Last edited by uziq (2020-11-12 13:12:23)
Latin America was brought up earlier. The U.S. overthrew many states in Latin America. Why haven't any of them reverted to 10th century Catholic theocracies? Why is it only Muslim countries that go through waves of religious fundamentalist violence? Latin Americans are just as poor as many places in the Middle East.uziq wrote:
i've never defended saudi arabia anywhere on this forum.
the only thing i've said in defense of iran is its middle-class and hopes of a secular culture fled to america, germany, etc. that was the fault of the US and UK. it seems a bit myopic to blame iran for illiberalism when the western powers literally toppled their best-hope for a liberal, self-elected leader (mossadegh).
India and Japan? Bollywood, J-Pop? I wouldn't want to be a Japanese woman on a train but at least I would be allowed outside without an escort.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
@mac
I'm not specifically defending Muslim Culture, it's just that constantly yammering on about the horrors of Muslim countries (which admittedly have progress to do to catch up) fighting culture fights that were definitely not skipped by the west is pot-kettle-black with a few decades of separation.
re: "unlike anywhere else," do you think women have it great in India? What about in Japan, where treatment of women is a visible problem in public transportation.
Last edited by uziq (2020-11-12 13:26:46)
Women still have more rights in those countries than they do in again all of the rest of the Islamic world. Religious minorities too.uziq wrote:
latin america has had lots of revolutionary and religious violence?
the catholic church has absolutely prosecuted a policy of deep civic penetration into latin american societies since the 1970s/80s. it's complexly tied up to the relations between a landed/ex-colonial class (protestants) and a catholic base (including evangelicals). the catholic church in this context is the retrenched, reactionary force, by the by.
guatemala? peru? chile? uruguay? religion has had a strong role to play in much of their recent violent histories.
Why are you being racist against the Japanese and Indians? Someone criticizes Islamic violence and you have to go put the Indians, Latin Americans, and Japanese down too?uziq wrote:
india has some of the highest rates of violence against women, including rape, of any democracy in the world. do not put hindus on a pedestal above muslims. that is just funny. the british empire has a long cultural memory of acts like suttee. perhaps best not to favourably compare a culture that used to burn wives alive on the funeral pyre of their husbands.
bollywood? a good example? lol. are you just saying that because you like looking at women gyrate, or something? bollywood's entire ideology is patriarchal to a t. every single story reinforces extremely traditional, and confining, gender roles. the heroic man who must claim the object of his desire! not to mention that the indians, who will watch 1,000 hours a year each of men and women dancing and singing and simulating love, get outraged and riot if you show a kiss on the screen.
gender relations in japan are so poor that they're voluntarily committing seppuku on their own race. life for women there is not good, neither in 'modern' corporate-career advancement nor in the traditional expectations for women.
i think every culture has a lot of work to do, and obviously i am in support of it. but everyone loves to queue up to shit on muslims as if it's a dark ages cult with the express and sole intention of imprisoning women.SuperJail Warden wrote:
Why are you being racist against the Japanese and Indians? Someone criticizes Islamic violence and you have to go put the Indians, Latin Americans, and Japanese down too?uziq wrote:
india has some of the highest rates of violence against women, including rape, of any democracy in the world. do not put hindus on a pedestal above muslims. that is just funny. the british empire has a long cultural memory of acts like suttee. perhaps best not to favourably compare a culture that used to burn wives alive on the funeral pyre of their husbands.
bollywood? a good example? lol. are you just saying that because you like looking at women gyrate, or something? bollywood's entire ideology is patriarchal to a t. every single story reinforces extremely traditional, and confining, gender roles. the heroic man who must claim the object of his desire! not to mention that the indians, who will watch 1,000 hours a year each of men and women dancing and singing and simulating love, get outraged and riot if you show a kiss on the screen.
gender relations in japan are so poor that they're voluntarily committing seppuku on their own race. life for women there is not good, neither in 'modern' corporate-career advancement nor in the traditional expectations for women.
Liberal racist. This is why liberals can't win Florida, and Texas.
It is the Muslims killing non-Muslims in any part of the world where they live in sufficient numbers and don't have total political control. Between China, the U.S., and India, you have nearly half the world population and also societies rocked by Islamic violence. Maybe Muslims wouldn't get so much negative focus if they weren't responsible for so much politically inspired violence in the world.uziq wrote:
i think every culture has a lot of work to do, and obviously i am in support of it. but everyone loves to queue up to shit on muslims as if it's a dark ages cult with the express and sole intention of imprisoning women.
Last edited by uziq (2020-11-12 13:49:52)
Lebanon, Burma, and India all have in common that they are fighting Islamic extremist That seems to be a common thread. Maybe the Muslims are the problem.uziq wrote:
christians kill non-christians in power struggles. for some reason you don't like admitting it and get all jokey and troll-face whenever it's mentioned. 'lovely maronites did nothing wrong'. okay, very mature take. that there is widespread violence on religious lines today even in places like southern mexico conveniently eludes you. nope, christians don't kill non-christians or indigenous people!
buddhists have been burning down villages, raping and systematically committing genocide against rohingya muslims in burma. a nationalist military junta asserting power and trying to make burma a pure buddhist state. you can see videos on the internet of buddhist monks contributing to lynching innocent muslims (the poorest people from the poorest province in the country, fyi), screaming 'you're not true burmese! death to non-burmese!'
hindus, encouraged by modi's ultra-nationalist ideology, have been having race riots in certain provinces of india. police and citizens alike go street-to-street beating muslims to death.
but ok. 'islam has a unique problem with violence'. another line taken straight from a cheetos-crumbed reddit post.
Last edited by uziq (2020-11-12 14:03:08)
Last edited by uziq (2020-11-12 14:11:26)
So why aren't black Americans committing incessant terrorism against the state? Native Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans? Those groups live more degraded lives than Muslims in western Europe. Why are European Muslims getting wrapped up in terrorism while black Americans might score a pair of sneakers from a store from time to time?uziq wrote:
i've spoken here before about the history of violence in islam. yes, jihad and suicide bombing were mobilized from the iranian revolution onwards. it was a new development in religious and sectarian violence, undoubtedly. other religions do not have an equivalent (catholics prefer to plant remote bombs and detonate them from a distance).
at the same time as the ayatollah of iran was licensing death-by-suicide as martyrdom, christians were massacring crowds of civilians, jewish paramilitaries and terror cells were active, catholics were blowing up shopping centres and hotels in the UK ... i could go on.
of course the form of their violence is different to other cultures. nobody is denying that. nobody is approving of suicide bombing or martyrdom, either.
the thing you miss out from your analysis is the main point: power dynamics. you want to make muslims a unique evil and uniquely worse because of their political violence, even when they are the weak and oppressed group in a given situation. it doesn't make any sense. if a military junta is committing genocide against a group, as in burma, and which is recognized by the international community as a genocide, your only reaction is to say 'yes but muslims have a unique form of political violence'. erm, ok? i guess using a conventional military to raze villages, rape women and murder children is a-OK because it's not a scary 'jihad'.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-11-12 14:20:28)
