Uzique's normally quite collected, but the surest way to get him riled up is when we philistines can't appreciate the layers upon layers of artistry in the beeps he likes.
No one's saying "Oh, you call this E-lec-tron-ic mu-zik?" I can be aware of a genre and not get the appeal.
do you really think i’ve been posting music in this thread for 10 years and losing my temper every time a mid-western hayseed like you queues up to say you ‘dudn’t like it’?
i mean it’s more likely that i’m trolling you, if anything. i think i can keep my composure around 3 people who don’t like the same music as me.
Clearly, because your reading comprehension drops immensely when that happens. I didn't even say I didn't like it. I said that I don't get the appeal from what is presented. No shit people like different music. It's why I'm as perplexed by your retorts in this thread as I am to Macbeths bisexual queries.
I'm sure thought goes into the music. You can find and conjure an intellectual defence for almost any type of music for that matter. It doesn't make it any easier to listen to - especially if it's strongly rooted in a type of sound that has been done to death since the 70s/80s. Heavy synth use just reminds me of the pop and style of a different era and not in a good way. It's generally an ugly sound and a difficult one to really do well. One of the few artists who deploys retroish 80s vibes like that I can enjoy sometimes is Kavinsky (though only using digital equipment, so no actual synths).
In the linked stuff I find the 'let's start from nothing and add another beep layer every 20 seconds' a particularly boring and predictive progression. In a way it feels rigid and unimaginative. The choices in which also are more off putting than pleasing, as though someone sat in front of fruityloops for the first time and kept adding random layers to his initial simplistic beat.
I see the crystal raindrops fall And the beauty of it all Is when the sun comes shining through To make those rainbows in my mind When I think of you sometime And I wanna spend some time with you ... We look for love, no time for tears Wasted water's all that is And it don't make no flowers grow Good things might come to those who wait Not for those who wait too late We gotta go for all we know ... I hear the crystal raindrops fall On the window down the hall And it becomes the morning dew And darling when the morning comes And I see the morning sun I wanna be the one with you
I'm sure thought goes into the music. You can find and conjure an intellectual defence for almost any type of music for that matter. It doesn't make it any easier to listen to - especially if it's strongly rooted in a type of sound that has been done to death since the 70s/80s. Heavy synth use just reminds me of the pop and style of a different era and not in a good way. It's generally an ugly sound and a difficult one to really do well. One of the few artists who deploys retroish 80s vibes like that I can enjoy sometimes is Kavinsky (though only using digital equipment, so no actual synths).
In the linked stuff I find the 'let's start from nothing and add another beep layer every 20 seconds' a particularly boring and predictive progression. In a way it feels rigid and unimaginative. The choices in which also are more off putting than pleasing, as though someone sat in front of fruityloops for the first time and kept adding random layers to his initial simplistic beat.
my god you are just one of the most norm core people i have ever met in my life. tv dramas and kavinsky are 'quite good actually'.
kavinsky is a digital pastiche. he is much nearer to fruity loops than any of the stuff i've linked.
all the stuff i linked above is made with analogue outboard gear. no laptops or digital processing. it's an old spirit, of course, but then again don't you listen to coldplay and shit? what, is that reinventing the wheel too or something? almost all currently popular forms of music are rooted in the 70s/80s, dipshit, band music and instrumental music especially.
but i guess getting your music taste from the soundtrack of popular movies like Drive enables you to make sweeping critiques such as 'the 80s have quite an ugly sound and a difficult one to do really well'. i bet! you tell 'em, david byrne!
lmao you are the GAP of culture.
'let's start from nothing and add another beep layer every 20 seconds' a particularly boring and predictive progression.
you're just describing phrasing. this is dance music, it is made to be looped and played sequentially with other dance records, you know, as in long sets or listening sessions. phrasing is how this music is structured. you add things, you subtract things, you change things, you shift a key, you introduce a breakdown, etc. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Musical_phrasing
i listen to much more avant-garde and 'new' musics, but somehow i doubt you're interested in the latest in free improv jazz, gamelan ensemble, or computer music. you'd rather sit back listening to coldplay and kavinsky and lecturing on 'originality'.
So we're pushing boundaries now by going back to full analog and revisting 'the latest' in free improv jazz? Nah. If we're on jazz, someone like robert glasper is doing a much better job keeping it relevant and modernising it.
Being called a normie by you means nothing really. I'd even consider it a compliment from where you're standing
In the linked stuff I find the 'let's start from nothing and add another beep layer every 20 seconds' a particularly boring and predictive progression. In a way it feels rigid and unimaginative. The choices in which also are more off putting than pleasing, as though someone sat in front of fruityloops for the first time and kept adding random layers to his initial simplistic beat.
If you listen to any genre long enough things can sometimes become predictable, especially with the kind of music that gets truncated for broadcast. If you have a problem with music ramping up that's a whole lot of possible listening out the window.
the necks are widely considered the best performing jazz act in the world at the moment. by jazz critics. robert glasper is for college normies like yourself.
also, LMAO at you talking about 'analogue fetishism' being a lame excuse for genuine innovation, and then you link a glasper song filmed in some retrograde VHS effect. hahahahaha.
this is a bit like you saying 'kendrick lamar is the greatest poet and lyricist of his generation'. i mean, it's quaint, but some people dig a little deeper. what’s glasper’s massive contribution? ‘jazz is the bedrock of hip hop?’ wow bro, it’s almost like the first 20 years of this century haven’t been defined by madlib and j dilla ... you know, jazz-sampling fucking hip hop producers!
pushing boundaries has nothing to do with being analogue or being improv. my point was that producers like the above in the 'underground', or who form local scenes in places like Detroit or dallas, are the ones who get leeched from by your kavinskys or your kanye west's for their beats. they set-up the scenes which then become 'mainstreamed' and appropriated by some star 'big name' producer. for you to say that they're 'sitting down in front of fruity loops and making simplistic crap' is just funny. it's the other way around: these guys get listened to by your frank oceans or your kanye wests or your drakes and it ends up in the mainstream.
here is a song from a bristol producer, a lynchpin of the 'scene' in the city, who owns and runs a record label, runs a weekly night at one of our venues, etc.
it's simplistic crap, right? because it's a dance song, it is structured in loops and repetition which change slowly; elements are added bit-by-bit. no sudden changes or structural breaks (it would make it impossible to mix into another song; tracks have been structured this way since 1970s disco, larssen).
but then it ends up on a drake release and normies like yourself start talking about how 'forward looking' drake's beats are, or whatever the fuck, bumping it in your beats by dre headphones whilst doing lifts at the gym. lol.
kamasi washington is more interesting than robert glasper.
Washington, glasper and the others collaborate on several songs and albums...
Behind drake pulling that stuff there's producers like max martin, who's a musical genius and multi instrumentalist in his own right. It's like this leftover from your days of extreme teen angst that you still disparage pop music for being popular. Get a grip, there's plenty artists there bringing new stuff to the table. Yes, like Kendrick - good kid maad city and tpab are undeniable masterpieces.
i like pop music. i listen to some of it - though not all. i am criticizing your view that these producers are 'simplistic' because they are making repetitive, loopy beats. actually, they are the real technicians who stake out these genres, invent sounds, develop organic ground-up scenes, etc. they are the pioneers. the sounds then end up in mainstream-pop music, bowdlerized by the sort of artists you listen to. dubstep and EDM are notable examples from the last decade.
insulting musicians with things like 'it sounds like they sat in front of fruityloops' whilst in the same breath talking about how great kavinsky is and all of his generic youtube-synthwave followers, is just nonsensical. that's precisely the sort of producer who do everything on a laptop and normally slap together basic presets on programs like fruityloops.
it would help if you knew what you were talking about, but basically you seem to get your taste from the most predictable, reception-heavy channels of distribution. you think you have some nuanced or complex understanding of a scene but really you're the equivalent of a casual listener being fed artists by a spotify or apple music algorithm. 'wow robert glasper is just so innovative, he's keeping jazz relevant'. he's good but he's really not. (what the hell do you know about the contemporary jazz scene?) again, i am not against mainstream musicians or pop music per se: but you flatter yourself and forgive your ignorance when you make pronouncements. you don't know anything about these genres.
Well something goes awfully wrong if it ends up sounding like he just sat in front of fruityloops no? Do I need to put myself through an intellectualised dissection of every tonal progression before I can or am allowed to voice an opinion on this stuff? It's drab. Even if I did spend the next few weeks digging into the intricacies of musical phrasing in this retro electro stuff I still wouldn't fucking like it. In comes uzique: 'Oh YoU JuSt DoN't UnDeRsTaNd!!' REEEEEEEEEEEE
No I'm sure all of rap is just hitting up youtube to listen to these three bald white dudes playing jazz for inspiration
what are you talking about? you don't have a clue what you are talking about. a song with a lead synth line from an extremely old, analogue synthesizer and a drumbeat very recognizably from a roland drum machine invented in the 1980s 'sounds like fruityloops'? lmao i mean where do you even start? do you listen to modular synth experiments and say 'meh, bleep bloop, sounds like fruityloops'? you simply do not know what you are talking about.
who cares where rappers get their inspiration from? as i just said, j dilla and madlib are two of the most influential producers in the last 25 years. period. they sampled jazz extensively. do you think rappers are only just discovering blue note records because of robert fucking glasper? do you think these guys are all waiting for producers to win a grammy like your normie self? lmao get A CLUE.
we’re talking about what is innovation in jazz and your argument is ‘rappers listen to this guy?’ jazz has existed for a long time without the need for rappers to sample it, my guy.
I literally posted a video about glasper talking about pete rock sampling amhad jamal for nas and also about j dilla. You're not listening to what he's saying - it's not about just using jazz in hiphop, glasper draws inspiration from j dilla's sampling and cutting IN hiphop for his own jazz. That's what he means with 'full circle'.
you also criticized pointless analogue fetishism and then posted a fake-VHS glasper video. lol.
why are you pretending he's the most important jazz musician today when he's talking about j dilla? you're not interested in jazz really, are you? you say 'oh yeah, this guy is really keeping jazz relevant' when what you mean is 'it's crossed into my path and coincides with my normie tastes'.
have you listened to anything from ECM records in the last 20 years? cutting in hip-hop influences is not exactly the most groundbreaking or interesting thing happening in the genre. lmao. as i said, kamasi washington is doing far more interesting things.
Those were two separate points? Besides, I do think people like Glasper and kamasi washington bring more 'newness' to the table in jazz than others, often inspired by what beatmakers do with their tech and reincorporating those themes back into the genre. Above all, people like it - and to make art last it needs popular appeal. Not to descend into an extreme niche under some false pretense that there is where the real art and future is made. That's some BS.
Also again as if all these rappers are listening to three middle aged bald white dudes for all their ideas and samples.
My brother is a jazz guitarist lol. Now I won't pretend association makes me knowledgeable but I do think it helps pick up on a thing or two.
what has an 'extreme niche' here? do you know what you are talking about in any of these discussions? you don't know anything about the jazz scene that the necks operate in and you sure as hell don't know anything about dance music, lmao.
you like musicians that win grammys. ok, fair enough. they're often very good. but you talk so disdainfully and dismissively of anything else as 'extreme niche'. my guy most of the cultural industry and creative work happens away from platinum-record-selling rappers and grammy-winning producers. you are a normie.
great your brother plays jazz guitar. my dad is a linesman for sheffield wednesday so i'm a professional footballer.
AGAIN, lmao, WHY THE FUCK does it matter if rappers aren't sampling 'three bald guys'? do you think the jazz world looks for its validation to fucking kendrick lamar? hahah. jesus fucking christ. it's like nothing gets your notice or deserves your attention until it becomes literally pop. jazz fans don't give a fuck about rap music! why would they? it's not the apex of 'relevant' culture. you are so cringe.
also to 'make art last' it doesn't need popular appeal. christ you are full of spurious half-informed arguments, aren't you?
some of the most famous films, novels, and albums of all time never had 'popular appeal'. you do know that like moby-dick was a miserable failure in its lifetime and for about 50 years after publication, right? how many people are reading the popular bestsellers of melville's day versus still reading moby-dick? i'll let you think about it.
the necks have been a band at the top of the jazz scene for 40 years. how long has kamasi washington been around? 2 albums and 5 years? okay, but i guess because they're doing 'groundbreaking things' with 'beatmakers and their tech' (whatever that means, lol, sampling and hip-hop production is 40 years old itself), that they'll be around forever. again, popular success and chart-topping ability =/= lasting artistic appeal. where have all the topselling pop artists of the 1990s gone? are you still listening to backstreet boys?
Avant garde improvisational jazz and underground retro 80s electro dance is not very niche, gotchu.
Of course musical cultures as a whole are relevant, people don't make progress in a vacuum - but there you go again snubbing your nose at pop for being pop. I suppose thundercat is irrelevant cos he wins grammys. Not a real innovative artist like those three middle aged bald white dudes.
I swear if you were into sculpting you'd find a way to call Michelangelo a derivative hack
thundercat and kamasi washington are good musicians, but you'd probably snub your nose at flying lotus back in the day and call it 'niche bleepy noise'. whoosh! over your head. the whole jazzy-improv-hip-hop-electronica thing kicked off with brainfeeder in LA about 15 years ago. now you think it's brilliant and 'the future of jazz' or some other portentous crap because of kendrick lamar. you don't even know the basic genealogy of these musics.
you know a few terms but you have no idea what you're talking about. could you tell me a song produced in fruityloops? go on. link me an example and explain to me how you know. or are you just using it as a vague term of disparagement because you actually know nothing about this music? go on, take a minute.
