unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

(Though without huge lists of statistics in front of me), I'm still of the opinion that any theoretical economic boon in Keeping America Open, like Republicans drummed on about, would have been quickly subdued by even more gargantuan numbers contracting and succumbing to the illness.

Yes, it's also tragic that places are having to shut down. Would be really nice if we were a country wealthy enough to keep affected businesses above water while we're trying to save lives, wouldn't it.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
they were worst case scenarios, yes, and people like jay who bragged about ‘understanding modelling’ apparently didn’t understand that any study will generate several projections, not only the worst case one. odd how he focussed almost exclusively on the alarming figure to dismiss all of epidemiological science

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-09 06:55:43)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Anyone still in contact with Jay know whether or not he's eaten humble pie over this? I mean don't get me wrong, I'd much rather the virus hadn't blown up like it did.
Last public facebook post was august 15
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

I hope he's just absorbed in his deck project turned full home renovation and basement excavation.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
probably just went private after macbeth went full gaylord on him.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6663
Let’s all pray for Trump
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Its been pointed out that in 150 tweets Trump han't mentioned his wife or how she is doing with the China virus once.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Also its 9 miles from the White House to Walter Reed, the helicopter was a little unnecessary.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6663

Dilbert_X wrote:

Also its 9 miles from the White House to Walter Reed, the helicopter was a little unnecessary.
Clearly you’ve never been in DC traffic.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
i’ve read somewhere before that the cost of the presidential motorcade by road is simply astronomical and a huge groan from any municipality who have to shoulder its burden. the level of street-by-street security, road closures, disruption to traffic, etc, necessary.

it’s not like the president can crawl traffic light by traffic light, intersection after intersection, with the flow of normal traffic.

another great god-brained engineer comment from dilbert.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
I forgot, the US President is so hated by his own people he can't go out in public except behind 200 guys with guns.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
It's more or less standard for many world leaders, though the security detail of the US president is extra large.

You should look into the security measures at NATO and EU summits... parts of Brussels get locked down entirely. Literally not allowed to be on the streets or outside buildings beyond certain roadblocks.
uziq
Member
+492|3423

Dilbert_X wrote:

I forgot, the US President is so hated by his own people he can't go out in public except behind 200 guys with guns.
well, there are more guns than people in the united states, and it only takes one person.

i think you can forgive a nation who spent 50 years obsessed with a motorcade-assassination for not fucking around.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-11 02:31:05)

uziq
Member
+492|3423
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW


lol
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
I should get round to making a set of Homer glasses for the CEO meetings.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Wear some cat-eye contacts and see if anyone notices.
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
In a slightly different topic: it's entirely fucking stupid that every country has developed its own corona tracking app. On the surface this might make sense because of variation in privacy laws, security requirements etc. But as everyone in the EU is bound by the GDPR ... WHY was there no initiative to develop a comprehensive app at that level? The virus doesn't stop at the borders ffs. We have freedom of movement here too.

Cynically I'm inclined to say some pathetic assholes saw this as 'an opportunity to stimulate local tech' and sabotaged the effectiveness of the whole thing from the start.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-10-12 09:29:44)

uziq
Member
+492|3423
medical data is often extremely sensitive even within national frameworks/regulations.

GDPR applies to businesses collecting tidbits of info on you like your email address. sharing entire medical records, including medical history, pre-existing conditions, sensitive personal information, etc, across a continent, is quite another matter.

i think many people are deservedly quite chary of the idea that a foreign government could look up their medical information.

you are cynical about 'local tech entrepreneur assholes' but then blithely confident that a benign technocratic organization could manage that data safely and effectively. very curious, that.
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
The data is decentralised. That was a requirement to use the underlying apple/google tools. There is no need for all sorts of government data storage to make this work.

The countries that didn't use that method opted for centralised data collection. In the EU it was the UK and France who pursued these models. I believe the UK u-turned after figuring out that their own app wouldn't work well on android and apple devices if your phone was in your pocket.

Google and apple have been in a diplomatic fist fight with the french over this issue. IMO they were right to limit it to local storage as much as possible.

Outside of that GDPR does cover much more than only business data collection. It is a general data protection regulation remember. Govts have to respect it as well, in all sorts of areas.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
yes, of course GDPR pertains to all data, but i mean in most everyday commercial/business uses it does not involve sensitive medical information. data breaches happen all the time and people's medical records are some of the very most severe things to leak or mishandle.

point taken about the underlying apple/google bluetooth-based app. seems to be pretty useless so far as it has been implemented in the UK, in any case.

not to sound too much like dilbert, but the best remedy for this thing is very much the medieval option, which is to stop 'freedom of movement'. that's a market-based ideal and hardly exigent during a lethal pandemic. it's much easier to stop people from crossing borders than it is to encourage 90%+ uptake of a fucking phone app.

europe finds itself in a place where it wants to keep the free movement of labour to sustain its little market utopia, but meanwhile the northern states hardly want to help pay for the southern states' pandemic response. pretty amusing to see, to be honest. there's a direct conflict of the EU's own self-interest, there.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-12 10:28:07)

Larssen
Member
+99|1858
Freedom of movement is the bedrock of the economy. Transport of goods hasn't slowed down a bit during the pandemic. There are also many hundreds of thousands if not a few million who live in border towns while working over the border.

It would be near impossible to stop all traffic of persons while still allowing 'normal' transport - not to mention that reinstating all borders would be prohibitively expensive as well. Also consider the uncertainty over how long such a close would have to be.

An EU app would have by far been the easiest, lowest cost solution. Even accounting for all the inevitable bureaucracy. Sadly though I'm sure governments insisted on control for whatever reason. I only see some ironic humour in the fact that they got blindsided by google & apple.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-10-12 10:37:40)

uziq
Member
+492|3423
transport of goods absolutely slowed down during the pandemic. what are you talking about? the shuttering of factories and closing down of china in the first few months had a HUGE impact on global supply lines. even apple, who you seem to like namedropping in this context, were hugely affected by the pandemic. if you wanted a new macbook with any factory modifications, you had to wait 2-3 months!

and, yes, well, as long as its 'the bedrock' of the EU system, you're going to have vectors of contagion. it's really that simple.

at this point i think the horses have bolted from the stable on phone apps. people have lost faith in the government's ability to even organize a centralized response. uptake of a 'universal' track+tracing app will be met with recalcitrance and skepticism. and, as we've seen time and time again, all it takes is a 10-15% of covid denialists to handily spread it around.
Larssen
Member
+99|1858

uziq wrote:

transport of goods absolutely slowed down during the pandemic. what are you talking about? the shuttering of factories and closing down of china in the first few months had a HUGE impact on global supply lines. even apple, who you seem to like namedropping in this context, were hugely affected by the pandemic. if you wanted a new macbook with any factory modifications, you had to wait 2-3 months!

and, yes, well, as long as its 'the bedrock' of the EU system, you're going to have vectors of contagion. it's really that simple.

at this point i think the horses have bolted from the stable on phone apps. people have lost faith in the government's ability to even organize a centralized response. uptake of a 'universal' track+tracing app will be met with recalcitrance and skepticism. and, as we've seen time and time again, all it takes is a 10-15% of covid denialists to handily spread it around.
Transport IN the EU had no reason to slow down much. Only in the first few months did some countries pursue a total lockdown, but it was still possible to travel most places regardless. Yes, China was affected but I wasn't making that point at all. We have no freedom of movement with China. You need a visa. A plane and 10 hrs to spare are also needed. Here if I drive a few hours in any direction I'll be in a different country. The fact that this creates potential vectors of disease is entirely my point.

As to your last paragraph: sadly true.

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