Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115

uziq wrote:

you’ve got it all backwards i’m afraid. let me know how the qi channelling goes the next time you get toothache.
I’ll let you know.
uziq
Member
+475|2874
lighting a candle for shiva and ringing a gong for your elders also works particularly well for an abscessed tooth, i hear.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
Thanks for the tip.
uziq
Member
+475|2874
i really don’t assume that western medicine has it all figured out, and that ‘science is the key to everything’. but ideas like ‘body energy’ are just pseudoscience. what’s worse, they always try to present themselves in scientific or ‘credible’-sounding argot. if they’re so self-evidently true or otherwise beyond the reaches of science, what gives? why do they always try to establish themselves with a smidgeon of ‘rigour’ and ‘method’? how curious.

it’s basically a platitude to say that there are some lessons of folk wisdom that everyone could heed. of course there are. we’ve probably figured out in about 30,000 years of having a modern diet and digestive tract that you get out what you put in. eating healthy and living a balanced lifestyle are obviously advisable goals. do we need to cloak it in talk of ‘chi energy’ though? like for what benefit? this knowledge and wisdom can be presented in a secular, objective way. i don’t think there’s a scientist or doctor in the west who would disagree with the basic premises: it’s the fucking candles and incense and rhino horn and placing crystals on your ‘energy meridians’ that puts them off. and rightfully so.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
All of this folk medicine can in fact be brought into  the framework of modern medical understanding. The major impasse as you stated is the off-putting nature of borrowed religious ideas, new-age cults, etc. Physicians these days will generally recommend a whole grain/foods plant based diet. They won’t however be able to guide you on what kind of diet you specifically might need. Even nutritionists fall short here (from my poe). This is why diabetics are generally recommended a diet- which viewed from a macrobiotic lens- is contradictory and will not work to heal the condition. 

There is a guy in Massachusetts who claims he invented email, Shiva Ayyadurai who explains Ayurveda like an engineer would. Basically saying that that pranic system of medicine practiced in India can be easily demystified if you assess the body as an integrated system and not as separate parts. While the dynamism of mind-body is basically understood in modern medicine, treatments are still meted out targeting symptoms and not the underlying cause. Another example: having your gallbladder removed if you have gallstones. Only in serious cases where the gallbladder is badly infected is this necessary, otherwise a simple dietary regime can clear away the stones. A physician who’s work is bridging this gap in some ways is Gabor Maté. He doesn’t have anything to say about food really, but he calls out the contradictions in medical science and offers solutions.

Dr. Neil Barnard is a macrobiotic friend who is an acclaimed physician. Here’s a random video lecture of his you might find interesting.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2020-10-23 09:44:47)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5528|eXtreme to the maX
If Indian medicine worked this wouldn't be the case.

India’s total use of antibiotics more than doubled from 2000 to 2015, new research says, making the country the world’s biggest consumer of antibiotics and stoking fears of increasing antibiotic resistance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6192587/
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+475|2874


incredibly prescient, this. quite old now. from america's best living novelist imo.
uziq
Member
+475|2874

Superior Mind wrote:

Thanks for the tip.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg … tis-worse/

or are we just looking at it wrong? perhaps looking for scientific explanations is ‘too limited’ and ignorant?

much better to refer to about 100 foodstuffs as ‘nightshade’ vegetables because it shares an ominous eponym with a poison, belladonna, which has been used since antiquity!!!
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
As far as I know it’s the high acid content which can cause inflammation in the joints. Can’t read the full article without subscribing. Whether or not there’s sufficient evidence for this, I’ve seen it verified through others experiences and my own- at least in the highly acidic nature of those plants. This is why there exists the traditions of fire roasting eggplants and peppers, and the long stewing of tomatoes into marinara. Those cooking processes help to neutralize the acid.

Something like this only becomes an issue in the context of the modern diet which is one marked by extreme acidity.

The use of the term nightshade is derived from their belonging to the family solanaceae.

Some counselors even recommend enjoying nightshades in season these days. It’s only contraindicated when someone is unwell.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2020-10-30 01:06:49)

uziq
Member
+475|2874
‘regardless of the science, i’ve seen it with my own eyes’.

yeah that’s not how the universe works. regardless of the science, i swear i saw the blessèd madonna appear above the road to santiago de compostela as well. ‘bearing witness’ is not part of the scientific method.

i’ve never heard so much nonsense in my life as referring to a family of foods as ‘nightshade vegetables’ and acting like they’re all harmful because of its scary-sounding name. nothing quite encapsulates the scientific-sounding hokum of nutrition fads like that for me. it’s a meaningless term. it’s like introducing your close friend to someone as a hominid. technically correct but errrr ok.

if ‘high acid content’ causes inflammation in the system, why are so many fruits lauded for their anti-inflammatory properties? pineapple, cherry and lemon all reduce inflammation.

this whole talk about ‘body acidity’ and ‘alkalising your body’ normally circulates with chiropractors and homeopaths, not serious doctors. if you have acidosis or your body-blood pH wavers very far from its standard base, you are having a medical emergency or have a serious medical condition. roasting eggplant is not it.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-30 02:06:33)

Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
Have you never had indigestion?

Lemon will be anti-inflammatory or alkalizing if taken in a small dose, ie lemon in your water. If you eat a dozen lemons or drink a cup of lemon juice you’re going to be be burning.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2020-10-30 02:29:22)

uziq
Member
+475|2874
have you been to med school? indigestion is not a sign that your 'body acidity' is changing.

if your intake of food seriously affects the acidity of your blood or body, you have a serious metabolic disorder. something is awry.

how do you understand digestion and metabolism, exactly? 'acidic foods inflame your joints' is a bit of a catch-all. some of these foods are staple parts of national diets. what, have the italians all been fighting chronic arthritis for centuries, or something? why has nobody ever told them to give nightshade vegetables a rest! a body that is correctly functioning will be metabolizing those acidic foods into alkaloids, not going into shutdown and developing chronic medical conditions.

who the hell eats a dozen lemons? that's like saying 'if you drink 30 pints of water you will get hydrocephalus and go into a medical emergency'. anything is toxic or will harm your health in a high enough quantity. if 'acidic foods' eaten in regular portion sizes/doses have anti-inflammatory properties, doesn't that scotch your over-neat generalization about nightshade vegetables all ruining your joints? how many fucking raw tomatoes are your friends eating, my guy?

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-30 02:39:02)

Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
I’ve not been to medical school. But here’s my take: joint inflammation and other autoimmune symptoms are a response to the presence of stress hormones in the blood. Foods which are highly acidic, if eaten constantly and not prepared correctly to neutralize them create deterioration and inflammation in the GI tract- indigestion, ulcers- as well as mineral leeching from the bones and teeth. This puts the body under physical stress and causes stress hormones to be secreted.  The same thing happens from being stressed out emotionally or physically. The constant surges of these hormones like adrenaline and cortisol wear out the endocrine system eventually leading to systemic/organ failures throughout the body and/or auto-immune disorders.

Italians have been eating tomatoes since the 1500s and again, traditionally cooking them for hours in sauce or fire roasting them.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2020-10-30 02:43:44)

uziq
Member
+475|2874
tomatoes become more acidic the longer you cook them, not less. have you never made a pasta sauce before?

there is not such a direct link between the pH of the food you eat and the acidity of your body, let alone joint inflammation. the human digestive system and metabolism actually breaks down acidic fruits like lemon and cherry very quickly into alkaloids. hence their anti-inflammatory properties.

cooking foods increases the caloric gain, as well as obviously making it more palatable and digestible. cultures haven't been cooking things for centuries because of 'body acidity', my guy.
uziq
Member
+475|2874
as for your 'stress hormone' thesis, yes, i have a lot of time for that. stress is undeniably one of the greatest attritional diseases of the western world. it wears us down and has very real physical consequences, including how well we can digest food and nutrition. but i would probably look to other lifestyle factors before i started banning someone from eating 'nightshade vegetables'.

i do not know that acidic foods cause 'stress'. i see very little physiological evidence of that. again, this 'body acidity' stuff tends to very quickly become a metaphysical or metaphorical system, a bit like yin and yang. hence why chiropractors and homeopaths and 'qi merchants' love to latch onto it. the body's pH is not some scale between the things you put in your mouth and the base level of your system. it doesn't work like that. eating a potato does not cause stress.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-30 02:53:14)

Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
Try eating a dozen raw plum tomatoes and see how you feel vs cooking them down with salt and some other vegetables.

Cooking has always been about making foods more easily digestible and their nutrients more bio-available- which at first presents itself as making it taste better.

If you don’t properly prepares grains, beans, nuts and seeds, that is by soaking them and/or cooking them appropriately, you ingest acids in the seeds which will cause health problems after years. These acidic enzymes are dismantled when you soak the seed and the process of germination begins.

Everyone’s diet is relative to themselves. For some people potatoes are completely harmless, for others it exacerbates a dysfunction- notably diabetes.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2020-10-30 03:01:50)

uziq
Member
+475|2874
once again, indigestion is not your body 'becoming acidic'. that's not how it works my guy. eating a huge portion of any raw, uncooked vegetable is likely going to give you stomach pain and indigestion. it's not acids overtaking your body and rushing to your joints!

you seem to struggle with basic science and rely on anecdote and guesswork observation. it's this weird pseudo-scientific grey area that bothers me. you fad nutritionists use scientific-sounding scary terms like 'the nightshade family' but then don't understand basic digestion or metabolism.

and yes, nobody is denying that people with serious metabolic disorders are going to have to be very mindful of what they eat. but that's not the argument that nutritionists are making, is it? a diabetic will go into a coma and die over simple dietary oversight. it's not the same thing. if your metabolic system is functioning properly, eating lemons or potatoes is not going to give you 'acid stress-related inflammation'. that's NOT how it works.

there is no direct mechanism between the acidity of the food and inflammatory disorders. do you think gout is caused by the humble eggplant? i really cannot understand this fear of nightshade vegetables.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-30 03:28:35)

Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
Gout is diet related obviously. Uric acid build up
as a consequence of eating too much offal or from damaging your kidneys with alcohol.

You seem to be selectively reading the content of my posts. Why is it so hard to image the humble eggplant could be bad for certain conditions? Besides fire roasting, eggplant is also traditionally soaked or boiled in salt water before moving on to a second preparation. Look at this water and see if it seems palatable.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2020-10-30 03:38:48)

uziq
Member
+475|2874
yes, but where does the uric acid come from? it's endogenous! not from eating 'acid pH foods'.

you are continually changing the goalposts of your claims. 'some foods can be harmful for certain conditions'. well, no shit! but claiming that 'nightshade family' vegetables, some of the most commonly eaten staple foods on the entire fucking planet, lead to 'joint inflammation' because of their 'acidity' is illiterate claptrap. many 'acidic' foods are very quickly metabolized into their alkaloids that have ANTI-inflammatory properties. it's like you don't understand what happens to food in the stomach at all.

your whole discussion of 'body acidity' is, like the mainstream hokum practitioners who spout it, confused. are acids good? bad? alkaloids? this one is good, but this one is bad? you're viewing it as this yin-yang scale where the pH of what you put in has some measurable pH effect on your body. it's nowhere near that simple a mechanism and depends upon so many factors.

about the best advice your school of thought breaks down to is 'everything in moderation'. well, okay, the epicureans were saying that in 300 BCE back when everyone thought the world was composed of four elements. the rest of your stuff about the discussions of 'acidity' are nonsense. 'italians cook tomatoes to neutralize the harmful effects of acid pH food'. er, the cooking reaction makes tomatoes MORE acidic, not less. nevermind the fact that nightshade vegetables also contain plenty of useful (and harmful) ALKALOIDS. tomatine? you do realize that this ultra-scary and potentially harmful nightshade chemical, solasonine, is an ALKALOID, right? but tell me more how acid-y foods cause stress and inflammation. you have no grasp of the metabolic mechanisms at work at all. it's total guesswork.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6115
I never said the uric acid came from the food. It’s the metabolic response to those foods. Which is in line with what I explained above about foods creating stress responses that disturb the function of the body, in this case the kidneys not being able to function properly.
uziq
Member
+475|2874
it's all so vague, i'm sorry. so is eating acidic foods bad or not? because many acidic foods are quickly broken down into useful alkaloids that have anti-inflammatory responses.

acidic foods do not cause stress. there is zero evidence linking intake of food to the release of stress hormone. zero. there is zero evidence linking the acidity or pH of food to a 'stress response'. lemons might make you screw your face up but they're not flooding your body with stress hormones. many foods do, in fact, combat stress. that's why people who are stressed or depressed over-eat so much. it releases endorphins. many foods actually reduce the level of cortisol and adrenaline in your body. the presence of an acidic food in your stomach is not going to make you stressed. the stomach is already full of acid, which may surprise you. if any food you eat goes on to seriously affect the pH of your blood or body, and i mean to within like .5 points of pH, you have a serious metabolic medical crisis on your hands. 'body acidity' theses are very spurious. for your body to be seriously affected by the acidity or alkalinity of what you eat, homeostasis would effectively have to be on pause.

people do not cook acidic foods to make them less acidic, either. which is just as well, because the pH of the food you eat does not have a direct mechanism on the pH of your body. that's not how digestion or metabolism works. and cooking some acidic foods will only increase their acidity, which rather turns your entire thesis on its head in direct contradiction.

the link between solasonine, an alkaloid, and inflammation, is not at all clear. and yet nutritionists all over the internet and in the media are now banging on about this fashionable 'nightshade family' of vegetables that should be avoided if you want to live forever. nutrition follows cod-science like this and fads all the time. no scientific basis for it, i'm afraid. still unsure how any of this ties into the 'acidity' or 'stress' thing.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-30 06:55:45)

RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,726|6159|Oxferd Ohire
Several books I had on hold no longer offer kindle versions. Tempting to go back to some physical books and the high seas for digital.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+589|3142
Buying digital books is very cucked. You are supposed to buy and display the books on shelves after you finish instead of deleting files to make space on your Kindle.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+475|2874
haha.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,726|6159|Oxferd Ohire
I didn't mention buying digital books mac.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png

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