
the effects to the economy are huge and yet you keep trying to make out they are, quote, non-existent. what utter tosh. as if suddenly decoupling from the global system will have no negative effects on the economy/business/trade (take your pick). i mean what an entirely farcical argument to pursue. ‘travel is only for tourists and salesmen’.
clearly i know the southern hemisphere have flipped seasons. but it’s christmas time, i’m surrounded by snow, and most people conventionally understand the last quarter of the year as ‘winter’. you know what i meant. restrictions will relax as soon as this latest surge has levelled off. the NZ government announced several times in ‘autumn’ (sigh) that they are intending to gradually reopen.
no country on earth is still pursuing zero covid or a heavy suppression strategy. even china are talking about gradually reopening borders after the olympics.
the effects to the economy are huge and yet you keep trying to make out they are, quote, non-existent. what utter tosh. as if suddenly decoupling from the global system will have no negative effects on the economy/business/trade (take your pick). i mean what an entirely farcical argument to pursue. ‘travel is only for tourists and salesmen’.
clearly i know the southern hemisphere have flipped seasons. but it’s christmas time, i’m surrounded by snow, and most people conventionally understand the last quarter of the year as ‘winter’. you know what i meant. restrictions will relax as soon as this latest surge has levelled off. the NZ government announced several times in ‘autumn’ (sigh) that they are intending to gradually reopen.
no country on earth is still pursuing zero covid or a heavy suppression strategy. even china are talking about gradually reopening borders after the olympics.
nobody is talking about reaching 100% vaccination.Larssen wrote:
point is that you continually don't want to understand why I'm saying that 40-50% vaccinated globally is probably the best you can hope for. Oh if we throw enough money it'll happen. If we freely open all vaccine patents it'll happen. No it won't. All the way through the sahel, down to congo and even mozambique - even large parts of brazil, china, parts of SEA as I told you. There's over a billion people who live remotely in an abject poverty you wouldn't believe. Besides getting the vaccine there, it'll be another enormous effort to convince all these people to even take it. I don't even want to think about booster shots. The idea that we're going to conquer covid if only enough people globally get vaccinated is a complete pipedream.
nobody is talking about ‘conquering’ covid.
we are saying that a great number of people are being disallowed access to the vaccine because of supply-side controls and intellectual property finagling. does it matter that vaccines aren’t the magic delivery from this pandemic back to 2018? potentially millions of lives could be saved.
the death rate has been highest in NA/EU, the places which are squatting on the global supply and responsible for the worst sorts of waste/stockpiling. the global south doesn’t even need 85%+ vaccination for there to be significant public health benefits. it probably helps that vast numbers of their middle-aged and elderly aren’t clinically obese or suffering diabetes.