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DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+756|5489|United States of America
Did they say that AOC's call to not forget about the enablers of the Trump administration in positions of power means she wants to round up all his exurban voters and put them in a concentration camp, though?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,869|5576|USA

No, they are inconsistently informed on the goings on of AOC's career. But one thing's for sure, she's out of her element! I think it's currently Pelosi who wants to round up Republicans and put them in camps.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4910|eXtreme to the maX
Germany and France attacked Twitter Inc. and Facebook Inc. after U.S. President Donald Trump was shut off from the social media platforms, in an extension of Europe’s battle with big tech.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … roblematic
Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2524
Germany and France meanwhile have laws against hate speech. They should hush.
uziq
Member
+379|2256
that's rather their whole point.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5579|Moscow, Russia

Bloomberg wrote:

Germany and France attacked Twitter Inc. and Facebook Inc. after U.S. President Donald Trump was shut off from the social media platforms, in an extension of Europe’s battle with big tech.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies.
of course she would, the fasade - and, incidentally, her own position - must be maintained. everybody must take the long road of going to lobbyists and buying the services of those lawmakers - and then whoever buys the most gets to to set the rules governing free speech or whatever else they want. that's how <checks notes> vibrant democracy works there.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2524

Shahter wrote:

Bloomberg wrote:

Germany and France attacked Twitter Inc. and Facebook Inc. after U.S. President Donald Trump was shut off from the social media platforms, in an extension of Europe’s battle with big tech.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies.
of course she would, the fasade - and, incidentally, her own position - must be maintained. everybody must take the long road of going to lobbyists and buying the services of those lawmakers - and then whoever buys the most gets to to set the rules governing free speech or whatever else they want. that's how <checks notes> vibrant democracy works there.
Honestly not too far off. The EU has been out to get American tech companies for decades now. They have launched a lot of dubious antitrust suits over the years. Probably has to do with the fact that despite Europe's tech and education parity, they don't have very many tech companies on equal footing with silicon valley. That said, no one here including me should take any pride in America's tech companies. They aren't personally paying our bills.
Larssen
Member
+55|692
That's part of the reason, yes, US companies are very dominating in the EU market. But there have also been justified concerns about stifling competition and in the handling of data.

Merkel's and other government's position is simply to protect their own authority vis a vis the private sector and the digital space as they want to prevent twitter from setting a precedent. But it's not as though twitter is truly wrong here, the subject of misinformation has been discussed in parliamentary working groups and on a bureaucratic level for at least 10 years yet there's a neverending impasse. Especially in the US it seems. So of course at some point you have to consider doing something about it and if nothing else that one action will help actually stimulate debates on what should/shouldn't be allowed in the public space and who's responsible for it.

Shahter your notion of the power of lobbyism is completely off the mark here, but whatever. It's just a new extension of your capitalism sucks dogma.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-01-14 06:15:09)

uziq
Member
+379|2256
i am happier having the state tending the garden of free speech than leaving it to private companies.

at least governments are notionally accountable and we can vote them in/out. tech companies are beholden to the egos of their owners or the financial interests of their boards/shareholders.

Shahter your notion of the power of lobbyism is completely off the mark here, but whatever. It's just a new extension of your capitalism sucks dogma.
a person who is nostalgic for fucking stalinism and the USSR should not have any right to gripe at the west's lucubrations over 'free speech'. this guy is criticizing the (marginal) influence of lobbyists and private money on the free speech debate whilst continually calling for a return to a form of government in which censorship and strangled speech was the norm. lmao wtf. fuck OFF shahter.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-14 06:24:34)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,869|5576|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Germany and France attacked Twitter Inc. and Facebook Inc. after U.S. President Donald Trump was shut off from the social media platforms, in an extension of Europe’s battle with big tech.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … roblematic
It's hilarious to me hearing old farts make sweeping pronouncements about a platform they don't really seem to understand.

It's an empty accusation. Twitter is not making rules about free speech by banning users. It sucks if you're a homebody and facebook was the only method you used to talk to friends and family, but there are many other ways. Even if facebook/twitter/etc. were nationalized (don't you dare call for this, Republicans, etc.), I imagine there would still be rules users had to abide by. And that things like the endless trolling and threats on such a platform might be taken more seriously by law enforcement, similar to harassing a clerk at a DMV adjoined to a sheriff's station.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,900|5436|949

"The newspaper wouldn't publish my op-ed, they are censoring me!"
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,869|5576|USA

Has Merkel ever spoken up about lowly commoners getting banned on social media, getting their free speech "taken away?" Only Trump's?
uziq
Member
+379|2256
dilbert has rubbed it in my face so many times that i was banned from this forum when my big meanie posts hurt people’s feelings and didn’t meet the rules.

now he’s shook to his very core that donald trump has finally been banned from twitter after consistently breaking its terms of service for years and now GOT PEOPLE KILLED.

b b b b muh freedom of speech

l o l

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-15 00:37:44)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4910|eXtreme to the maX
Twitter etc are part of the fabric now, BF2S probably not.

But I guess we can just uninvent modern media and politicians can go back to making speeches from the end of railcars.

https://i.insider.com/5e1c9eaa24fe125346637245?width=750&amp;format=jpeg&amp;auto=webp
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+379|2256
no other politician in the world uses twitter like trump did? direct connections between a leader and the people tends to generate populist froth.

why are you making out like donald trump conducting global diplomacy from a room with the curtains shut, fox news on the tv all afternoon, and his unfiltered thoughts on a phone ... are the new standard for political discourse?

i think it would be to everyone’s benefit if politics regained its self-respect.

people give speeches. people campaign. i don’t know what conducting politics-by-twitter every waking day has to do with it.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4910|eXtreme to the maX
What if I told you - the internet is how people communicate these days.

I mean, aren't half your posts twitter links and a one word comment?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-01-15 00:55:38)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+379|2256
am i a politician?

i already told you that your ‘roman forum’ analogies are apt: the fora were for the POPULACE to exchange ideas and goods, not where the senators undertook affairs of state.

do keep up.
uziq
Member
+379|2256

Dilbert_X wrote:

What if I told you - the internet is how people communicate these days.

I mean, aren't half your posts twitter links and a one word comment?
and what if i told you that every media channel and method of communication available to politicians in the past has been equally free to accept or reject a politician’s words?

did the times run articles from jeremy corbyn? how often do you see a quality nigel farage editorial in the guardian?

twitter’s administration is nothing like so political. they ask for a bare community minimum involving the law and personal safety. and i already detailed the huge efforts they went to in recent months to go beyond that to hold trump’s many statements accountable after he began using twitter to discredit an election and incite violence.

o m G b b b b but my guys need to be heard
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4910|eXtreme to the maX
Yes but we're a bit beyond roman times now.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+379|2256
you were the one who kept banging on about the spirit of the forum, trying to sound grandiloquent, not me. i guess because you’re as historically illiterate in understanding the concept as with any number of other things that you’d rather retract the analogy: okay, fine with me.

i’ve been on twitter for 12 years or so. you don’t have to tell me what it is or what era we’re living in. i’m more au fait with these networks than you are.

trump was an aberration and a one-off. politicians do not use twitter to connect to their base in anything like the same way. trump literally raised an army of insurrectionists. it’s a cult. he has used twitter to bypass editorial scrutiny, fact checking standards, and basic laws of publication; no newspaper or tv media could conscionably reproduce the stuff he scatter-sprayed all over twitter. even fox news eventually had to start cutting him off and heavily disclaiming the things he was saying.

he has become dangerous and his direct appeals to his followers, via twitter and rallies, is his whole mode. what other politician conducts politics in this way today in a self-respecting democratic state? when trump is feeling cornered, he goes on twitter. when trump sees his ratings dip, he stages some rallies. it’s populism, straight up. it has become a danger to the very fabric of representative democracy. trump was using twitter for months to try and discredit a legal election. the president of the united states used twitter to denounce his vice-president and incite a mob against him ffs.

trump has always been against ‘MSM’ and old democratic norms. now he literally has a cult of followers who are prepared to die for him, who exist totally outside of the ‘mainstream’ world of fact.

and still you’re pretending like politicians on twitter is the nature of democracy now. jesus christ look at the twitter feeds of No. 10. of macron. of merkel. it’s just dry, stale, officialese, another online channel for their public statements. not comparable in the slightest.

it would be interesting to chart trump’s downward spiral with twitter. 4/5 years ago he was using it every day to comment on celebrity gossip. remember when he gave relationship advice to robert pattinson and that girl from twilight?

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-15 01:26:42)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4910|eXtreme to the maX
OK great, I think I'll let Merkel and Macron take it from here.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+379|2256
er, yes, i do much prefer their approach to communications than trump and populism. i don't care what their agenda or politics are. they are upholding an office of state and behaving with something like objectivity and propriety.

trump-on-twitter turned the world's most powerful elected office into a place for stropping and teenage moodswings. with 40 million people with guns watching and feeding off it. no thanks.

please stop pretending this way of using twitter is 'the future' of democracy or the new normal. it is not. too bad for you, evidently.
uziq
Member
+379|2256
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AL_yYeC0Mtrloc7aQX9o5w2O54I=/0x0:1176x616/fit-in/1200x630/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11730239/Trump_Iran_tweet.png

seems like a good way to conduct international politics with heavily armed rival states.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2021-01/6/22/asset/6c2b5f5c75da/sub-buzz-28017-1609973030-2.png

democracy as soap opera. fitting for a reality tv presidency. wow the future is bright! what an improvement!

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-15 01:29:58)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,869|5576|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Twitter etc are part of the fabric now, BF2S probably not.

But I guess we can just uninvent modern media and politicians can go back to making speeches from the end of railcars.

Dilbert, you can lose your driver's license if you disobey the rules in a certain way. There are things you can do instead, like call an Indian cab driver.

Twitter is NOT a government institution. While social media companies should be subject to certain regulations, maybe once they reach a certain size, they should otherwise be free to make and enforce their own rules about content posted to their platform. Twitter being bigger than BF2S isn't really relevant.

Trump has plenty of means at his disposal to Get the Word Out. He can find another platform or pay for his own.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4910|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Dilbert, you can lose your driver's license if you disobey the rules in a certain way.
Yes, and thats decided by a democratic govt with judicial oversight, not some nerd who was lucky his platform got lucky.

Trump has plenty of means at his disposal to Get the Word Out. He can find another platform or pay for his own.
Yes, perhaps carrier pigeons or smoke signals.
Epstein didn't kill himself

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