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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
Was walking on the way home from the doctor. Two Hasidic men came up to me and asked if I was Jewish. I said no and they said to have a good day. I then asked them what if I was Jewish? They then tried to sell me a bar mitzvah. I declined but told them good luck and to have a nice day. They said thanks and told me to have a good weekend.

What an awful situation I was put into. I felt like my life was in danger. Why are they allowed to go around and ask people's religious affiliation?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
A former Georgia district attorney has been booked on charges linked to her alleged mishandling of the case of Ahmaud Arbery, a Black man who was pursued and gunned down as he jogged through a Brunswick neighborhood last year.

Ex-Glynn County District Attorney Jackie Johnson turned herself in to the Glynn County Sheriff's office Wednesday morning, reports the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, after a grand jury returned an indictment on counts of obstruction and violations of oath by a public officer last week. Johnson was released from the Glynn County Detention Center on a $10,000 bond, the paper reports. State prosecutors alleged that she used her position to delay arrests of the White men who chased and killed the 25-year-old Arbery.
Huh that's super unusual.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

I know it's probably a dumb thing to pick out for comment, but capitalizing race in terms of black, white, is slightly interesting to me.

From: https://blog.ongig.com/diversity-and-in … lize-race/ (this site even has a bias scanner you can run documents through)

The idea I guess that in capitalizing them, they are "no longer colors" and cannot be used to contrast. Although some guides are hesitant to capitalize White because of its connection to white supremacy. "Why is Black capitalized but white is not?" "That clipped text is sneaky Neo-Nazi propaganda because it capitalized White. Oh no, I did it too!"

IMO, this really is putting polish on a turd. It doesn't affect spoken language and barely impacts written. The capital letter does not strip the contrast. Black/White ~ black/white. Never mind that very white or very black people are way more unusual than light brown and dark brown. I think it's probably time to go back to the drawing board.

Unfortunate that the stupid concept of race as some fundamental descriptor and identity tag is a thing that lingers and has to be on the minds of style guide writers.
uziq
Member
+405|2500
jesus christ. every publication will have its own style guide and in many aspects it's more or less arbitrary.

in some publications, like the guardian, they won't capitalise 'Queen' or something and just use 'queen', to reflect their, er, values.

what's more important is a consistency of usage. no one is affecting to change the world by making a letter minuscule or majuscule.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,745|5153|eXtreme to the maX
Vanity Fair is now using 'Black' and 'white'
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

@zeek

This, really. I don't capitalize either of them unless there is some other reason for upper case. As race names go, "white" and "black" are not very special and don't look right to me capitalized as a matter of fact. Fiddling with case is not going to solve racism, and having a thousand style guides with different answers on it is just going to muddle things and distract from Much Needed Conversations.


@dilbs

It's a rather foul mix of two ideas, capitalize to deflect from color contrast or cultural ideas behind the colors, but don't capitalize one because of white supremacists. Having one capitalized and the other not just draws attention to the contrast, and looks quite inconsistent/sloppy.
uziq
Member
+405|2500

Dilbert_X wrote:

Vanity Fair is now using 'Black' and 'white'
yeah, this is dumb. every publication makes up their own rules, and things like capitalization of nouns don't exactly have black-and-white (ahem) rules about it. fashions change, including fashions in grammar and punctuation and typography. a little over a century ago we were capitalizing every single noun, proper or improper. it made for weird-looking type imo, and this example is no different.

at the same time, i'm not going to get perturbed because A Magazine decided to make a political gesture using Black/white. if this is the shit conservatives get upset about, then they deserve all the teasing they get.

Last edited by uziq (2021-09-09 01:23:09)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

This is definitely some of the shit conservatives get upset about. I wouldn't even blink if I got an emailed rant ("I'm not white, I'm American! We're all Americans here!" *years later sees Black capitalized but white not in the same article* *loses shit*). Totally feeds into the manufactured outrage.

GTA talk radio has nothing on IRL programs.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
I feel like they capitalize black because it is still a little rude to call someone black due to the centuries of negative association. We created the unprecise term African Americans awhile ago but that is a mouthful.

As far the White vs white, black vs Black goes, I cringe when I see Black capitalized in an article while white is lower case. (My phone autocorrected the last sentence FWIW.) Either both or none should be capitalized. I capitalize both when writing academic papers.
uziq
Member
+405|2500
i'm more offended by the poorly researched, barely edited books that the right-wing pump out as their part of the 'culture wars'.

what's worse, a magazine taking a stand over an upper-case letter or a fucking NYT bestseller full of tirades against the 'berlin marxists from the franklin school'?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

Both annoying. But the capital stuff is merely irritating. All the alternative facts history and patriotic nationalism published by conservative pundits are worse by far. Although I'm willing to guess that a lot of that stuff gets bought for Christmas or birthdays and then barely or never read. Close my eyes and point to a name on a list of Republican contacts, and I bet a lot of the dusty shelf-wear shelf queens at their house probably make that creaky sound new books sometimes have when first opened.

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