uziq
Member
+492|3422
what is the german race? the english race? this is asinine.

european colonies were white supremacist and racist towards their colonized subjects.

to say there was no officially racist policy in 1960, when the decolonizing european states were accepting 'equal citizens' off boats from their former SLAVE PLANTATIONS, is fucking hilarious. how can you even be so decidedly ignorant is beyond me. the entire system, first of slave plantations, then of colonies, then finally of semi-independent commonwealth states and so on, was one of vertical rule from an imperial centre with a master/slave or racialist ideology.

pretending that, from the point of imperial collapse, the former subjects were welcomed as 'equal citizens with visas', as if the whole thing had been swept under the rug and tidied up, repackaged into a new post-colonial liberal just society, is hilarious. this might apply in the narrow example of a war-shamed germany with its gasterbeiter, but it sure as fuck was not the experience of a black person in britain or an arab in france, let me tell you. many countries, indeed, lived on in deep denial that their empire – and its racial hierarchies – was even coming to an end. the political establishments were in constant ructions and disagreements over the 'immigrant question', and many racist policies and practices continued from the previous era. european states were debating official relations with apartheid south africa well into the 1970s ffs.

the societies were officially as well as unofficially racist. do you think all those racist attitudes which cut through with the tory electorate in 1964 were just summoned out of thin air? could it be that centuries of imperialist ideology which painted people from faraway places as 'brutes', 'others', 'subhuman', 'not fit to rule themselves', etc, might have contributed to it? or did bed-and-breakfast owners in the west midlands, actually, just have highly developed race theories of their own?

a post-colonial black citizen of europe has just as much right to ask for redress, equality, official apology, and so on, as the descendant of a slave. and still, in 2021, they are not finding it. there are still scandals about the treatment of non-white 'citizens' to this day. imagine sitting there and fucking claiming that european states are not culpable like america because 'they came as equal citizens with official visas', when the UK home office was ARBITRARILY DEPORTING AND DETAINING black britons in 2018!

Last edited by uziq (2021-06-23 08:39:20)

Larssen
Member
+99|1858
How often can we make the same arguments in more elaborate wording? My eyes are glazing over at this point.

European societies were not designed with segregation and slave labour in mind. The colonies were. If you look to social realities in south africa and the southern united states, the legacy of those systems persevered into modern times, front and center.

Someone who came here in the 60s left the colonial construct and entered a society that functioned in a different way and by a different set of rules. Especially post war Europe that literally promoted their immigration. This does not mean or imply the non existence of racism. This does not mean they crossed into some sort of vortex wholly disconnected from the colonial history. But it does fundamentally change the social and physical realities. There's no black person in germany or france who has relatives that worked plantations in the elzas. There is no immediate local history of state persecution/slaughter of black people. Of the post colonial migrants, there is also less of a sense of forgotten history; black people in the USA completely lost their own identities which is why black american became an identity unto itself. A sierra leonian, malian or nigerian who emigrated to Europe of his or her own choice does not share that collective trauma. Choice is also a non-insignificant part of the equation; they weren't dragged into Europe with chains attached to their feet and hands. They generally weren't huddled into blacks-only internment camps, totally denied education or sent to blacks only schools & hospitals & services and cut off from the rest of the society.

Does this eliminate colonial history? Does this mean there was no racism? Does this mean all pubs were open and welcoming to immigrants? Does this mean there were no MPs who campaigned against black immigration? No. But you seem both totally unwilling and unable to recognise that there's fundamental differences in these contexts & that it affects and informs debates on racism differently. You're instead out here writing in a way as if the nigerian immigrant that came to Britain in the 60s is the exact same as a Zulu living in 60s apartheid SA. With the same immediate grievances and history. The same justified anger. And so the history of all black people everywhere gets reduced to the same traumatic blur of slave ships and cotton picking and the history of white people devolves into a uniform one of slave owners cutting limbs if the black population failed to meet the quota.

It doesn't work that way. You're totally insensitive to local realities.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

OK, so I've only been loosely paying attention to this conversation, but I don't think asking police to stop murdering you is a reduction to 1800s plantation economics. "Let's talk about black ghettos." "Are you calling me a plantation owner?" Er?
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
Of course that's reasonable ffs. But that's not all this is about is it. It's about the experience of systemic racism and historical traumas. What we were discussing is not only or solely about george floyd, but the wider movement - protests against colonial legacies, the black/white identity rift and my initial statement that I didn't feel BLM in the US should be copy pasted into EU contexts.

But fuck it. I already know whatever I'll write all of you will lose the plot, while dear uziq here will shed endless giant tears over the injustices of this world whilst accusing me of apologia because I'm not bending backwards in full unequivocal support of each new association decrying minority grievance. (Whilst of course opposing identity politics, but I wonder how that will work out)
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690

Larssen wrote:

Of course that's reasonable ffs. But that's not all this is about is it. It's about the experience of systemic racism and historical traumas. What we were discussing is not only or solely about george floyd, but the wider movement - protests against colonial legacies, the black/white identity rift and my initial statement that I didn't feel BLM in the US should be copy pasted into EU contexts.

But fuck it. I already know whatever I'll write all of you will lose the plot, while dear uziq here will shed endless giant tears over the injustices of this world whilst accusing me of apologia because I'm not bending backwards in full unequivocal support of each new association decrying minority grievance. (Whilst of course opposing identity politics, but I wonder how that will work out)
I kind of understand where you are coming from. I don't understand why the U.S. has all of these Holocaust museums and laws. Shit (mostly) had nothing to do with us.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3422

Larssen wrote:

But fuck it. I already know whatever I'll write all of you will lose the plot, while dear uziq here will shed endless giant tears over the injustices of this world whilst accusing me of apologia because I'm not bending backwards in full unequivocal support of each new association decrying minority grievance. (Whilst of course opposing identity politics, but I wonder how that will work out)
european countries have not reckoned with their colonial legacies.

you thinking that ‘blacks were not systematically detained or slaughtered in europe’, when they were genocided by germany and put in concentration camps in kenya in 1907, might seem slightly academic to a descendant of those peoples, don’t you think? 'there was no segregation policy in europe' says the colonial scholar, about a system in which the non-whites were kept working on labour plantations 1000s of kilometres away from the imperial centres, which were full of fears and propaganda about race-mixing and miscegenation. and incredibly you say, 'of post-colonial migrants, there is no sense of a forgotten history' ... ok?!? so how are you drawing a fine fucking line between life in the colonies and a new life in europe?

i don’t see how answering calls for equal access and opportunity and for redress is falling into the trap of endless ‘identity politics’. the simple fact is that there’s a huge economic void in the UK’s history. when we abolished slavery, we paid compensation to the slave owners and made all of them into centuries-long millionaire dynasties. meanwhile the ‘free’ in our colonies, much like the freeholders in the defeated confederacy, continued very much in their economic role as wage slaves. the abolition of slavery in the UK, like the processes of post- and neo-colonialism, was a gigantic transfer of public wealth into the ruling class. you pretend it was the ushering in of a new era of 'equal citizens with work visas' and not, er, wholesale plunder and the moving in of multinationals to fresh and corruptible territories. did you even study the barebones of neo-colonial theory?

you and dilbert seem to think that a person getting off a boat in 1950 was effectively a ‘black middle-class’, as if several hundred years of an organised racist system hadn’t disadvantaged them at all. it’s really bizarre. ‘stop playing identity politics!’ ‘get over it!’ ‘it’s different!’

of course every nation has a separate history and context. well done. see above where i awarded you the nobel prize for this insight (you still haven’t RSVP’d). but BLM protesters in brussels or london aren’t protesting solely based off american affairs, are they? you are being disingenuous in the extreme. there are long histories of protest, including riots and hugely controversial slayings, right here.

BLM protests in britain frequently featured placards with the names of a dozen or so people killed in the U.K. in the same circumstances as george floyd. you making out that BLM’s EU protests are ignorant of ‘local history’ is funny. the only one sticking his head in the sand to local, particular and material realities is you. you seem to prefer it doesn’t exist. ‘we’ll all get along much better as soon as we can forget race’, says the white guy who thinks it’s negligible that germany genocided africans only a century ago. they all have nice jobs as train conductors and shoe smiths now! cant we forget about it!

Last edited by uziq (2021-06-23 20:55:42)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
The UK police kill white people about as frequently, no racism involved.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Police shouldn't be killing anyone except as a last resort. Certainly sitting around the station cackling at replays of their own cruelties (and firing off racial slurs where applicable) is not a Good Thing. Unsustainable. People are scrutinized for holding police in such contempt these days, but honestly is it any wonder that they do.

Imagine living in your peaceful neighborhood and suddenly three technicals loaded up with yahoo cops in hodgepodge paramilitary crap and punisher masks offload to go sling lead up and down the street because someone they suspected of growing marijuana or whatever slowly edged his car three feet from an officer's leg before taking off.

Joint-coperation goes out of its way to murder some antifa guy not too long from where I live, but will blithely coordinate with armed MAGA thugs.

Daniel Shaver fails the world's most deadly game of Twister and is executed in the hotel of a hallway for it. Later, Hollis signs onto BF2S to admit it was a sloppy operation, but still play devil's advocate for the decision making. Further consultation for a fee.

Thin-blue-liners lament "cops quitting and recruitment troubles," but don't want to talk much about their work culture/environment and questionable training practices. What, do you want police who think nothing about pepper spraying little kids? How is that "better than nothing."

BuT tHe AnArcHiSt AuTonOmOuS ZoNeS ArE DesTrOyiNg OuR CiTieS!

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-06-24 05:00:54)

uziq
Member
+492|3422

Dilbert_X wrote:

The UK police kill white people about as frequently, no racism involved.
it's ... almost ... as if ... there is a thing ... called ... STATISTICS

Black people account for 3% of the population, but 8% of deaths in custody. As a former chief prosecutor, I know this is only the end point of a system that disproportionately suspects, arrests, convicts and imprisons BAME people
A David Cameron-commissioned report by David Lammy found in 2017 that the colour of your skin has a measurable impact on how you are treated at every stage in the justice system.
think about ... that ... the tory govt ... officially admitting ... RACISM

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 … -treatment

did i mention that BLM want to reform and defund the police in toto for the sake of community re-investment? have i said that less than 10 times at this point? their reforms would benefit white people too. fuck ME are you dense.

This was reinforced by research commissioned by the Sentencing Council published in January, which showed that in drugs cases, if you are from a minority the odds are 40%-50% higher that your ethnicity will contribute to sentencing decisions.

Lammy’s report proved in effect that if you placed a white man and a BAME man in the same predicament with the same previous history, with the same or similar evidence, the BAME man was more likely to be stopped, arrested, charged, denied bail, convicted and sentenced to prison. Then, while in prison, he was less likely to be supported to rehabilitate, more likely to reoffend and more likely to die in custody – and his family were less likely to get justice following that death.

Lammy recommended urgent reform. However, three years later, there is not one BAME chief constable – in fact there has only ever been one. Until very recently, there were no BAME commissioners dealing with miscarriages of justice and not one member of the 240-strong parole board was BAME. There has never been a BAME director of public prosecutions and the number of BAME judges and magistrates, while it is increasing from a very low base, is still well below the proportion that will reflect the communities they serve. When I was chief crown prosecutor and then chief executive of the country’s police and crime commissioners, I would often sit in meetings of criminal justice leaders and be the only non-white person in the room apart from the person taking the minutes.

I was born in Britain, to a family that has worked with the British army for half a century, one of whom was murdered by the IRA for doing so. I have spent much of my professional career tackling crimes and misbehaviours in all communities regardless of race or religion, yet I too have been subject to racism in the course of my work.
bUt wHitE pEoPle haV FeeLinGs TOoO!

Last edited by uziq (2021-06-24 20:06:44)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Lammy recommended urgent reform. However, three years later, there is not one BAME chief constable
Yes, you can just conjure black chief constables out of thin air.

If blacks represent 3% of the population then no black chief constables is statistically a perfectly acceptable outcome, given the expectation there might be 1.5 with a spread either side.

There has never been a BAME director of public prosecutions
Well seeing as there's only one DPP at a time and they tend to stay in the role lets say five years then maybe every 150 years you might expect to see a black DPP

When people who don't understand statistics try to use statistics the outcomes are usually poor.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3422
when people intentionally miss the point you really have to wonder what their personal motives are.

the report claims that people of colour have measurably worse outcomes at every stage of the justice system, from street-level stops and search to sentence to death in custody.

dilbert: snarf! of course there’s never been a black DPP! racism doesn’t exist!
uziq
Member
+492|3422
but remember the police are really corrupt and the justice system needs serious change when it affects dilbert’s family. a report confirming dilbert’s own experiences was ‘momentous’, a yuuuuuuge finding guys.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
The Police are about as racist as everyone else, who could have imagined.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Is that so? In a lot of jobs, being outwardly racist towards clients and coworkers could get you chewed out by HR, demoted, or fired.
uziq
Member
+492|3422

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Police are about as racist as everyone else, who could have imagined.
the police are funded by those minorities' tax payments.

the police are specifically there to ensure peace, order, justice, etc.

how are you so fucking obtuse?

'so what if the police are racist, the local greengrocer is too! why aren't BLM going after the grocers?'

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

the police are specifically there to ensure peace, order, justice, etc.
And they come down slightly harder on some groups than others.

Maybe try committing a crime in an african country and see if you get treated the same as the indigenous community.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Is that so? In a lot of jobs, being outwardly racist towards clients and coworkers could get you chewed out by HR, demoted, or fired.
Mostly it will be marginal racism, letting one person off with a warning, charging someone else for the same thing.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3422

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

the police are specifically there to ensure peace, order, justice, etc.
And they come down slightly harder on some groups than others.

Maybe try committing a crime in an african country and see if you get treated the same as the indigenous community.
maybe try learning how to argue without whataboutery?
Larssen
Member
+99|1858

uziq wrote:

Larssen wrote:

But fuck it. I already know whatever I'll write all of you will lose the plot, while dear uziq here will shed endless giant tears over the injustices of this world whilst accusing me of apologia because I'm not bending backwards in full unequivocal support of each new association decrying minority grievance. (Whilst of course opposing identity politics, but I wonder how that will work out)
european countries have not reckoned with their colonial legacies.

you thinking that ‘blacks were not systematically detained or slaughtered in europe’, when they were genocided by germany and put in concentration camps in kenya in 1907, might seem slightly academic to a descendant of those peoples, don’t you think? 'there was no segregation policy in europe' says the colonial scholar, about a system in which the non-whites were kept working on labour plantations 1000s of kilometres away from the imperial centres, which were full of fears and propaganda about race-mixing and miscegenation. and incredibly you say, 'of post-colonial migrants, there is no sense of a forgotten history' ... ok?!? so how are you drawing a fine fucking line between life in the colonies and a new life in europe?

i don’t see how answering calls for equal access and opportunity and for redress is falling into the trap of endless ‘identity politics’. the simple fact is that there’s a huge economic void in the UK’s history. when we abolished slavery, we paid compensation to the slave owners and made all of them into centuries-long millionaire dynasties. meanwhile the ‘free’ in our colonies, much like the freeholders in the defeated confederacy, continued very much in their economic role as wage slaves. the abolition of slavery in the UK, like the processes of post- and neo-colonialism, was a gigantic transfer of public wealth into the ruling class. you pretend it was the ushering in of a new era of 'equal citizens with work visas' and not, er, wholesale plunder and the moving in of multinationals to fresh and corruptible territories. did you even study the barebones of neo-colonial theory?

you and dilbert seem to think that a person getting off a boat in 1950 was effectively a ‘black middle-class’, as if several hundred years of an organised racist system hadn’t disadvantaged them at all. it’s really bizarre. ‘stop playing identity politics!’ ‘get over it!’ ‘it’s different!’

of course every nation has a separate history and context. well done. see above where i awarded you the nobel prize for this insight (you still haven’t RSVP’d). but BLM protesters in brussels or london aren’t protesting solely based off american affairs, are they? you are being disingenuous in the extreme. there are long histories of protest, including riots and hugely controversial slayings, right here.

BLM protests in britain frequently featured placards with the names of a dozen or so people killed in the U.K. in the same circumstances as george floyd. you making out that BLM’s EU protests are ignorant of ‘local history’ is funny. the only one sticking his head in the sand to local, particular and material realities is you. you seem to prefer it doesn’t exist. ‘we’ll all get along much better as soon as we can forget race’, says the white guy who thinks it’s negligible that germany genocided africans only a century ago. they all have nice jobs as train conductors and shoe smiths now! cant we forget about it!
Re; postcolonial dynamics in former colonial countries. That may be relevant to BLM in the USA as it is a postcolonial country, but not elsewhere. The movement and debates about colonial legacies & slavery is an entirely western dynamic among western populations with a migratory background and the rest of society in western countries. In the US and places like Brazil it's immediate history, though outside those places you'll find very few voices in any former colonial country who would still press others to 'reckon with their colonial past'. To decolonised countries and peoples independence was victory and the most important step to a closing of that chapter. Yes, economic, governmental, multinational pressures still had significant control and influence in many post-colonial states and defined their (immediate) future. But socially, in general, you'll be hard pressed to find Ghanaians, Kenyans, Congolese or anyone else still waiting for or being interested in profuse apologies and redress from western countries. Perhaps here and there among the very few who remain that actually lived the more harsh realities of colonialism or wars of independence, but the victim projection doesn't appeal even to them. A Somali born in the past forty or fifty years isn't much interested in what the British or Italian governments have to say about colonialism in 2021.

The fear and propaganda of race mixing and miscegenation wasn't solely about the colonial populations. 95%+ of Europeans had no interaction with colonial subjects whatsoever. Ideas of ethnic/racial purity were close enough that many families would've considered it problematic for a spaniard to marry an italian, or for a frenchman to fall in love with a german. Since the rise of nationalism and even before, symbolisms and regional cultural differentiation + exclusion was common practice among all European populations, save perhaps for the powerful aristocratic families, though they had their own particular cross-border culture & society. Again, this is not to say 'there was no racism', but that the social dynamic of ethnic/cultural exclusion was a central part of identity formation (and often still is by the way). Racism and racial exclusion is just a cherry on top, and an even easier belief to hold if the subject of your racist ideas is 1000s of kms away. An interesting aside is that in most colonising empires which had strong aristocratic governance, colonial subjects part of local elites were treated very well & given more land & subjects than they had before the colonisers came, which is generally how colonies were controlled. They were to an extent part of the aristocrat in-group.

Now as for dynamics in Europe. Yeah, the 50s and 60s were racist and exclusionary in many ways and there's plenty examples. But as I've stated before,  Europe already went through/was going through the moral evolution that deemed colonialism and slavery wrong. A more backwards Europe would've never even considered the invitation of gastarbeiter, or offering decolonised subjects the choice to travel to the former imperial heartland and start a new life there. The government was not of entirely ill intent. That segregation did happen in places was I believe primarily both an economic consequence and due to social stigmatisation. Economic because migration was specifically promoted for low-skill work that needed no education. And even if the person who entered was educated, it's unlikely his/her credentials would be accepted here (and often that's justified, but there's a consequence). As a result almost all migrant populations are low-income households and concentrated in the same low cost urban areas. Then there was social stigmatisation; in many cases by both native populations and the migrants themselves. This is esp. visible in Belgium where in urban areas there's an extreme contrast between white neighbourhoods and immigrant neighbourhoods. Where migrants settled in, white populations left. But mixing proved problematic on both ends as well - it's a notorious stereotype that the daughters of migrant families will provoke the ire and wrath of their parents if they date or marry with natives, the other way around white families would disapprove of foreign boyfriends/girlfriends. The controlling attitude towards daughters is still very prevalent, by the way.

So you end up with a migrant population where the parents worked low income jobs, were themselves uneducated and often from conservative rural backgrounds, who settled in low-cost housing with other migrants. Interaction with natives was superficial, both due to economic circumstance and purposefully because of mutual social segregation. It's an understatement to say the children of these people will be underprivileged. They grow up in poorer neighbourhoods that might be entirely made up of migrant populations & are not stimulated to go through the western education system. This causes a host of issues, and the poverty also breeds crime. To make matters worse: poor, criminal areas get bad reputations & more policing. And in this case it's an area made up of mostly migrants.

It would've taken conscious policy efforts to avoid all this from happening in the first place. And now there's several movements being born that focus almost exclusively on individual or systematic racism as a primary cause. The complexity along multiple angles evaporates, and the debate is to most people reduced entirely to identity and our superficial judgments of one another. We talk only about how skin colour is a determinant for social class. How a different last name makes getting a job harder. That police only seem to be active in migrant neighbourhoods and excessively arrest migrants. We'll tear down statues and symbols lining society that may be reminiscent of colonial times. NGOs that 'counter racism' are made every second. On the other hand the far right will tell you the black/middle eastern/north african populations figure more strongly in crime statistics. That 'their neighbourhoods' are criminal. That none of them seem to be going to university. That they can't speak the language well. That they're tearing down culturally important symbols and attacking 'our' society.

The worst part is that it is charged more by media and events coming from the USA, where there are far deeper lines of racial conflict still. That's where cities were literally designed to isolate black populations for example, and where there's a local history of slavery, which you still don't recognise as a differential. It's like every other day there's a new book or netflix series aimed at the woke among us, or a video of the usual extremely excessive police violence of invariably a white person against some poor black guy. It's transposed into the debate here, the terms of division are imported, the analytical lenses developed in the US contexts are adopted too.

What you end up with is a shit-show and a cycle of social conflict that I really don't see as solveable. Not in the least because of underlying systemic causes & pressures, but also because the public debate at large misidentifies the issues in preference of shit-slinging over superficial identifiers. Tell me again though how this will all lead to redress and equal opportunity. The 0.1% of supporters that may have a holistic approach and which you cling to are not at all the ones really shaping this whole debate/conflict.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Meanwhile while uziq never stops ranting about a single white supremacist killing, yet another black supremacist killing barely makes the news.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57618354
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
Uhm pretty much every german newspaper has some 2-3 articles on the frontpage about this.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6707|Oxferd Ohire
If uziq doesn't post about it it's not news
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Uzique can be overbearing, but come on. This knife attack is everywhere. Brief search turns up results for MSNBC, CNN, ABC, BBC, Fox, Yahoo, Reuters, AP, Sky, Al Jazeera, Stripes, and even stuff like Seattle PI.

From your own link, dilbs:

Police said he had been violent and mentally unstable and had recently received psychiatric treatment

But a police spokesman said that, while the attacker had a criminal record, none of his previous offences were related to terrorism.
I don't know how that automatically extends to some vast "black supremacy" movement or whatever.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
Could we talk about that building that fell? How hard is it to make a building that doesn't fall?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Sure.
Surfside Commissioner Nelly Velasquez told ABC News that the building was up for its 40-year recertification.

The Champlain Towers South Condo Association was preparing to start a new construction project to make updates and the condominium had been through extensive inspections, according to Kenneth Direktor, a lawyer for the association. Direktor said that he hadn't been warned of any structural issues with the building or about the land it was built on. He said there was water damage to the complex, but that is common for oceanfront properties and wouldn't have caused the collapse.

"Nothing like this has ever been seen, at least not in the 40 years I've been doing this," Direktor told ABC News.
Pretty much waiting on investigation at this point to learn why it happened.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis toured the site, telling reporters it was "traumatic to see."

"It's a tragic day," DeSantis said during a press conference in Surfside on Thursday afternoon. "We still have hope to be able to identify additional survivors."

The governor declared a state of emergency in Miami-Dade County that evening "to provide assistance for the families impacted by the Surfside tragedy," according to the order.

The 12-story condo tower in a Google street view image before it collapsed, left, and after, June 2...Read More
U.S. President Joe Biden told reporters that he spoke with the Miami-Dade County mayor as well as U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who represents the Florida district.

MORE: Biden approves Florida emergency declaration after Miami building collapse leaves 3 dead, 99 missing
Biden said he was waiting on the governor to ask for an emergency declaration, but he is "ready to move from the federal resources immediately, immediately, if in fact we're asked for it."
Nice that Biden didn't ask DeSantis to be nice to him first.

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