uziq
Member
+497|3712


god bless these principled white people, destroying property and tearing down streets in philadelphia, engaging in wanton destruction ... because their team won the superbowl.

totally understandable.

but black people burning down a store because they are sick of being executed by police? because they are sick of having their lives devalued, and considered as cheap and expendable? THESE PEOPLE ARE A DANGER TO OUR CIVILIZATION.
Larssen
Member
+99|2147
Getting back to a more normal discussion: going over the division between the parties it's hard for me to identify concrete issues/ideological rifts and grievances at the root of this that could cause further escalation. The whole (violent) rioting seems to be caused primarily and only because of dominating enemy narratives. The democrats are supposedly inherently evil and they're part of a political swamp surrounded by all sorts of conspiracies. The republicans are oppressive racists, offensive and only for the rich.

There's good news in this because any real schism also usually needs real issues. A central point of importance in which both find fundamentally opposing views. Like the issues of slavery, its importance in the economy and the right to secede pre-empted the civil war. The power of narratives opposed to this can go far, but only so far. It's hard to imagine anyone but the most brainwashed crackpots will mass weaponry and stage attacks; at this point the worst that could imaginably happen is domestic terrorism.

While still a real, urgent and worrying I don't think it is likely things will escalate beyond the absolute fringe and the possibility of isolated instances of terrorism. Self-radicalisation is the greatest threat here and it follows to say a lot of effort should be put into managing misinformation content and their consumption, esp. through sorting algorithms. It's no coincidence all those at the capitol were absolute conspiracy nutters.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6945|United States of America
I was thinking along similar lines yesterday trying to figure out where we go from here. A disconcerting amount of people still don't see anything wrong, and a lot of Republicans (including those whose lives were at risk) will continue to be "very concerned" but not act. There's a victimhood censorship narrative being formed as they search for their echo chambers, and I understand Gab has seen a spike in users recently. They're drunk on a sense of grievance and continuing to back themselves into a corner of their own making.

How do we fix it? I doubt a Biden administration de-Nazification analogue would be well-received. Republicans have also ceded their party to Trump, so there's no respected figures to give a denouncement a la Stalin, either. I don't know how to snap people back into objective reality.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
At this point I would label Trump probably the worst president we have had yet. I know that sounds crazy but let me explain: whenever historians rank presidents, the bottom three are always the three presidents before Lincoln that oversaw the dissolution of the union into Civil War. The reason I would say Trump is worse than any of those guys is because as Larssen said, slavery was a major issue that predated the leadership of any of those men. Trump on the other hand spawned this chaos on his own. He took preexisting issues and made them into crisis.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+497|3712
i would broadly agree. not only his unique mishandling and personal liabilities, but also just in terms of delivering on his own election pledges.

are any average blue-collar americans' lives better after 4 years of trump?

his 'law and order' platform is obviously a nonsense: the country has descended into protest, outcry and lawlessness on several occasions, often times at his behest and encouragement. the president has surrounded himself with a personal circle of fraudsters and crooks.

where are the jobs and fruits of protectionism? trade wars with china harmed american farmers and workers.

where's the revivified coal industry in appalachia and all those regions that went hard for trump? coal mines are closing at their quickest ever rate due to fracking/tar sands investment elsewhere, most notably in canada.

where's the wall and the solved immigration crisis? more pie-in-the-sky thinking, smokes and mirrors.

trump has predictably overseen a vast transfer of wealth and power to a select few and brought a whole new level of self-interested sleaze to washington. rather than 'draining the swamp', he has, in the eyes of the whole world, introduced several criminals into the executive/white house, many of whom he has already pardoned. he's gone to war with his own intelligence agencies and spun a web of conspiratorial nonsense that has undermined faith in government, rather than rebuilding it and regenerating 'the swamp'.

and, of course, covid, which is not so much a footnote as a giant gaping wound. half a million americans will die because trump was more interested in twitter spats and his golf courses. the richest country on earth with the greatest wherewithal to protect itself has suffered a generational trauma on the order of a world war.

amazingly hopeless. and destructive.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-10 09:42:50)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
Prior to COVID, I considered 9/11 to be the start of the obvious decline of the U.S. I think we will look back and say that COVID was the moment that it became clear that the momentum of the world had shifted to China. The takeover of the capital building was capstone event to all of it.

There's a lot more to say about all of this but it's barely worth the trouble thinking about these damned fools.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Larssen
Member
+99|2147
With China's current trajectory and their complete denial of any sort of responsibility in covid's growth to a pandemic I would strongly support our countries minimising diplomatic involvement with them and shifting economic dependence elsewhere. So perhaps the US is not out yet.
uziq
Member
+497|3712
even in the darkest hours of 9/11, i don't think anyone could have even conceived a national nadir and disgrace such as has been seen under trump. if you had told someone in 2001 or 2002 that america would be helplessly over-run by a pandemic that was contained by countries like vietnam and taiwan, people would have laughed til blue in the face. imagine telling someone with a straight face that america would fail to deal with a preventable pandemic because americans were busy punching one another in the streets over wearing protective masks.

would republicans have been so batshit crazy and science-denying and conspiratorial under bush?

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-10 10:09:20)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
There is a video of the cop that got killed getting dragged into the crowd and throttled.
https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout … gged_into/

So far no video of the fatal fire can hit has been released as far as I know but we do have a picture of the cop injured.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErWiHhuW4AAIXjR?format=jpg&name=medium
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
Sen. Pat Toomey said Sunday that President Donald Trump should resign from office and could face "criminal liability" after the deadly insurrection at the US Capitol, becoming the second Republican senator to call for the President's resignation.

"I think at this point, with just a few days left, it's the best path forward, the best way to get this person in the rearview mirror for us that could happen immediately," the Pennsylvania Republican told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union." "I'm not optimistic it will. But I think that would be the best way forward."
Toomey joins a gr
owing number of Republicans who want the President out of office before President-elect Joe Biden is sworn in as the next president on January 20. He is now the second Republican US senator to call for Trump's resignation. On Friday, Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski told the Anchorage Daily News, "I want him out. He has caused enough damage."
Significant.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+497|3712

SuperJail Warden wrote:

There is a video of the cop that got killed getting dragged into the crowd and throttled.
https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout … gged_into/

So far no video of the fatal fire can hit has been released as far as I know but we do have a picture of the cop injured.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErWiHhuW4AAIXjR?format=jpg&name=medium
the great white civilization in action.

i think footage like that should just put the argument to bed once and for all: never has a left-wing or black or radical trans-lesbian group ever committed such a crime, so brazenly, in such a symbolic way. it just doesn't happen.

not only that, this guy was brutally murdered in the middle of a large crowd, with not a single one urging restraint or trying to do the right thing.

and the white house refused to lower the flags to half-mast to mark his death.

just so beyond fucked.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-10 12:00:13)

Larssen
Member
+99|2147
Trump supporter beats a cop to death with the American flag. How symbolic is that?
Damn
Larssen
Member
+99|2147

uziq wrote:

would republicans have been so batshit crazy and science-denying and conspiratorial under bush?
Kind of, difference is a few hundred thousand iraqis died as a result. But they don't matter because they're foreign 'towelheads' and 'sandn---'.
uziq
Member
+497|3712
that was just straight-up neocon hawkishness. the people at the top knew what they were doing and the voters had their base emotions played upon. it wasn't really conspiratorial on the level of the trumpers. that madness came with the tea party.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7032|PNW

uziq wrote:

even in the darkest hours of 9/11, i don't think anyone could have even conceived a national nadir and disgrace such as has been seen under trump. if you had told someone in 2001 or 2002 that america would be helplessly over-run by a pandemic that was contained by countries like vietnam and taiwan, people would have laughed til blue in the face. imagine telling someone with a straight face that america would fail to deal with a preventable pandemic because americans were busy punching one another in the streets over wearing protective masks.

would republicans have been so batshit crazy and science-denying and conspiratorial under bush?
I say this in terms of having lived here, but the batshit crazy, science-denying, and endlessly conspiratorial was already established and newly expanding before Bush Jr. took office. Thanks in part due to right-wing radicalization programs polishing up old feelings, and prejudices (and bs like anti-vax) and shipping them out to a receptive audience.

I do think there are Trumpian lows to which W did not stoop, though. "Tre45on" has highlighted that the presidency is too powerful in the hands of a clinically self-absorbed madman and a sycophantic legislature. There should probably be stronger and more definitive rules in place as to what a president can and cannot do.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

uziq wrote:

even in the darkest hours of 9/11, i don't think anyone could have even conceived a national nadir and disgrace such as has been seen under trump. if you had told someone in 2001 or 2002 that america would be helplessly over-run by a pandemic that was contained by countries like vietnam and taiwan, people would have laughed til blue in the face. imagine telling someone with a straight face that america would fail to deal with a preventable pandemic because americans were busy punching one another in the streets over wearing protective masks.

would republicans have been so batshit crazy and science-denying and conspiratorial under bush?
I say this in terms of having lived here, but the batshit crazy, science-denying, and endlessly conspiratorial was already established and newly expanding before Bush Jr. took office. Thanks in part due to right-wing radicalization programs polishing up old feelings, and prejudices (and bs like anti-vax) and shipping them out to a receptive audience.

I do think there are Trumpian lows to which W did not stoop, though. "Tre45on" has highlighted that the presidency is too powerful in the hands of a clinically self-absorbed madman and a sycophantic legislature. There should probably be stronger and more definitive rules in place as to what a president can and cannot do.
I am sympathetic to the idea by some moderate conservatives that this is a good moment to peel back the Imperial Presidency. They have also well argued that by leaning more into federalism we could lower the national temperature. Let people in California and Texas make their own choices regarding cultural issues. It would be however unfair to deny democrats their 4 years of a strong executive after Trump.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+497|3712

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

uziq wrote:

even in the darkest hours of 9/11, i don't think anyone could have even conceived a national nadir and disgrace such as has been seen under trump. if you had told someone in 2001 or 2002 that america would be helplessly over-run by a pandemic that was contained by countries like vietnam and taiwan, people would have laughed til blue in the face. imagine telling someone with a straight face that america would fail to deal with a preventable pandemic because americans were busy punching one another in the streets over wearing protective masks.

would republicans have been so batshit crazy and science-denying and conspiratorial under bush?
I say this in terms of having lived here, but the batshit crazy, science-denying, and endlessly conspiratorial was already established and newly expanding before Bush Jr. took office. Thanks in part due to right-wing radicalization programs polishing up old feelings, and prejudices (and bs like anti-vax) and shipping them out to a receptive audience.

I do think there are Trumpian lows to which W did not stoop, though. "Tre45on" has highlighted that the presidency is too powerful in the hands of a clinically self-absorbed madman and a sycophantic legislature. There should probably be stronger and more definitive rules in place as to what a president can and cannot do.
that's a good point, alex jones was active in the 90s, and it definitely goes back to waco and the conservative talkshow hosts we all talk about here, after all reading the same DFW essay.

but i'm just not sure it ever broke into the political mainstream and credibility before the tea party/palin nomination.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7032|PNW

It was boiling under the surface of Republican America like the psychic slime in the NYC sewers of Ghostbusters 2. It was just waiting for someone to turn the tap.

https://i.imgur.com/HUpw8kI.gif

America soon, hopefully:

https://jodywebster.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/GB2.gif
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7032|PNW

Not sure if this was posted yet:



Would love some input from Hollis on this.

Anyway, I guess they got one:

Iowa man seen chasing cop in Capitol riot video arrested
https://nypost.com/2021/01/09/iowa-man- … -arrested/
uziq
Member
+497|3712
quite a few have been arrested already. the guy who stole the speaker's podium was arrested in florida (of fucking course).

not the smartest bunch, openly live-streaming their sedition and federal trespass all over social media.

a huge concerted effort has been made to archive as much video/photo footage as possible. lol, naturally they've all been trying to scrub their profiles and hide.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7032|PNW

Yeah the FBI tip page for this is very reposted. I've seen tons of posts on the internet identifying and describing individuals caught on camera. Hope they throw the book at each one.
uziq
Member
+497|3712
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
Democrat resolution tomorrow will be a declaration that they will start a second impeachment if Pence doesn't invoke the 25th amendment. First impeachment vote will be Tuesday. After that the whole thing is murky.

Bad situation. I don't like this idea of using the 25th amendment. The vice president getting a bunch of cabinet secretaries to go along with removing the president is also a coup even if legal.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6945|United States of America
Definitionally, yes, it's a means to oust the president from power, but it's a tool in the box for this situation (though it applies elsewhere as well). If you do have some sort of Mad King scenario, that option does seem useful. I'm not sure what happens because so many Cabinet positions are acting secretaries, though.
uziq
Member
+497|3712

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