france is just as bad as the UK for a certain type of elite groupthink, just they all went to elite political finishing schools like ENA. if you think the average french person is any happier with the way that macron et al are guiding their 'ideology-free' (LOL) technocratic utopia towards universal happiness, then look to the response of the gilet jaunes to their utterly cackhanded fuel taxation policies, for e.g. germany is similarly in thrall to giant real estate companies and a self-serving business elite, though its constitutional make-up and electoral system are better-equipped than the UK's to counterbalance these special interests, i'll give you that. but all i see there is evidence of tribal cabals with MBAs and master's degrees in public administration ruling in their own self-interests – much as you accuse any other 'tribe' of doing.Dunning-Kruger effect in action, Mao was a moron who thought himself exceptional.
France and Germany are going OK-ish.
mao wasn't the only 'rationalist' guided by scientism who led to mass famine. the soviets did it first. the pattern was repeated, avoidably, in south-east asia. many right-wing militarist dictators in latin america tried to incorporate systems theory and cutting-edge 20th century 'rational' technologies to better build-up their command economies. it didn't work. that's because society is guided by just as many unpredictable, irrational forces as by entirely rational, logical processes. this stuff has been the pipedream of twonks like you and stafford beer for centuries, going all the way back to the original bloodthirsty jacobins and their 'cult of reason'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
the point being, generally, that society has been led off the precipice on any number of occasions by supposedly ideology-free 'experts' or outright ideologues. any time anyone turns up with an ideal to be sought-after or a one-size-fits all theory-of-everything, it leads to the very worst forms of inhumanity. that's because this human business is itself messy, imperfect, improvised; and people with their shiny theories prefer to trim the fat and ugly bits that don't fit into their schemas. that normally means someone suffering or, worse, ending up in camps or starving to death whilst the uncaring authorities watch on and tweak their charts. 'move over and just give my group the keys, we'll do it better this time' is dunderheaded thinking.
after the long 20th century of every sort of totalitarian government, with 'scientism' and 'technology' as their handmaidens throughout, it's clear that elevating science, or engineering, to some podium of 'disinterested, objective' leadership is foolishness of the highest order. your scientific experts are also people, with egos, interests, greed, sin, folly: they're not impervious to all the pitfalls that have befallen every other type of leader throughout history. science and engineering are very narrowly defined practices with a limited scope and methodology, not all-encompassing philosophies of life or systems of government. human societies cannot model themselves after mechanical engineering. it is inane.
better governance involves more participation, more dialogue, and the construction and continual refinement of better consensus-making processes. unfortunately for you – and, pace marx, who you just historically abused above with your technocrats thing – that means bringing in the majority classes who do all the fucking groundwork in society, that hoary old cliché of the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. a truly just and equitable democratic society would involve just as many migrant janitors, working three jobs and at peril of being deported, or second-generation immigrants, as it would involve committees of eggheads from imperial. but you don't like that thought, of actually involving the 'unseemingly' mass of opinion in your little expert's paradise.
Last edited by uziq (2021-11-22 18:53:53)
