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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
Dude you spent time fishing as a cowboy. I am experiencing my dream: live through the zombie apocalypse as a biker.

I really can't exaggerate how desperate I am to see a city go Raccoon City in real life. That should have been our COVID 19.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5679|949

uziq wrote:

the whole semiconductor supply chain was fucked by the pandemic, afaik. cryto mining is definitely a big factor in the price gouging but ...

i think like 60% of all the world's semiconductors comes from one company in taiwan. not only have they had interruptions due to covid, but also entire production lines had to be torn down and set-up again to cope with shifting demand during the pandemic. and that includes catering to demands for semiconductors in things like cars or white appliances, not just GPUs.

due to the nature of the manufacturing, it's not easy to start-and-stop production on highly sensitive semiconductors. some of the major manufacturers have been trying to pivot to other semiconductor applications in response to pandemic demand shifts (cars, white goods, pc parts, etc) and it takes a significant amount of time and investment each time to do so.

perfect storm. no GPU or modern game is worth $2000. zero.
There's a drought in Taiwan right now too, and semiconductor manufacturing is a water-intensive process.

Most of my company's chip suppliers are quoting 52 week plus lead times to us right now. Some are quoting 78 weeks. And we are probably in the top 5 customers for non-memory suppliers.

This kind of thing happens when the prevailing philosophy of global supply chain management is driven primarily by financial concerns. Lean manufacturing is basic financial risk management and the reality is no amount of forecasting can accurately predict market demand well enough to properly account for dips and surges, no matter how much data you feed the models.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
At least I didn't pay double MSRP for a lumber.
uziq
Member
+405|2500

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

uziq wrote:

the whole semiconductor supply chain was fucked by the pandemic, afaik. cryto mining is definitely a big factor in the price gouging but ...

i think like 60% of all the world's semiconductors comes from one company in taiwan. not only have they had interruptions due to covid, but also entire production lines had to be torn down and set-up again to cope with shifting demand during the pandemic. and that includes catering to demands for semiconductors in things like cars or white appliances, not just GPUs.

due to the nature of the manufacturing, it's not easy to start-and-stop production on highly sensitive semiconductors. some of the major manufacturers have been trying to pivot to other semiconductor applications in response to pandemic demand shifts (cars, white goods, pc parts, etc) and it takes a significant amount of time and investment each time to do so.

perfect storm. no GPU or modern game is worth $2000. zero.
There's a drought in Taiwan right now too, and semiconductor manufacturing is a water-intensive process.

Most of my company's chip suppliers are quoting 52 week plus lead times to us right now. Some are quoting 78 weeks. And we are probably in the top 5 customers for non-memory suppliers.

This kind of thing happens when the prevailing philosophy of global supply chain management is driven primarily by financial concerns. Lean manufacturing is basic financial risk management and the reality is no amount of forecasting can accurately predict market demand well enough to properly account for dips and surges, no matter how much data you feed the models.
good point about the drought and water resources. didn't think of that. it really is a perfect storm ... climate change, pandemic, supply chain management ...

i've read that grandpa biden has got some eggheads to address this problem. over-reliance on 1-2 suppliers, in a risky place like taiwan (or soon to be risky, ahem ...) is not very smart.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

Should somehow float the notion that the Biden administration is bigly stealing and rebranding all of Trump's great ideas, to see if we can get Republicans on board with things that need to happen.

Also it's possible that Mac might have, with his usage in mind, made a good purchase by dint of who knows what the hell slapshod environmental regulation will to to make it unnecessarily difficult even at the component level in the future.

Can't buy a middling alienware, or soon others I guess as companies start to comply, but a mansion can be running computers 24/7 in like 19 different rooms or something. GG.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
The next gaming system I ever get might be a PlayStation 7.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

Playstation 7 will have the processing power of a PS2 to comply with castrated environmental regulation aimed at tackling everyone but big biz industrial wasters, and polluters, and perfectly climate-controlled mansions with walk-in freezers and 100" TV screens.

Your monitors are so wasteful! I bet they even have a high refresh rate, you swine.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
You sound like a Brietbart article. Did one of your coworkers bite you on the arm?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

Lol, just fed up with half measures going after the lowest hanging fruit. Gulf of Mexico on fire, t-shirt factories are expelling poisons into drinking water, but at least we have the peasants drinking out of soggy paper straws. That'll stop the west coast from burning for sure.
uziq
Member
+405|2500
i read that something like 2.7% of cali's energy use is for gaming PCs or something. no idea how they figured that out.

i do see the value in 'nudges' to human behaviour where full-scale lifestyle change seems daunting and impossible.

but transitioning hell-hole emissions factories like the LA road system to public/green transport is probably a better idea than limiting the max PSU size on some teenager's Fortnite rig from 1100W to 750W or whatever.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

A 1100W power supply won't be typically requiring 1100W. See also 80PLUS stuff and ideal power efficiency ranges. I'm not confident lawmakers would sit down to hash this all out properly. If something in the legislation is wonky, you could possibly have pre-builders making less efficient setups to meet arbitrary restrictions. I did see language about what a certain class of PC should or shouldn't consume, regardless of its function.

but transitioning hell-hole emissions factories like the LA road system to public/green transport is probably a better idea than limiting the max PSU size on some teenager's Fortnite rig from 1100W to 750W or whatever.
Yup.

Already providing anti-environmentalists with "I told you so" stuff.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

Mac gets to be mad at paper straws, but I sound like Breitbart. lol
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

Tom's article talking about 6600 XT competing with the $330 RTX 3060 as if the 3060 is $330 anywhere atm. $800 on Newegg (on sale for that, too), $330 for a GTX 1050 at Walmart.

These articles shouldn't really be talking about video cards in terms of primarily MSRP anymore.
uziq
Member
+405|2500
these prices are here to stay, imo.

hugely inflated hardware costs + current-gen games basically being published with a model of 'you pay for the alpha version and we'll maybe finish the game at some point in the future. oh by the way: cash shop and microtransactions' signals a death knell for PC gaming.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
A lot of millennial manchildren now have careers and disposable income to spend on junk etc. Prices of collectable junk and hardware is going to keep going up because millennials aren't having children. I am sure I will regret not investing $1800 in some bitcoin knockoff in the year 2031.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5819|USA

uziq wrote:

these prices are here to stay, imo.

hugely inflated hardware costs + current-gen games basically being published with a model of 'you pay for the alpha version and we'll maybe finish the game at some point in the future. oh by the way: cash shop and microtransactions' signals a death knell for PC gaming.
Some of that is in consoles too. Cash shop, micro, f2p/p2skip, but in addition to annual fee for online play. Day 1 patches, pay to beta test. Multiplatform games that come early access on PC can be available in a console's online store. 7 Days to Die was on console ages ago before development for that was more or less shuttered with focus moved purely to the PC version (which btw is still in alpha).

The atmosphere eerily rings a bit of the 80s video game crash: market saturation, grumbling, and to be frank a lot of the highly-anticipated stuff is just disappointing. Hopefully Nintendo has another NES up their sleeve in the future.

Games should be cheap entertainment. Spend $600 and enjoy a few years of the occasional evening. $1800 is something I would have spent on a studio card, not a gaming card. Sadly, prices were crap and getting crappier before the pandemic. Companies are going to have to stop advertising at MSRP because it's just causing endless disappointment.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
Finished installing the new PSU and GPU. Computer booted fine. Drivers installed easily. I don't smell anything burning. Still the unhappiest upgrade of my life.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2767
Other stuff...

The 2060 used to idle at desktop at 10%, the 3080 is sitting at 1%. The 4K videos I have are running smooth so far though they are still pushing using 50% of the GPU.

https://i.imgur.com/yA0mrMp.jpg <- NSFW

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