SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3730

Larssen wrote:

If you can't bring yourself to question how and why things escalated as they did and instead keep focusing on your enemy driven narrative, good luck to ya. I did not at any point somehow  absolve or deflect from the fact that those who stormed the capitol were incredibly wrong headed, or that Trump is a hate inciting asswipe. But really, only now, at the end of his term, you want to use this immediate moment to grandstand on the line of 'unacceptable behaviour'? That line had already been crossed a thousand times and yesterday was only the culmination of years of gross negligence, willful political manipulation and ignorance of structural faults in politics, the bureaucracy and society at large.

You can go and demand the republican party distances itself from Trump, or that it caves in on itself whatever. But perhaps more importantly analyse and address the issues that led to this, of which the lacklustre security on the day itself is certainly one. Of which the powers of the presidency and his administration over the country are another. Of which the (social) media landscape and its non existant regulation is a third. I can go on.

But no sure let's come together to condemn first, foremost and only the baboon-esque congregation and the specific variants of insanity within its ideological mixture. And anyone who instead prefers to emphasise other issues as more important must be an apologist, fascist-loving, white supremacist! Yet again our image of the enemy is more important than all of the more concrete, systemic causes for the situation at hand that policy can address. No, let's push to rage over right wing extremism only - surely that is enough.
The democrats have enacted in the near past and still today promote policies that would alleviate the "economic anxiety" that Trump supporters use as a shield for their poor behavior. The democrats reward for it is a expulsion out of office by the right wingers who organized against such economic reforms. And once democrats began to organize to push back against Trump, they get smeared as satanist and pedophiles and have their lives endangered.

What more should democrats do at this point? The Americans here have been dealing with these people our entire lives and know that they are as football brained as people outside the country think. If you have some secret to dealing with them, please let me know.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3463
i seriously think the trumpers and militias, proud boys, white supremacists etc. have been treated like overgrown children for the last few years. the tone of discourse around them is basically tolerant, as if they are amiable babies. all this when all the evidence to the contrary suggests that they are increasingly organized, increasingly violent, increasingly ambitious and all too aware of their political goals and tactics. there have been so many stories this year about proud boys or the boogaloo movement, discussing them as if they're a bit of a joke. meanwhile the FBI are intercepting kidnapping and terrorist plots.

yesterday a bunch of 'revolutionaries' were treated like adults for once. their actions had consequences. and suddenly it's a great shocking outrage that citizens can be treated this way by the authorities, etc? lol what? these people have been enabled, forgiven and encouraged everything by the president for most of his presidency. car-attackers and outright racists called 'very fine people'. even after yesterday he proclaimed in a video address 'we love you', to people who just ransacked the fucking nation's capitol.

enough. these people have the psychology of spoiled children. even to meet resistance or stern imprecation is a strange and discomfiting experience to them. it's like a child that stops brawling and throwing a tantrum, shocked into silence by the first slap.

you can only begin building political bridges and conducting good liberal-democratic process when everyone sat at the table agrees to behave like adults.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-07 09:28:43)

pirana6
Go Cougs!
+682|6302|Washington St.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

More news from yesterday: Trump people took an American flag flying from the building and three it off a balcony. They then tried to replace it with a Trump flag.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021 … rump-flag/

Why do they hate the flag?
Holy fuck, am I seriously reading Breitbart comments that are saying the people last night invading the capitol are crazy trump supporters?

Alexa, what's the current weather in hell?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3730

pirana6 wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

More news from yesterday: Trump people took an American flag flying from the building and three it off a balcony. They then tried to replace it with a Trump flag.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021 … rump-flag/

Why do they hate the flag?
Holy fuck, am I seriously reading Breitbart comments that are saying the people last night invading the capitol are crazy trump supporters?

Alexa, what's the current weather in hell?
Liberals have been invading the comment section there ever since the end of the election in order to troll crestfallen Trump supporters.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+682|6302|Washington St.
Ah okay, I try to stay clear of Bbart as much as possible. That makes more sense.

And I won't get into theories why, but it's about time.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6643|949

Larssen is hand-wringing over police brutality, meanwhile NATO allies are questioning whether or not the federal agencies responsible for security around the Capitol (and Capital) were complicit.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a … ent=topbar

Aren't you a security consultant of some sort, sir?
Larssen
Member
+99|1898

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Larssen wrote:

If you can't bring yourself to question how and why things escalated as they did and instead keep focusing on your enemy driven narrative, good luck to ya. I did not at any point somehow  absolve or deflect from the fact that those who stormed the capitol were incredibly wrong headed, or that Trump is a hate inciting asswipe. But really, only now, at the end of his term, you want to use this immediate moment to grandstand on the line of 'unacceptable behaviour'? That line had already been crossed a thousand times and yesterday was only the culmination of years of gross negligence, willful political manipulation and ignorance of structural faults in politics, the bureaucracy and society at large.

You can go and demand the republican party distances itself from Trump, or that it caves in on itself whatever. But perhaps more importantly analyse and address the issues that led to this, of which the lacklustre security on the day itself is certainly one. Of which the powers of the presidency and his administration over the country are another. Of which the (social) media landscape and its non existant regulation is a third. I can go on.

But no sure let's come together to condemn first, foremost and only the baboon-esque congregation and the specific variants of insanity within its ideological mixture. And anyone who instead prefers to emphasise other issues as more important must be an apologist, fascist-loving, white supremacist! Yet again our image of the enemy is more important than all of the more concrete, systemic causes for the situation at hand that policy can address. No, let's push to rage over right wing extremism only - surely that is enough.
The democrats have enacted in the near past and still today promote policies that would alleviate the "economic anxiety" that Trump supporters use as a shield for their poor behavior. The democrats reward for it is a expulsion out of office by the right wingers who organized against such economic reforms. And once democrats began to organize to push back against Trump, they get smeared as satanist and pedophiles and have their lives endangered.

What more should democrats do at this point? The Americans here have been dealing with these people our entire lives and know that they are as football brained as people outside the country think. If you have some secret to dealing with them, please let me know.
In 13 days democrats will control the presidency and the HoR. Plenty of room to maneouver for necessary changes that can only be initiated at the political level. If they fail to do so, by for example implementing more stringent background checks for presidents and bind him/her legally in political appointments to avoid nepotism (two but small examples), then I'd reconsider their faultless good nature or intelligence vs their evil twin.

Of course, the republicans have gone off the deep end completely, and the last 4 years have been a sorry state of affairs because of it. Trump demonstrated for one that the presidency and the incumbent administration are not subjected to clear enough checks and balances, or none at all. Rectifying that situation through more control in the hands of political houses, career civil servants, or the legal system is necessary and would as a positive consequence probably also necessitate more cross party cooperation, reducing divisiveness.
Larssen
Member
+99|1898

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Larssen is hand-wringing over police brutality, meanwhile NATO allies are questioning whether or not the federal agencies responsible for security around the Capitol (and Capital) were complicit.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a … ent=topbar

Aren't you a security consultant of some sort, sir?
Yes because I must be up to date with any and all things NATO figures out. You have any idea how enormous the field of security is? Or how many different types of security crises there are that require full time attention?

Hand wringing about police brutality give me a fucking break. I'm out.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3730
Anyway, this season premiere of America was a good show. Really beat the midweek slump.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3463
er that's exactly what you've been doing. you think this coup attempt is an opportunity for cross-party denouncing of ... the fact one person got shot? jesus christ that take is so tepid it belongs in a pot noodle.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6695|United States of America
Another worrying thought to me is that the political winds would have been different had there been a Republican house majority. With that, they could've rejected the electoral votes from their alleged fraudulent states and completely succeeded in stealing the election for Trump. Mitt Romney may have still opposed it and Susan Collins would be concerned again, but they could have secured a "legal" victory.

I guarantee protests against that would not have been met with kid gloves.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6786|Moscow, Russia
https://memegenerator.net/img/images/16246494.jpg
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6643|949

Larssen wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Larssen is hand-wringing over police brutality, meanwhile NATO allies are questioning whether or not the federal agencies responsible for security around the Capitol (and Capital) were complicit.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a … ent=topbar

Aren't you a security consultant of some sort, sir?
Yes because I must be up to date with any and all things NATO figures out. You have any idea how enormous the field of security is? Or how many different types of security crises there are that require full time attention?

Hand wringing about police brutality give me a fucking break. I'm out.
I think it's a lack of perspective on your part, or maybe a willingness to put forth a criticism of "both sides" instead of plainly looking at what happened.

You were quick to dismiss BLM in various ways for various reasons because you didn't understand the enormity of the situation, and you changed your tone and view with regards to that after understanding more of the situation and the background that led to the protests over the summer. That's you demonstrating the ability to critically analyze a situation and modify your own views in light of new knowledge. That's a Good Thing. But then you follow that up by shooting from the hip again. That's NOT a Good Thing.

You'll notice I don't delve too much into the Brexit arguments here, bc I have no fucking clue about the nuances, political economy, factional differences, etc. and I've never cared enough to educate myself. If I were to wade into that discussion with a simplistic synopsis and try to prescribe blame or point fingers, I'd be told I'm ignorant, maybe less aggressively than you have been told here.

The security consultant bit was really just a little dig because I thought it was funny to read that article this morning and contrast it with your statements here. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence or capabilities in whatever it is you do.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3730
It's weird going a day without hearing anything from Trump Twitter. I am interested in hearing what he has to say.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3730
This whole thing is the democrats fault for being the political party of gay people and women. If only democrats have respected and acknowledged the primacy of men who drink beer and watch football.
https://dm0qx8t0i9gc9.cloudfront.net/watermarks/image/rDtN98Qoishumwih/storyblocks-front-view-of-three-men-watching-american-football_rvfwEyZt9z_SB_PM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6783|PNW

They totally look like yuppies in that stock photo.
lil_droo
Member
+19|1506
that one guy with the face paint and viking horns thing looked kinda cool can't lie but that was retarded for trump supporters to do. now they legit can't complain about what BLM/antifa did over the summer without being hypocrites although they didn't cause nearly as much damage as BLM/antifa or receive the same level of encouragement (except from trump and other far right people cause most mainstream conservatives condemned it)

rioters/protestors in general are a special kind of retarded though whether it's leftist or right wing shit. risking a criminal record and jail and injuries etc just to loot shit or break into buildings cause you thought it would be cool at the time
gang shit
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6695|United States of America
Comparisons of dollar amounts of damage of extent of buildings burned seems an odd comparison between opportunists using protests against police brutality to nick some swag and/or do some destructive shit and a mob encouraged by political figures to disrupt government proceedings that seem unfavorable to said politician. My position from the summer that people's lives are more important than property is still firmly held, but I have no problem squaring that with the lady who was killed yesterday.

If the group was able to reach Congresspeople, what do we suppose would have happened to demonized figures like Nancy Pelosi, the Squad, or recently Mike Pence (what with the "Hang Mike Pence" chanting that was occurring)? I'm not even confident the known conservatives who are playing with fire would be safe. The mob wasn't formed organically, but it grew and its actions were once it got rolling. There's no telling how far these people would have gone.

If we're allegedly a civilized society, I don't think we can conflate a Target being looted during unrest with the seat of federal government being thronged by angry citizens and their ill-founded beliefs. One is a much bigger problem.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6748|Oxferd Ohire
so you just lump rioting and protesting in the same group huh drooz

Last edited by RTHKI (2021-01-07 14:28:15)

https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6783|PNW

Shahter wrote:

Putin is the golden boy of progressive democracy himself, isn't he. Haven't you said you didn't care for Putin, and that you were a true communist or whatever? Why are you posting Putin reaction memes.

RTHKI wrote:

so you just lump rioting and protesting in the same group huh drooz
But it's still amazing how often this needs to be explained. Peaceful protesters shouldn't have to worry about sustaining permanent injury and an arrest record. It's problematic, in a country with freedom of demonstration, speech, etc., that this is a thing.

Police get annoyed when people say one bad apple spoils the bunch. Yet here they are, one hint of a rioter and suddenly everyone with their mocha and sign, not hurting anyone, is fair game. Because they might turn into rioters. Or association by proximity.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6117|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

like i can’t even imagine a situation in which i would be more likely to invite getting shot than if i rampaged through the houses of parliament or buckingham palace shouting about a revolution. these people are not innocent bystanders or poor little lost lambs. they incited violence and criminal action.
Except Americans are taught from age 0 that violent insurrection and revolution are what makes them and america great, overthrowing a tyrannical govt is enshrined in their constitution.
Should the capitol hill police really have opened fire on them when the rioters are fulfilling their 'patriotic duty' as they see it? Hard to say.

Funny that you went on and on about the rights of BLM rioters to loot burn and defile, comparing it to Roman politics and thought it was all great.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3730
Let the record show that I have maintained the consistent position that both sides, all the sides, occasionally put on a good show.
https://i.imgur.com/aKds6XA.gif?noredirect
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6117|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i seriously think the trumpers and militias, proud boys, white supremacists etc. have been treated like overgrown children for the last few years. the tone of discourse around them is basically tolerant, as if they are amiable babies. all this when all the evidence to the contrary suggests that they are increasingly organized, increasingly violent, increasingly ambitious and all too aware of their political goals and tactics. there have been so many stories this year about proud boys or the boogaloo movement, discussing them as if they're a bit of a joke. meanwhile the FBI are intercepting kidnapping and terrorist plots.
Same argument for the black racist communists.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6643|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Let the record show that I have maintained the consistent position that both sides, all the sides, occasionally put on a good show.
https://i.imgur.com/aKds6XA.gif?noredirect
Yeah because at the end of the day, with all your education and ability to reason and locate nuance, you'd still rather American politics be more like Game of Thrones than anything resembling reality. That's one large serving of privilege, with a scoop of laziness on the side. Mangia!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6783|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

like i can’t even imagine a situation in which i would be more likely to invite getting shot than if i rampaged through the houses of parliament or buckingham palace shouting about a revolution. these people are not innocent bystanders or poor little lost lambs. they incited violence and criminal action.
Except Americans are taught from age 0 that violent insurrection and revolution are what makes them and america great, overthrowing a tyrannical govt is enshrined in their constitution.
Should the capitol hill police really have opened fire on them when the rioters are fulfilling their 'patriotic duty' as they see it? Hard to say.

Funny that you went on and on about the rights of BLM rioters to loot burn and defile, comparing it to Roman politics and thought it was all great.
Shut up, you don't know anything about Americans. Ask Macbeth how much his students give a crap about American history.

add'ly when has uziq ever went on about the rights of blm rioters to loot, burn and defile? IIRC he has said, on multiple occasions, that stuff like toppling statues is a predictable and understandable outcome, but does not condone it. Yet you keep this samey crap alive by constantly circling back to it.

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