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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

I'm not convinced that Arab countries ever cared that much about Palestine. I'm probably not going to use them as a moral guideline, though.

Plenty of talk on this website about the Bad Stuff Israel has done. The two approaches are 1: villainizing Jews over it (usually dilbert), and 2: villainizing Israel, or more specifically, the Israeli government over it (more reasonable, I think).

Trolling with Nazi things is very middle school, "spray swastikas on the brick wall" kind of stuff. Kids are dumb sometimes, some people never grow out of it, or they actually embrace it unironically. Back to the Trump stuff, it's very unfortunate that he was a bolster to these groups.
dune is sci-fi
Larssen
Member
+69|888
Oh but that's not true. FYI I'm European, and nobody raised any concerns when yugoslav refugees flooded other European countries in the 90s or when Ukrainian ones did in 2014. No, in that case there apparently was a clear cultural fit, despite the fact that Bosnians are muslims for example. As for making it about race; it was Trump who insisted on projecting every possible negative stereotype on mexicans, not me.

Ausch, whatever your name is, there is no single wall in history that hasn't been gotten over, under, or through. If you need any famous examples, look no further than the great wall of china or the maginot line. Both easily circumvented, yet cost enormous amounts of capital and effort to build.

A smuggler can easily dig a tunnel to smuggle either drugs or people under the border, and they do, all the time. They use boats, they use trucks at the legal crossings, or simply cut through parts that are fenced. The wall doesn't work. It's a symbol, nothing more. The only way you could make this sort of system work is if you literally made a DMZ a la north/south korea. But a. that is extremely expensive, b. nobody in their right mind wants that. Do note that I already stated it could be effective in densely populated areas, but not really elsewhere.

Again, the image and rhetoric of the wall is a much more potent symbol than a practical tool. It's about the people behind it, and their wish to insulate themselves.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-07-15 13:35:46)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

re: preparing for coup stuff:

"I never threatened, or spoke about, to anyone, a coup of our Government. So ridiculous! Sorry to inform you, but an Election is my form of 'coup,' and if I was going to do a coup, one of the last people I would want to do it with is General Mark Milley," Trump wrote in a statement released by his private office Thursday.

Trump also said Milley is "certainly not the type of person I would be talking 'coup' with. I’m not into coups!"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/reichstag-mo … 05759.html
lol

Is there another person then? Who would he talk 'coup' with instead?
dune is sci-fi
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+763|5685|United States of America

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Everyone calls each other names now including the mods. You won't get banned for pointing out that the mods are in fact the most cucked men of all time. Binders full of cuckoldry.

Tell us how you really feel.
Whatever happened to the cucking stories of young Mac? Do we need to wait for the book? Uzi can probably facilitate.
uziq
Member
+400|2452
https://theintercept.com/2021/07/15/ame … s-podcast/

the intercept just released an 8-part documentary about an american ISIS fighter in the last days of the caliphate. truly mind bending stuff. amazingly researched.

crazy thing is, the event that precipitated this middle-class white guy’s descent into radicalisation was … getting busted for weed and having his life ruined.

it’s like two american own goals in one. domestic and foreign policy failure. wowsers!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

Re: some of the trump stuff,

https://i.imgur.com/1TaJ4R6.png
https://twitter.com/Strandjunker/status … 14187?s=20

I know a lot of twitter junk is a bunch of gotcha quips within character limits, but I mean …

Regardless of Trump's actual intentions, this makes a very good, often-repeated point. Even some of my conservative friends were tired of the BG stuff and hearing about Hillary's emails, but on and on it went. Then later Trump bumbles through Covid-19 2020 and presides over the Jan 6 attack, and we're supposed to move on. Look at the wall of dubious efficacy!

Books, articles quoting Trump White House staffers, "very questionable sources! Let me confirm that stuff with my Q circle before I give it the time of day."
dune is sci-fi
uziq
Member
+400|2452
the idea that books are published, willy nilly, without fact-checking or legal supervision is pretty funny. let me tell you, as an editor: if multiple books from multiple publishing houses from multiple authors all corroborate the same claims, it’s not a ‘MSM conspiracy’.

publishing houses, especially any that sell into the U.K. market, can be sued for libel in our courts here. very very costly mistake.

not to mention the very same publishing houses have taken a lot of flak and bad publicity by also agreeing to publish stuff from the right/alt-right over the last 4 years. i know some projects have been ‘cancelled’ following various furores or public gaffes (like Milo’s) but let’s not pretend they’re partisan and part of an effort to ‘smear trump’. the self-serving book deal train goes both ways.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

"All the negative-review confessionals about working for/with Trump on stuff must just be from people who are jealous or faking events. Every. Last. One of them! The publishing houses are all owned by George Soros or whatever anyway. Trust them even less than MSNBC! Censoring our voices!"

uziq wrote:

https://theintercept.com/2021/07/15/american-isis-podcast/

the intercept just released an 8-part documentary about an american ISIS fighter in the last days of the caliphate. truly mind bending stuff. amazingly researched.

crazy thing is, the event that precipitated this middle-class white guy’s descent into radicalisation was … getting busted for weed and having his life ruined.

it’s like two american own goals in one. domestic and foreign policy failure. wowsers!
Nuts. I'll definitely earmark that for a later listening.
dune is sci-fi
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+478|2720

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

But the mods were different back then, now they already call me names ..so i guess i won't last long

I'm only back for one day and you all call me nazi and freak out about a gaming tag.. you guys are way too sensitive
I feel hurt by your use of "they." I think I've been fairly straightforward, answering your Trump question honestly. Did I call you any names? I think your beef is with KJ.

I think people would care less about all of your Nazi stuff if you just up fronted about all of that and the Jews thing, without attempting to play it off as chainsaws or hockey or whatever? People can change. There's stories on MSM about a black guy who went around reforming KKK members.

SJW/Macbeth used to target the neighborhood dogs. He's now an animal lover with a nice MTG collection, teaches needy children, and works at a soup kitchen.
Yes i know, i was not talking about you sorry about that.

The chainsaw and Lindros thing were just trolling.. i did not expect anybody to believe that.  at that point it was just funny seeing all my haters getting angrier and angrier every time i came up with an explication for the name Ausch88

I won't post about Israel anymore.. not because i don't want to stir up trouble but mostly because i don't care anymore. Back in the days we were in the middle of the Lebanon war and i was pretty passionate about the subject. Now most arab countries are normalizing relations with Israel so i guess they don't give a crap about the pals so why should I ?
Thank you for being upfront with us. Welcome back. I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts on various topics. +1
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|5198

Larssen wrote:

Oh but that's not true. FYI I'm European, and nobody raised any concerns when yugoslav refugees flooded other European countries in the 90s or when Ukrainian ones did in 2014. No, in that case there apparently was a clear cultural fit, despite the fact that Bosnians are muslims for example. As for making it about race; it was Trump who insisted on projecting every possible negative stereotype on mexicans, not me.
Those were war refugees..  here we have economic migrants playing the refugee card to get in the US..  pretty big difference. I have nothing against immigration but there are ways to do it legally.. Most are probably very nice people but there is some very dangerous criminals also..


Larssen wrote:

Ausch, whatever your name is, there is no single wall in history that hasn't been gotten over, under, or through. If you need any famous examples, look no further than the great wall of china or the maginot line. Both easily circumvented, yet cost enormous amounts of capital and effort to build.
Yea a wall against an invading army will not last long.. i agree.. but here we are talking about civilian population walking on foot.

Larssen wrote:

A smuggler can easily dig a tunnel to smuggle either drugs or people under the border, and they do, all the time. They use boats, they use trucks at the legal crossings, or simply cut through parts that are fenced. The wall doesn't work. It's a symbol, nothing more. The only way you could make this sort of system work is if you literally made a DMZ a la north/south korea. But a. that is extremely expensive, b. nobody in their right mind wants that. Do note that I already stated it could be effective in densely populated areas, but not really elsewhere.

Again, the image and rhetoric of the wall is a much more potent symbol than a practical tool. It's about the people behind it, and their wish to insulate themselves.
The wall is only part of the solution..there are sensors that detect vibration in the soil etc.. It is a deterrent for some people.. also it help relocate ressources to the most problematic areas of the border and to the points of entry. That coupled with a good policy of having the "refugees" waiting in Mexico while their case was examined helped reduce the flow of illegals a lot during Trump mandate. Now that Biden reinstated "catch and release", they are coming back in drove.

Again, all border patrol agents, the one that are actually at the border dealing with the problem are very happy with the wall.. and i think that they know a lot more than you and me about border security and what is needed to do their job.

It is not about race.. it is just a way for his critics to make political points.. Like when he banned travel from CHina in the beginning of the pandemic.. They were all screaming racism and xenophobia.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

Re: China,

Except the former president also made a point to float both of those elements (racism, xenophobia) into the conversation as well.

If he was that eager to tackle the coronavirus, why did he then proceed to sabotage efforts to fight it? A (very lenient) argument could be made that early on in his presidency, he meant well enough even while making his own Swamp (still a "lovable goofball" who makes sexual remarks about his own kid). But with the events over the past year it's hard to credit him with having had the country's best interests at heart.
dune is sci-fi
Larssen
Member
+69|888
It's like you're trying to talk yourself into supporting something of which you know it's deeply immoral and frankly despicable. I shouldn't need to link the youtube videos; you know full well that Trump, at various occasions, played racist stereotyping because it appealed to his base and crowds. Tell them mexicans were rapists, and he'd be greeted with cheers. Tell them he was going to build a wall, louder cheers. Tell them he would 'make mexicans pay for it', the crowd goes wild. Creating an image of an unwelcome enemy that was assaulting the USA was central to his message, racism & stereotyping was part and parcel of that creation.

Whatever any border patrol agent who self identifies as a gatekeeper of sorts may anecdotally tell you, people have actually researched this stuff. Not just the border wall in the USA, but lots of walls. I remember seeing several publications that outlined the fact that the border wall is and was largely ineffective.

Oh he didn't just ban flights from china, he banned them from the European Union as well. You say he did it to contain covid, it's a pretty foregone conclusion that didn't help one bit. But the telling part is that he went on and did everything in his power to frustrate and sabotage the efforts of his own CDC in their fight against covid when it entered the USA. Covid would just disappear like a miracle. He refused to wear a mask. Equated the disease to a mild case of the flu. Why would you even shut down flights if all that were his real views? He was just looking for an excuse to be a petty PoS and to lash out.

Let's also remember that before covid the US was considered the #1 country in the world best prepared to handle a pandemic event, with the most extensive crisis planning. It ended up being the worst hit country next to Brazil. That's about the extent of Trump's competence in action. And you follow this man like a fool.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-07-16 10:07:17)

uziq
Member
+400|2452
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-f … iking-iran

imagine reading an account like this and then thinking ‘it’s fake news, the general has an agenda’.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

I feel 110% done with humoring that line of thought. That knowing look, corners of mouth turning up, eyes narrowing triumphantly. You can just about hear the gears behind their skulls cranking out the dopamine of knowing something the "experts" or MSM or "liberal" authors don't. In that case, "anyone in Trump's administration remotely critical of him are a part of the deep state stuff." Ironically even if they were formerly one of Trump's 'best people.'

Just a bunch of disgraced liberal generals, I guess! Small fries, political non-entities, jealous of Trump's successes (usually big praises to generals for "making it" in military politics otherwise).

If I had to put it into a sloppy Dragon Ball analogy, Trump is like a whiny, overweight version of Freeza given every leeway and chance to cease, before cutting himself in half with his own words.

Looking forward to Resurrection T in August.

e: will concede that scoop-first, verify-later reporting has done its damage to public perception of journalism, but it's not as if your racist relative's home-made memes are any better of a source

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-07-16 19:04:19)

dune is sci-fi
uziq
Member
+400|2452
trump literally says that one of his senior generals is trying to 'curry favour with the Far Left' ... and his followers lap it up.

those known marxists at the pentagon! a fifth column! or was it a second column ... or an armored battalion ... i forget. drain the swamp!!!
uziq
Member
+400|2452
good stuff. haven't seen it before.

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+478|2720
I don't like Miley. He curses too much.
uziq
Member
+400|2452
heaven forbid that men in charge of the most lethal killing force on the planet should use vulgar language!

milley is a practicing catholic, which puts him several leagues of faith above your soi-disant online posturing.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+478|2720
I didn't know he is a Catholic. He should lead a coup against Trump if he wins.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

The comments on that video are scathing, if maybe not the most constructive. I imagine a number of them are by boomers who were personally affected by the war.

Probably not from the ones who lost siblings but still weirdly worship/revere the officials responsible.
dune is sci-fi
uziq
Member
+400|2452
i mean, if boomers have dead relatives who were killed in the vietnam war, they can be justifiably aggrieved by the architect of the war on a book tour.

he is pretty lucid and honest, though. it's nice to see a frank and candid insight into the workings of power.

mcnamara seemed genuinely bothered and affected by the events of the century. which is more than can be said for kissinger. or rumsfeld.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+478|2720
I hope Kissinger makes it to 100. A literal last of a generation. Liddy just died too.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,907|5772|USA

uziq wrote:

i mean, if boomers have dead relatives who were killed in the vietnam war, they can be justifiably aggrieved by the architect of the war on a book tour.
Well, yes. That's sort of why I pointed out.

Although some also-affected boomers are still in awe of these guys like they're in the grips of some sort of weird Stockholm syndrome, and enjoy cheerfully relaying stories and quips from interviews and exchanges between officials to the tune of "what a guy!"

he is pretty lucid and honest, though. it's nice to see a frank and candid insight into the workings of power.

mcnamara seemed genuinely bothered and affected by the events of the century. which is more than can be said for kissinger. or rumsfeld.
It's very interesting to listen to, and I don't think some of the points as he presents them in stuff are necessarily wrong (the country is failing its people, and big execs/stockholders are failing their responsibility to society, bravo). But I think some of his reflections sort of come off as crocodile tears. Where was that when he was scraping up on occasion actually retarded people to go die for a social experiment.

From nearly the beginning of Project 100,000, McNamara’s critics accused him of disguising its true objective: using the poor instead of the middle class for combat in Vietnam. The truth was more complex. McNamara had proposed Project 100,000 two years earlier, seeing it as a way to contribute to the Johnson administration’s War on Poverty. In fact, the idea had been kicking around Washington before McNamara arrived on the scene.

Its leading advocate was Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a sociologist who in 1976 would be elected to the U.S. Senate from New York. The best way to alleviate poverty in America, Moynihan’s argument went, would be to draft the hundreds of thousands of young men and women being rejected annually as unfit for military service. Take these young men—mostly inner-city blacks and poor, rural whites—and put them into uniform. Instill discipline. Train them to bathe daily, salute, and take orders. Teach them a marketable skill. After a couple of years, lazy, unmotivated slackers would be transformed into hard-working, law-abiding citizens. Moreover, the new generation of military recruits could then teach their children to be solid middle-class citizens, thus breaking the generation-to-generation continuity of poverty.

Johnson and McNamara embraced Moynihan’s concept in 1964, two years before Project 100,000 was launched. Secret White House recordings captured a conversation in which Johnson said that he wished the military could be persuaded to take the “second-class fellow,” adding: “We’ll…teach him to get up at daylight and work till dark and shave and bathe.…And when we turn him out, we’ll have him prepared at least to drive a truck or bakery wagon or stand at a gate [as a guard].”

McNamara told LBJ that uniformed officers in the Defense Department were opposed to drafting such men because “they don’t want to be in the business of dealing with ‘morons.’ They call these ‘moron camps’ now, inside the [Pentagon]. The army doesn’t want to be thought of as a rehabilitation agency.”

https://www.historynet.com/mcnamaras-boys.htm

“The young men of Project 100,000 couldn’t read,” Joseph Galloway, a war correspondent who was awarded a Bronze Star with Valor in Vietnam for carrying wounded men to safety in the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley, later recalled. “They had to be taught to tie their boots. They often failed [basic training] and were recycled over and over until they finally reached some low standard and were declared trained and ready. They could not be taught any more demanding job than trigger-pulling, [so most of them] went straight into combat, where the learning curve is steep and deadly.”
I guess sonypic forwarded some of the money from Fog of War to charity for vets? MacNamara's adjacent wikipedia page (I know, I know) doesn't have one mention of "charity" or "donate/tion." Did he for his '95 book? His stuff has seen some criticism as being patchwork for his reputation as much as a confessional soapbox, and making a few omissions (although there's a lot to talk about, so).


e:
Probably not my most articulate post, but anyway,

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/14/movi … sorry.html

Paraphrasing, "we were wrong, sorry that I made errors" isn't really much of an apology, but I guess better that than a forced one. I think some of the nuttier viewers took away what might not have been the whole, coalesced message. Instead, "yeah, sometimes you gotta get tough on them!"

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-07-17 03:22:17)

dune is sci-fi
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+478|2720
This is why we lost the war in Iraq.
https://i.redd.it/gx8nnj6vrlc71.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,744|5106|eXtreme to the maX
The Marines spent all their time in cuddle-puddles?
#FreeBritney

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