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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5670|USA

Obviously revenge for Toyotomi Hideyoshi's rampage through Korea.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+450|2618

uziq wrote:

i've already lived in paris for an extended period. i've been all over europe for all of my life. i've read widely in european literature; watched the history of european film; had many european friends, a european girlfriend for 5 years. i wanted to experience something new. WHY does this need some huge political subtext for you? jesus christ.

Because they're so similar to a generic British city there'd be little point, instead you chose a historically insular monoculture so you could experience something actually different.
madrid similar to birmingham? paris similar to newcastle? are you out of your fucking mind? even within a broad context of 'european civilization', and even after being on one another's doorsteps for millenia, trading, warring, mixing pacifically or violently, european cultures are very obviously different and distinguishable, idiot. but tell me some more how kebab shops are going to blur all boundaries.

you've 'travelled widely' and yet you can't appreciate the great cities of europe for their own qualities. for what reason? oh because muslims live in them now. i really honestly pity you.

also, seoul? a city rebuilt from scratch in 1960? seoul, with american convenience stores on every single street corner, luxury european fashion boutiques, apple stores and german cars? seoul, famous for its fried chicken, craft beer, and thousands of coffee shops – those ultra-korean inventions? are you sure about your little theory, dilbert? i'm not sure how a city levelled by total war in the last 75 years and rebuilt with massive support from western powers is meant to reflect that vague claim to a 'historically insular monoculture' you keep going on about. you might want to think a little harder about all the alarm you're making about african restaurants and kebabs. i bet you think they invented k-pop and k-dramas in a cultural vacuum too, right? whoosh ...

it's ironic that the right-wing cultural conservative koreans you like to quasi-identify with are also pseudo-scientific and historically illiterate. claims for korean 'homogeneity' and the 'pureness' of the korean race are, of course, entirely factitious. the ethnic purity you keep going on about is an agreed upon fiction: a creation of a government census. like all claims about 'races' and 'peoples', the science quickly vacates the room when you look at the long historical record or, better yet, the genetic record. it's a small peninsula surrounded by gigantic powers that has been invaded, occupied, conquered and reconquered dozens of times in the last 2000-2500 years. there is NO 'pure' korean blood or culture. the reason that the right-wing and establishment here have been so vociferous and defensive about it is because, er, they've been the victims of chinese and japanese designs for many long-suffering centuries. it's an entirely historical process and unique to here.  speaking of which:

historically insular monoculture
korea was isolationist for all of about 150 years. like japan, it was a political choice in response to the threat of forced trade and aggressive religious conversion from missionaries (as well as threats from its near neighbours). the reasons they have stuck out in the western perception, and in western historiography, as 'hermit kingdoms' are because of this opposition to the west. of course korea has long overlapping histories with its own immediate neighbours and is just as much of an organic mix of influences as a result. (japan? that other monocultural, homogeneous society with a history of isolation? with their pure imperial dynasty with, er, korean blood, you mean?) claims for korea's special purity or homogeneity are inventions of a very recent nationalism – the japanese occupied it for decades and tried to erase their names and language ffs. the resulting national mythos is a predictable reaction.

cultures change, adapt and grow. they are pervious to outside and inside influences. cultures are dynamic and organic. you refute all of that. you have a cemetery gravestone conception of culture, propped up by antique and outmoded 'race science'. just because a culture is subject to change or admits outside influences, doesn't mean it 'loses' itself; and culture is not reducible to race (for that even to be possible, race itself would have to be a coherent concept, which it is not). european historians can be frank and open about this process, talk about the mutability and contingency of 'frenchness', 'britishness', etc, and only bitter acrimony between korea and japan and korea and china stops cultural conservatives here from frankly admitting the same.

great replacement theory, fears of races mixing, notions of nation built on 'race': it's all so terribly 19th century dilbert. major cities have had international communities, diasporas, migrant workers, and, yes, FOREIGN CUISINE AND GOODS, for as long as fucking cities have been a thing. your paranoia about cities bringing surrounding peoples and cultures together with their centripetal-commercial force is fucking dumb. you'd be complaining about the 'chaos' and 'cultural genocide' back in ancient mesopotamia.
You and Dilbert should kiss to see what happens because he is literally the only person here who will read all of this.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5670|USA

Don't cross the streams.
uziq
Member
+393|2351
i really think that 95% of dilbert’s animus and motivation here is psychosexual. he either fancies me or wants my life. he acts like a curmudgeon because he doesn’t know how to connect with the deep torrents of homosexual feeling that surge within him.

imagine genuinely not understanding what a cosmopolitan city is. imagine turning travel into a political quagmire. he is quite literally a constipated thinker. he needs to get laid and laugh for the first time this century.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5005|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i've already lived in paris for an extended period. i've been all over europe for all of my life. i've read widely in european literature; watched the history of european film; had many european friends, a european girlfriend for 5 years. i wanted to experience something new. WHY does this need some huge political subtext for you? jesus christ.

Because they're so similar to a generic British city there'd be little point, instead you chose a historically insular monoculture so you could experience something actually different.
madrid similar to birmingham? paris similar to newcastle? are you out of your fucking mind? even within a broad context of 'european civilization', and even after being on one another's doorsteps for millenia, trading, warring, mixing pacifically or violently, european cultures are very obviously different and distinguishable, idiot. but tell me some more how kebab shops are going to blur all boundaries.

you've 'travelled widely' and yet you can't appreciate the great cities of europe for their own qualities. for what reason? oh because muslims live in them now. i really honestly pity you.

also, seoul? a city rebuilt from scratch in 1960? seoul, with american convenience stores on every single street corner, luxury european fashion boutiques, apple stores and german cars? seoul, famous for its fried chicken, craft beer, and thousands of coffee shops – those ultra-korean inventions? are you sure about your little theory, dilbert? i'm not sure how a city levelled by total war in the last 75 years and rebuilt with massive support from western powers is meant to reflect that vague claim to a 'historically insular monoculture' you keep going on about. you might want to think a little harder about all the alarm you're making about african restaurants and kebabs. i bet you think they invented k-pop and k-dramas in a cultural vacuum too, right? whoosh ...

it's ironic that the right-wing cultural conservative koreans you like to quasi-identify with are also pseudo-scientific and historically illiterate. claims for korean 'homogeneity' and the 'pureness' of the korean race are, of course, entirely factitious. the ethnic purity you keep going on about is an agreed upon fiction: a creation of a government census. like all claims about 'races' and 'peoples', the science quickly vacates the room when you look at the long historical record or, better yet, the genetic record. it's a small peninsula surrounded by gigantic powers that has been invaded, occupied, conquered and reconquered dozens of times in the last 2000-2500 years. there is NO 'pure' korean blood or culture. the reason that the right-wing and establishment here have been so vociferous and defensive about it is because, er, they've been the victims of chinese and japanese designs for many long-suffering centuries. it's an entirely historical process and unique to here.  speaking of which:

historically insular monoculture
korea was isolationist for all of about 150 years. like japan, it was a political choice in response to the threat of forced trade and aggressive religious conversion from missionaries (as well as threats from its near neighbours). the reasons they have stuck out in the western perception, and in western historiography, as 'hermit kingdoms' are because of this opposition to the west. of course korea has long overlapping histories with its own immediate neighbours and is just as much of an organic mix of influences as a result. (japan? that other monocultural, homogeneous society with a history of isolation? with their pure imperial dynasty with, er, korean blood, you mean?) claims for korea's special purity or homogeneity are inventions of a very recent nationalism – the japanese occupied it for decades and tried to erase their names and language ffs. the resulting national mythos is a predictable reaction.

cultures change, adapt and grow. they are pervious to outside and inside influences. cultures are dynamic and organic. you refute all of that. you have a cemetery gravestone conception of culture, propped up by antique and outmoded 'race science'. just because a culture is subject to change or admits outside influences, doesn't mean it 'loses' itself; and culture is not reducible to race (for that even to be possible, race itself would have to be a coherent concept, which it is not). european historians can be frank and open about this process, talk about the mutability and contingency of 'frenchness', 'britishness', etc, and only bitter acrimony between korea and japan and korea and china stops cultural conservatives here from frankly admitting the same.

great replacement theory, fears of races mixing, notions of nation built on 'race': it's all so terribly 19th century dilbert. major cities have had international communities, diasporas, migrant workers, and, yes, FOREIGN CUISINE AND GOODS, for as long as fucking cities have been a thing. your paranoia about cities bringing surrounding peoples and cultures together with their centripetal-commercial force is fucking dumb. you'd be complaining about the 'chaos' and 'cultural genocide' back in ancient mesopotamia.
I'm sorry, I wasn't listening, could you say that again?

London and Paris have changed beyond recognition in my lifetime, they've reached social tipping points, not long before they hit structural tipping points. The UK has had a brain drain too you know.

Still the only positive you can come up with for multiculturalism is 'FOREIGN CUISINE', I hope you're soaking up the karaoke bars and noodle stalls.
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5005|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i really think that 95% of dilbert’s animus and motivation here is psychosexual. he either fancies me or wants my life. he acts like a curmudgeon because he doesn’t know how to connect with the deep torrents of homosexual feeling that surge within him.
Once again you're not a psychoanalyst, and no I don't want you or your life, thanks.
#FreeBritney
Larssen
Member
+62|786
Dilbert your emigration from the UK was more like bloodletting than braindrain for the country
uziq
Member
+393|2351
dilbert are you venting on english radio again?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ … ot-english

also LOL that you think my main interest in multiculturalism is foreign cuisine. have you seen the thread you’re ranting in my guy? collect yourself and try and make a point.

dilbert ‘why travel anywhere that has kebab shops? same ruined culture’.

dilbert ‘korea is an ethnically pure monoculture that surely hasn’t been touched by outside influence’.

LMAO yes, south korea, the crucible of one of the 20th century’s biggest ideological and military conflicts, and which has had major US support for 50+ years, untouched by foreign culture. my guy korea is basically western capitalism on steroids: the high-speed collision of cultures is what makes it such a dynamic and interesting place. there’s temples, hanok villages, neon-lit churches and starbucks: often on the same block. you’re taking a soundbite-level factoid about its ‘ethnic purity’, which is itself a convenient national myth, and extrapolating and projecting a bit. methinks you’ve never been to east asia if you think it’s ‘unpolluted’ by multiculturalism. korea’s two biggest cultural exports now are boy band/girl band pop music and tv dramas. they’re literally repackaging the 1990s and selling it back to the west.

it’s also funny to me that arabs/muslims are always the cause for concern. you do know korea is more devoutly and evangelically christian than most of western europe, right? church attendance here is high; new mega-churches are common. many koreans identify as protestant and catholic. but it’s kebab shops that spell a culture’s demise

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-29 19:28:37)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5670|USA

I could attest for a significant rate of Korean Christianity, but we all know that once Koreans step foot in America for whatever reason, they apparently cease being Korean. Any conversation with them is automatically invalid!
uziq
Member
+393|2351
many right-wing koreans are discrminatory towards korean-americans, or koreans with mixed chinese or mixed japanese roots. that's because of the very recent political history, not because they have an ultra pure ethnicity. it's a collective fiction and an instrumental bit of ideology, like all 'ethnicity'-based political arguments really.

the fact that korean americans face harsh judgment at home is as much to do with things like them dodging national service and enjoying better material and educational circumstances, and is not ascribed solely to views on the steadfast 'purity of the race'. it remains a very inconvenient truth for the korean right-wing that there are tonnes of mixed ethnicities in korea, including a large group of chinese and large numbers of koreans with japanese names, japanese language at home, etc. to say nothing of the differences in the population between koreans with mongolian/siberian genetics and those with chinese or japanese genetics.

both things, the objective historical (or even biological) fact and the reality-denying political view, can obviously coexist. all the train signs here are in korean, japanese, chinese and english. the same subway plays american baseball games on the in-carriage tv screens. it's not some monolithic and perfectly preserved monoculture as dilbert keeps dishonestly trying to portray.

the fact dilbert turns a blind eye to the alien quality of the main abrahamic religion to change korea and korean culture, says all you need to know about his ideas about 'preserving ethnicities' and 'the danger to the future'. when it's the white christian religion that's being exported to the world, or western burger franchises or coffee shops, he doesn't lose much sleep.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-30 03:22:56)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5005|eXtreme to the maX
So they adopted a cult, anyway it is practically a mono-racial culture, that was the point.

I suppose you could only have done better if you'd gone to Japan or Israel from that point of view.
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5670|USA

I was a kid in a Taekwondo class with a Korean instructor and a large number of Korean clientele, and never felt isolated. I've never been looked at funny in 30+ years of shopping at Korean markets (but have politely taken my share of church pamphlets from eager Korean missionaries), or judged by Koreans playing games on the internet. Views exclusively from the peninsula aside, some of the people I've talked to here aren't even Korean Americans, but are visiting family over here. Derision for Koreans living here has never come up in any conversation. I've seen more contempt for other cultures in the past year on this website than I've heard from Koreans and Korean Americans in my life, and it's a spit in the bucket compared to what I've heard from Americans and Australians.

Anyway it's not really the same place it was in 1866 is it. Something-something racial monoculture in the countryside maybe.

I merely contend that I don't have to burn jet fuel for a hundred flights across the planet for a reasonable, if maybe incomplete impression of other countries (coronavirus cabin fever sucks, though). Nor does bringing up the country mean I'm looking for some sort of gotcha here.
uziq
Member
+393|2351

Dilbert_X wrote:

So they adopted a cult, anyway it is practically a mono-racial culture, that was the point.

I suppose you could only have done better if you'd gone to Japan or Israel from that point of view.
what on earth is a 'mono-racial culture'? confucianism? is that 'korean'? christianity, their main modern religion, is not korean.

can you tell me how the supposed 'mono-race', which is biological nonsense, by the way (LOOK at the long historical record of migration patterns, invasions, displacements and ingressing/egressing population groups on the korean peninsula), has led to their culture? please, tell me which parts of modern korea are unique and typical of their race? it isn't their corporations, their industries, their universities, their arts and culture, their pop culture, or their traditional spiritual beliefs or traditional architecture. nothing is specifically of a 'korean' RACE, except perhaps a particular idiom of temple building and a certain style of burial.

what does determine korea is their language and alphabet: something which evidently a wide variety of ethnicities and genetic mixes on the peninsula have had access to, and which they have used to constitute a modern nation. but a language does not have to imply a race. the entire french empire was sown on the idea of the french language, and french citizenship historically has been accessed in large part via their language, for example. (don't think too hard about the difference between normans and provencal!!! the genius of the french mono-race, right?)

i really wish people like you, who have such strong fucking opinions on race/ethnicity, could even think for longer than 5 minutes about the concept. you claim to be a man of science and yet you are SO fucking unscientific. there is NO pure korean race and the country today, a modern, westernized, industrialized capitalist democracy, sure as fuck isn't a product of a 'korean mono-race'. even the things most identified with korea's traditions and historical heritage, such as its confucian attitudes, ARE NOT originally or exclusively from korea. so much for the dangers of cultures mixing and the world being doomed when they do so ...

Japan or Israel
japan? their imperial dynasty is part korean. israel? the israeli 'mono-race'? are you fucking stupid? you do realize israel is made up of a huge and diverse number of ethnicities, right? russian jews are the not the same as southern spanish jews. askhenazi and sephardi? come on, USE your fucking HEAD.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-30 04:18:36)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+450|2618

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I was a kid in a Taekwondo class with a Korean instructor and a large number of Korean clientele, and never felt isolated. I've never been looked at funny in 30+ years of shopping at Korean markets (but have politely taken my share of church pamphlets from eager Korean missionaries), or judged by Koreans playing games on the internet. Views exclusively from the peninsula aside, some of the people I've talked to here aren't even Korean Americans, but are visiting family over here. Derision for Koreans living here has never come up in any conversation. I've seen more contempt for other cultures in the past year on this website than I've heard from Koreans and Korean Americans in my life, and it's a spit in the bucket compared to what I've heard from Americans and Australians.

Anyway it's not really the same place it was in 1866 is it. Something-something racial monoculture in the countryside maybe.

I merely contend that I don't have to burn jet fuel for a hundred flights across the planet for a reasonable, if maybe incomplete impression of other countries (coronavirus cabin fever sucks, though). Nor does bringing up the country mean I'm looking for some sort of gotcha here.
I was in Taekwondo as a child and made it to 2nd degree blackbelt at the age of 14. I still have the fancy certificate from the 'World Taekwondo Headquarters' acknowledging that accomplishment. The 'World Taekwondo Headquarters' is actually a real thing since Taekwondo itself is a regulated cultural export of Korea. 
Kukkiwon (Korean: 국기원; Hanja: 國技院), also known as World Taekwondo Headquarters, and home of the World Taekwondo Academy, is where the official taekwondo governing organisation was established by the South Korean government.[1] It is supervised by the International Sports Division of the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism.
There is a lot more interesting stuff about my time in TKD but I will spare you.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5670|USA

I would totally recommend it to parents looking for some sort of activity to keep their kids fit. I was getting defined abs in like grade school, and other kids wouldn't start fights with me. Not being randomly pulled into scuffles that would get me in trouble was rather peaceful time.

Would love to regain the range of flexibility, especially useful for wiping out during skiing, but eh.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5005|eXtreme to the maX
I was using the scientific definition of monoculture.

Hint - Its nothing to do with arts, restaurants etc
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+393|2351
lmao. yes the korean monoculture.

that is precisely to do with arts, customs, cuisine, and forms of expression - that's what a culture is, dipshit. it's a concept summing up a 'way of life', 'the way we do things', identity-forming communal and social activities. what do you think 'cultural' conservatives are arguing over?  gene expressions and phenotypes?

korea has been isolationist (joseon era) and protectionist, certainly. it is a very young democracy. but to claim that this has anything to do with their 'race' or 'ethnicity' is pseudo-scientific goddledigook peddled by right-wing nationalists. an honest view of culture recognises that they are organic, ever-changing, and open to many influencing factors.  so for you to say that a culture is 'doomed' and 'reduced to mud' when it admits other ethnicities, and then hold up korea is pretty fucking funny. there IS NO pure korean ethnicity, other than as a tickbox-exercise on a census.

why is so much of the korean 'monoculture' similar to japan's? or china's? really make u think doesn't it.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-30 07:35:40)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,906|5531|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I was a kid in a Taekwondo class with a Korean instructor and a large number of Korean clientele, and never felt isolated. I've never been looked at funny in 30+ years of shopping at Korean markets (but have politely taken my share of church pamphlets from eager Korean missionaries), or judged by Koreans playing games on the internet. Views exclusively from the peninsula aside, some of the people I've talked to here aren't even Korean Americans, but are visiting family over here. Derision for Koreans living here has never come up in any conversation. I've seen more contempt for other cultures in the past year on this website than I've heard from Koreans and Korean Americans in my life, and it's a spit in the bucket compared to what I've heard from Americans and Australians.

Anyway it's not really the same place it was in 1866 is it. Something-something racial monoculture in the countryside maybe.

I merely contend that I don't have to burn jet fuel for a hundred flights across the planet for a reasonable, if maybe incomplete impression of other countries (coronavirus cabin fever sucks, though). Nor does bringing up the country mean I'm looking for some sort of gotcha here.
I was in Taekwondo as a child and made it to 2nd degree blackbelt at the age of 14. I still have the fancy certificate from the 'World Taekwondo Headquarters' acknowledging that accomplishment. The 'World Taekwondo Headquarters' is actually a real thing since Taekwondo itself is a regulated cultural export of Korea. 
Kukkiwon (Korean: 국기원; Hanja: 國技院), also known as World Taekwondo Headquarters, and home of the World Taekwondo Academy, is where the official taekwondo governing organisation was established by the South Korean government.[1] It is supervised by the International Sports Division of the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism.
There is a lot more interesting stuff about my time in TKD but I will spare you.
The fact you were a 2nd degree black belt at 14 leads be to believe the belt system is a joke. You reached master-level status as a 14 year old? Lol okay!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+450|2618
I acknowledge that the whole thing is literally part of the Korean tourism industry.

If you would like to now talk about how you are a blue belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu after spending many months rubbing up against the inner thighs of South American mulattos please go ahead.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,888|5670|USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

The fact you were a 2nd degree black belt at 14 leads be to believe the belt system is a joke. You reached master-level status as a 14 year old? Lol okay!
It's actually the subject of some debate. I'd argue that it's good marketing that helps studios pay the bills, and maybe to not consider a child black belt a master. And also that it might probably foster arrogance in a kid that will get them in trouble.

In BJJ, I think the highest you can get as a kid is green. Blue is supposed to be a pretty good achievement. ATA, felt more or less automatic if you passed the "kata." Kukkiwon/Olympic-style WTF felt a bit more paced.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,906|5531|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I acknowledge that the whole thing is literally part of the Korean tourism industry.

If you would like to now talk about how you are a blue belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu after spending many months rubbing up against the inner thighs of South American mulattos please go ahead.
I got my homoeroticism out of my system on the wrestling mats. I started folkstyle wrestling the summer between 6th and 7th grade.

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