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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+385|2444

uziq wrote:

i wouldn't say you're really mistaken, there is indeed a very vocal minority who spend a lot of effort getting very mad about that.

the far-right in places like poland is forever going on about the ottomans, blah blah. there's that residual underlayer of 'crusader' imagery and 'clash of civilizations' rhetoric, as if vienna might fall if erdogan's turkey accedes to the economic union.

but yeah, i would say in general that turkish people are settled widely all over europe and aren't perceived as like a dangerous or radical-extremist 'other'. most of the islamic fundamentalists that cause trouble in the west are from ex-colonies or the arab nations.
I think the Polish like holding up the Turks as an enemy because they are the last group of people the Poles actually defeated. Can't really talk down about the Germans and Russians when they thrice conquered your people in the time after the Turks fled Vienna. Poles are my favorite Eastern European by the way. And not just because they are Catholic. Polish Americans are a pretty down to Earth group and their women are cute and friendly.

What specific regions are Euro-Arabs from? France and Algeria is obvious. But are there many Egyptians?  I deal with a lot of Egyptian and respect their culture and history. In America they are mostly low income and Coptic. But I assume even the Muslim ones have a worldview proud of their land's history of civilization and influence. Meanwhile the Arabian Peninsula has this and nothing else.
https://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/00/28/41/21_big.jpg
uziq
Member
+326|2176
lots of lebanese in france, too, a long connection there.

as you'd expect there's a lot of overlap between the north african maghreb and southern europe.

lots of egyptians in london, though i'm not sure about elsewhere in northern/western europe.

pockets of refugees and immigrants in scandinavia.

large turkish population in the netherlands as well as the aforementioned large populations of 'gasterbeiter' in germany.

i'm sure there's more that i'm missing.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,753|5417
I understand the place of Turks in European consciousness, but I’m curious about the European opinions of Armenians and Kurds. Are their plights reconciled with the way America reconciles with the plight of Yemenis and Palestinians?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4830|eXtreme to the maX
So how about that Chechen cutting the head off a French history teacher?
Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+385|2444
Link?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4830|eXtreme to the maX
Epstein didn't kill himself
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+288|5499|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

So how about that Chechen cutting the head off a French history teacher?
did you like the taste of what we had to be dealing with here since soviet union collapse? still think those "proud people" should be sheltered from persecution by horrible putin?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+385|2444

Dilbert_X wrote:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-terror-attack-paris-samuel-paty-macron-charlie-hebdo-teacher-death-latest-b1098109.html

Also

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54302337

Pakistanis are basically muslim indians.
Well this is what I have been saying for a long time. Once the Muslims reach a certain percentage of the population they start to get into identity politics and all this stuff.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4830|eXtreme to the maX

Shahter wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So how about that Chechen cutting the head off a French history teacher?
did you like the taste of what we had to be dealing with here since soviet union collapse? still think those "proud people" should be sheltered from persecution by horrible putin?
Don't know TBH, muslims seem to be a global problem, Putin isn't exactly a nice fellow.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-10-18 00:25:25)

Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4830|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Well this is what I have been saying for a long time. Once the Muslims reach a certain percentage of the population they start to get into identity politics and all this stuff.
Thats the thing, hipsters like uziq are all for helping them migrate into western countries and giving them every benefit so they can breed like rabbits.
In 30 years when he's subject to sharia law, not allowed to fornicate, drink, take drugs or publish anything but approved theocratic texts he'll wake up too late.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-10-18 00:25:46)

Epstein didn't kill himself
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+288|5499|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So how about that Chechen cutting the head off a French history teacher?
did you like the taste of what we had to be dealing with here since soviet union collapse? still think those "proud people" should be sheltered from persecution by horrible putin?
Don't know TBH, muslims seem to be a global problem
okay then. keep not knowing while heads get chopped off of your teachers.

Putin isn't exactly a nice fellow.
no, he isn't. he seems to know how to deal with people stuck in dark ages though.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+326|2176

Dilbert_X wrote:

Pakistanis are basically muslim indians.
wow guys we are dealing with a real brain box her! how long did the mughal empire rule over most of india? 300 years?
uziq
Member
+326|2176

Superior Mind wrote:

I understand the place of Turks in European consciousness, but I’m curious about the European opinions of Armenians and Kurds. Are their plights reconciled with the way America reconciles with the plight of Yemenis and Palestinians?
europeans widely consider armenians as the victims of genocide. that’s part of common historical understanding here and is uncontroversially put.

with that said i don’t think europeans pay much mind to that part of the world in general. ditto kurds. we understand them as a people who have suffered a lot from imperial/national power politics in the region, but there’s not like plaintive tv appeals or anything.

i’d be interested to know what shahter thinks of georgia and the other small republics also.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-18 00:50:10)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+385|2444
Says a lot about the Russians that they aren't doing anything to save the completely innocent Orthodox Armenians.
uziq
Member
+326|2176
the armenian church is not the same as the russian orthodox one. it’s much older in fact and is properly thought of next to the earliest hellenistic or byzantine forms of christianity. it has its own tradition to the russian church.
Larssen
Member
+35|612

uziq wrote:

the islamic world, particularly pakistan, has a complex relationship with turkey because of its semi-westernization. most people in europe know from, er, obvious close proximity and experience that turkey is pretty moderate -- or at least has been, in better times, before erdogan started stoking old religious and ethnic chauvinisms for political gain.

there are lots of turkish people all over europe. every european citizen and brit will be familiar with the idea that they aren't the same as arabs or even really levantine cultures. turkey joining the EU has been a political hot potato over the years, but mostly just because of the sheer size of the place and the state/structure of their economy. only a small minority of right-wing pundits make fulminating noises about 'islamification'. germany and a bunch of western european countries actively invited in turkish workers in their droves during eras of economic boom and reconstruction.

turkish girls are really beautiful btw. it's actually pretty common to see 'westernized' turkish girls getting berated online by devout pakistani males who think they should somehow be role-models and standard bearers for islamic culture.
Turkey is a little more complicated than that. Outside the progressive bubble of Istanbul and some other places in western anatolia, there's an enormous hinterland of deeply religious conservative turks. While erdogan may have incited them, they were always there and had been chipping away at the liberal-progressive parts of their society immediately following ataturk's death. In the latter half of the 20th century a number of military coups ensured Turkey didn't regress entirely into anti-democratic & religious conservatism, but that 'enlightened' part of the military establishment has been subdued after the failure of the last uprising against Erdogan. Like Putin, he'll probably be dictator for life and is only intent on steering Turkey on an anti-western course. He's also all too keen to prop up ever more religious conservatism if it helps him stay in power.

In northern Europe most of the far right movements are explicitly resentful of the Turkish immigrant population. There's been several clashes in both Germany and the Netherlands with that diaspora. Problem is that these communities are mostly the descendants of immigrants from the aformentioned deeply conservative & religious hinterlands, which didn't quite help integration. They're a very nationalist community, which Erdogan also tries to influence as much as possible, through both religious & nationalist organisations. They have been a great help to him in winning national elections. The Turkish community in northern Europe disproportionately votes Erdogan over any other candidate.

Thankfully, newer generations seem to be more well-adjusted, but regrettably the nationalist tendencies remain.
Larssen
Member
+35|612

Shahter wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So how about that Chechen cutting the head off a French history teacher?
did you like the taste of what we had to be dealing with here since soviet union collapse? still think those "proud people" should be sheltered from persecution by horrible putin?
Shahter, if a society has very high inequality between ethnic groups in both economic & political power, it is much more susceptible to violent outbursts. You can choose persecution, but be aware that this will probably just help incite more violence in the long run.
Larssen
Member
+35|612

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Well this is what I have been saying for a long time. Once the Muslims reach a certain percentage of the population they start to get into identity politics and all this stuff.
Thats the thing, hipsters like uziq are all for helping them migrate into western countries and giving them every benefit so they can breed like rabbits.
In 30 years when he's subject to sharia law, not allowed to fornicate, drink, take drugs or publish anything but approved theocratic texts he'll wake up too late.
Ah yes, the great replacement & eurabia conspiracy, classic Dilbert.

I regret that you're allowed to vote.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+385|2444

Larssen wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Well this is what I have been saying for a long time. Once the Muslims reach a certain percentage of the population they start to get into identity politics and all this stuff.
Thats the thing, hipsters like uziq are all for helping them migrate into western countries and giving them every benefit so they can breed like rabbits.
In 30 years when he's subject to sharia law, not allowed to fornicate, drink, take drugs or publish anything but approved theocratic texts he'll wake up too late.
Ah yes, the great replacement & eurabia conspiracy, classic Dilbert.

I regret that you're allowed to vote.
https://youtu.be/7RpUmvGlNm4?t=40
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4830|eXtreme to the maX

Larssen wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Well this is what I have been saying for a long time. Once the Muslims reach a certain percentage of the population they start to get into identity politics and all this stuff.
Thats the thing, hipsters like uziq are all for helping them migrate into western countries and giving them every benefit so they can breed like rabbits.
In 30 years when he's subject to sharia law, not allowed to fornicate, drink, take drugs or publish anything but approved theocratic texts he'll wake up too late.
Ah yes, the great replacement & eurabia conspiracy, classic Dilbert.

I regret that you're allowed to vote.
Actually I'm required to vote, soon you won't be allowed to.

Seems I'm not the only one concerned
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … ism-france
Epstein didn't kill himself
Larssen
Member
+35|612
Dilbert, you are. What Macron argues is in no way reconcilable with your convictions.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+385|2444
Macron's plan is to just promote moderate Islam which is still a mistake. We need to promote Christianity.
uziq
Member
+326|2176
france has a long history of extremely grisly sectarian violence committed by christians (normally against other christians).

i don't think the republic is very interested in especially promoting christianity or religion of any kind.
Larssen
Member
+35|612
Not to mention the fact that muslim communities have lived in france, specifically paris, for over 100 years.
uziq
Member
+326|2176
and a large and historic jewish community, and a long and uncomfortable history of antisemitism/vichy collaborationism, who would probably have something to say about a christian nation.

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