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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
Wow, all those highly educated morons really fucked up

We have defended the theoretical possibility of doing things we don’t actually want to do, like lower our environmental standards or support failing industries, in return for giving up measures that would increase our prosperity.
So we have spent the last weeks fighting (and losing) over fishing, which represents 0.1 percent of our economy, while accepting that services, which represents 80 percent of our economy and where we have a competitive advantage, is excluded from the agreement.
https://www.politico.eu/article/5-reaso … xit-talks/
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
LMAO

‘Sacrificed for a bunch of fish’: How the City of London got turned over by Brexit in week one


The City of London had a taste of the fruits of Brexit this week – and it was not pleasant.

On 4 January – the first trading day of 2021 – billions of euros of business left the UK for the European Union. Some €5bn of trading in shares ranging from French banks to German car companies departed London and reappeared in financial centres in mainland Europe such as Paris and Amsterdam.

The shift was a direct consequence of EU financial regulations that stipulate that trading in EU companies (such as Volkswagen, Airbus and BNP Paribas) when it is done by EU firms, must be transacted within the bloc.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi … 84497.html
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
LMAO

The website of pro-Brexit pressure group Leave.EU has been suspended amid a row over its attempt to switch its registration to Ireland to avoid losing its .eu domain name.

The group, founded by businessman Arron Banks and supported by Nigel Farage, moved its registration from the UK to Waterford in the Republic of Ireland shortly before the end of the transition to Brexit on New Year’s Eve, to get round a rule stating that .eu addresses can only be used by individuals and organisations based in the EU.

But now the EURid agency which oversees the .eu suffix has said the site is under investigation following a dispute over the move.

Visitors to the web page were greeted with the error message “This site can’t be reached.”


And EURid’s website stated that the leave.eu domain was registered to the group’s Waterford address, but added that it was “temporarily inactive (ie website and email do not function) and under investigation”.

Irish businessman Sean Power, who is registered as the legal owner of the domain, has said he has no links with Leave.EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p … 88267.html
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
they all moved their businesses to ireland or europe.

jacob rees-mogg, pantomime edwardian squire, moved his hedge fund to ireland.

arron banks moved all his business dealings including the leave U.K. stuff to ireland.

boris johnson’s dad has applied for a french passport.

i mean i called all of this stuff about the ‘hard brexiteers’ and ‘let’s make britain better for business’ lot about 5 years ago. it’s not exactly anything new. this stripmining has been going on since the 1980s. these people effortlessly glide around a system of global finance that has been rigged for their benefit for generations.

i’m sure if you already are the director of 4 holding companies registered in tax havens that relocating your business to ireland doesn’t seem very noteworthy.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
I'd put their heads on pikes, but someone would get offended.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
oh, the ‘woke police’ you mean?

you play the conservatives’ craven culture wars fucking bullshit when it suits you. you LOVE recycling their points. when you know FULL WELL the greater damage that the same economic elites and right-wing are doing. the plundering, the tearing up of treaties, the privatization, the casual chumocracy, the selling off of bits of the state’s silverware to their mates.

you are such a weasel. you make out continually that ‘BLM nazis’ are on the cusp of dragging down western society into the stone ages, and parrot with smug approval the rubbish pushed up by culture warriors on the right.

you’re just like shahter going on and on about communist utopia whilst riding on putin’s dick. you two should get a dacha together and figure out what your actual political beliefs are.

jay may have changed his outlook like a weathervane but at least he was transparently consistent. you’re a contrarian whose only out to snipe and kick at people weaker than yourself when it suits you. ‘the woke mob’ and ‘statues’ indeed. those are the real problems facing western civilisation, aren’t they, and not the trumpists or neoliberals who have hollowed out the NHS and safety net before a pandemic?

MAKE YOU THINK!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,871|5585|USA

Mounting heads on a row of pikes is perfectly fine as long as you don't ban the deceased from twitter.
uziq
Member
+383|2265
also don't think about the timing of these political messages or their context! that's witchcraft.

i'm sure the conservatives' tabling laws about slave statues during the absolute nadir of the pandemic is just a coincidence.

let's get everyone worked up about the 'woke police' that are wreaking untold havoc to society at the moment.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-17 02:29:03)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

oh, the ‘woke police’ you mean?
No I mean Farage, Rees-Mogg etc you dozy hipster.

Its truly amazing what Farage, Trump etc have achieved with a bit of wooden populist rhetoric and ... nothing else.

I'm not sure where, between the intellect of the average person and the education system, the blame lies.
Critical thinking doesn't seem to get taught to the average person, could the average person learn it if they were?

Having said that I know some fairly dumb people without much education and they're a hell of a lot more perceptive than a lot of better educated people.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
i was referring to your 'but people would get offended' line. seemed to be yet another lazy, token swipe at the 'woke left wing libcucks'. you know, 'it's political correctness gone mad!' which i'm sure you've said umpteen times in your life.

Its truly amazing what Farage, Trump etc have achieved with a bit of wooden populist rhetoric and ... nothing else.
you're forgetting, er, with the aid of barely, if at all, regulated social media and big data campaigns.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/27/brexi … m3J5IlL7hS

A joint investigation by watchdogs in Canada and British Columbia has found that Cambridge Analytica-linked data firm, Aggregate IQ, broke privacy laws in Facebook ad-targeting work it undertook for the official Vote Leave Brexit campaign in the UK’s 2016 EU referendum.

Last year the UK’s Electoral Commission also concluded that Vote Leave breached election campaign spending limits by channeling money to AIQ to run the targeting political ads on Facebook’s platform, via undeclared joint working with another Brexit campaign, BeLeave. So there’s a full sandwich of legal wrongdoings stuck to the brexit mess that UK society remains mired in, more than three years later.

Meanwhile, the current UK General Election is now a digital petri dish for data scientists and democracy hackers to run wild experiments in microtargeted manipulation — given election laws haven’t been updated to take account of the outgrowth of the adtech industry’s tracking and targeting infrastructure, despite multiple warnings from watchdogs and parliamentarians.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44966969

https://committees.parliament.uk/writte … 5049/html/

During the 2016 referendum campaign we saw the then Lord High Chancellor, the most senior of the Great Offices of State, supporting a campaign [6] based almost entirely on lies [4], fake news [5], and false promises[3], and which employed consultants to send personalised messaging, not seen by the opposition, to those most susceptible to being influenced by them [5]. Democratic processes that allow this to happen are severely broken and must be fixed. I feel that the proposed Constitution, Democracy and Rights Commission is a good place to do this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook% … ta_scandal



http://infacts.org/vote-leave-lying-fac … -years-on/

https://infacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/vl_turkey.png

but yes, sure, just a bunch of geezers with some 'populist rhetoric'. btw it's really really important that donald trump be allowed on twitter.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-17 02:42:45)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
^ Does still come down to changing peoples minds through rhetoric, no-one had a gun held to their head or was reprogrammed with microwaves or LSD.

It can't be long ago that whole families would roll out for a hanging, now you can't questions someone's sexuality without people losing their minds.

The possibility of having your head on a spike at the tower for treasonous conduct might focus the minds of our politicians, its the first thing I'd bring back, with Brexit and the euro court not blocking everything it might be easier - every cloud has a silver lining eh.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-01-17 02:42:43)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
spoken like a true lickspittle fascist. let's resort to threatening people with violence - against other people, of course, and not your mummy and daddy and sister.

are you sure you didn't follow trump on twitter? because that's exactly what he was doing to interfere with democratic process.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/NA-gallows-comp.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=1200&h=800&crop=1

Does still come down to changing peoples minds through rhetoric, no-one had a gun held to their head or was reprogrammed with microwaves or LSD.
not really true. advertising campaigns ran by the likes of cambridgeanalytica relied upon reams of psychological data. they were very finely calibrated, and crucially inconspicuous, adverts designed purposefully to provoke and anger people. voters were encountering campaigns of misinformation on their facebook feeds, where they aren't expecting to be appraising 'political' information and judging it for its veracity.

the technology and thought put behind this stuff is highly complex and largely covert. it is not 'rational people deciding for themselves'. you are massively simplifying it. as of course you would, because it suits you.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-17 02:46:53)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
Well obviously beheading and spiking would need to be part of the normal judicial process - ie the king decides.

Also that gallows is poorly conceived, badly assembled and lacking lateral bracing - maybe Jay had a hand in it.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
making out that what cambridge analytica and vote leave/the trump campaign did with people's private data, without their consent, is 'appealing via rhetoric' is very dishonest and shabby stuff.

you appeal to people through classical rhetoric using argument, persuasion, rational debate. you don't take their data illegally, without their knowing, identify their psychological 'triggers', and then pump their news feed's ad space full of inflammatory adverts. that's not 'rhetoric', dilbert. that's not the art of political persuasion.

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,871|5585|USA

I'd add that if executing troublemakers solved war and crime and was an effective deterrent, the world would have been at peace for millennia.

We do have a long and sordid history of national and familial blood feuds though.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
Yes the marketing was top notch, but it still came down to rhetoric getting people to vote for Farage and Trump's visions.

I still think Trump getting elected was unexpected for him, right to the end he was fucking around seeing how far he could push people.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
you say rhetoric, we say 'illegally acquired private data used in advertising campaigns that have been found culpably dishonest'.

https://infacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/vl_syriairaq.png

https://infacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/vl_NHS350.png

https://infacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/vl_nhsmigrants.png

all of the above adverts were ran, with frequency, without consent, on 'target groups' on facebook, for months leading up to crucial democratic votes. they are all provably, almost laughably, dishonest and wrong. a cursory fact check will dismiss all of them as misinformation.

that's not 'top notch marketing'. that's using new technology that is simply ahead of current law and regulation to thwart that system.

combine that with immense amounts of wealth to fund it, literally breaking campaign financing laws, and you have a very sour picture.

but yes, great rhetoric. farage and trump are two chaps who got to where they are using nothing but fine rhetoric. surprised they don't have classics degrees, pip pip!

Its truly amazing what Farage, Trump etc have achieved with a bit of wooden populist rhetoric and ... nothing else.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-17 03:01:00)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

you say rhetoric, we say 'illegally acquired private data used in advertising campaigns that have been found culpably dishonest'.
Sure, you still have to change people's minds and anyone with a modicum of critical thinking can see lies for what they are.
Epstein didn't kill himself
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,871|5585|USA

I'm not convinced that being able to convince people with a modicum of critical thinking is what won Trump 2016.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
Well people were stupid already, they never had or gave up the ability to think critically.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
people don’t apply critical thinking to adverts that appear passively on their facebook feeds, though. they don’t realise they are in a space that is politically bought and sold. which is, again, part of the point i have been making time and time again about social media companies wanting to be everything but without the transparency and accountability of other media.

the amount of psychological tricks utilised by these companies is very powerful. facebook and companies like them have more data than the state about its subjects. your fears and anxieties, that which gets you clicking and interacting the most, the data knows. they crafted highly targeted ads at unsuspecting people that were DESIGNED TO BYPASS their ‘critical thinking’ faculties, dipshit.

cambridge analytica and the trump campaign team knew very well which sort of demographic or which type of psychological profile would ‘see red’ over issues like immigration. they hammered their news feeds with hundreds of millions of paid adverts.

the whole technical argot around these subjects, talking about ‘nudging’ people’s beliefs, is taken from behavioural psychology; that is, it’s pre- or ir-rational. there is no 'nudging' in classical rhetoric, surprisingly. it's not before 'peroration' and 'protreptic' in the rhetorical glossary.

sorry but your take on this is atrocious and bad. you’re wrong. ‘top notch marketing’ and ‘well, people can think for themselves’. i’m sorry but that’s just not good enough dilbert. marketeers have used psychology since the 1950s to appeal to people emotionally. the trade has an entire bag of unethical tricks to get people to buy things or feel a certain way. you talking about people ‘using critical thinking’ is laughably naive.

you’re not an unintelligent person. the problem is you’re just dishonest. you sympathise with the broad cause of these people so you don’t want to admit that they achieved their victories via illegal or questionable means. you just can’t admit it.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-17 03:24:08)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,717|4919|eXtreme to the maX
They used lies and psychology, people have been aware that politicians are dishonest and manipulative for a little while, none of this is new, a competent human being would have seen through it.

People have been suckered in by facebook etc, its as if they're on holiday in a safe zone and all rationality goes out of the window.

However you look at its still just rhetoric/persuasion, whatever you want to call it and people are in fact ready to die for it.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+383|2265
'to induce to believe by appealing to reason or understanding; convince: "to persuade the judge of the prisoner's innocence."'

no, what they've been doing has not been 'persuasion'. persuasion implies the art of rhetoric and the exercise of reason.

when you get to the level of behaviour, playing on emotions and instinctual responses, you're talking about manipulation.

misinformation, illegal and vast networks of shady funding, and manipulating public opinion. this is pretty usual stuff for populists.

'top notch marketing campaign'. lmao. i mean fucking really. no regular brand or company can go on tv or put an advert in a newspaper that is 100% flagrant lies. politically funded adverts on television have to announce very clearly who funded them and declare themselves as political adverts as-such. none of that on side-bar facebook banners: no transparency, no accountability, no declaration of who paid for the advert and on behalf of which agenda. funny, isn’t it?

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-17 07:28:48)

Larssen
Member
+57|701
The point is though that while it was all deceitful the far right appeared far more adept and succesful in moving with the times while the left is still focused on publishing 5000 word 'long reads' articles in the guardian.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-01-17 08:20:39)

uziq
Member
+383|2265
oh so i guess that makes illegal behaviour okay.

to the victor the spoils!

also 'the left' and the guardian. does not compute.

i see little to celebrate in unscrupulous monied interests using technology, acquiring private data illegally, and lying their way to success. that's a bastardization of the democratic process and a serious threat to democracy. but i guess accountable democracy is not really the main interest of a euro-crat.

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